Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/23/2020 at 7:51 PM, chessman said:

So I ask you the same question, how are those numbers calculated? 

 

I thought it was well known, but perhaps not.
 

 

One would assume that the certifying Dr would put it on the death certificate and that information would be passed to the relevant authority.

Whether it was death caused by Corona or death with Corona would lie with the Dr.

[chessman]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One would assume that the certifying Dr would put it on the death certificate and that information would be passed to the relevant authority.

Whether it was death caused by Corona or death with Corona would lie with the Dr.

 But this is not correct at all.

 

But we were talking about flu deaths so perhaps you did not understand the context.

[Maestro]

Removed an unintelligible post.

[Bender Rodriguez]

21 hours ago, farang51 said:

Hindsight? Maybe for the Swedes; almost every other country could see the problem - "almost" refers to Boris Johnson and Donald Trump that needed to see the big numbers before they understood what exponential means. Brazil's Bolsaro still doesn't understand.

 

 

Occam's razor would indicate that the virus did not spread in Japan rather than indicating the miracle that Japanese people get infected yet somehow do not die from the virus.

 

No, I cannot explain the few deaths in Japan and some other countries; but rather than suspecting miracles, I will wait for the scientists to find a reason.

 

Japan drink green tea like people drink water

 

full of anti oxidants

 

Japan people eat a lot of fish ... omega 3 & vitamin D

 

the green tea theory is also, why after 2 atomic bombs, dropped by the friendly good USA (war crimes as it was on civilian population), not so many died of irradiation...

 

believe it or don't

 

vitamin D in Thailand, aka FREE if you are in the sun, my theory why Thailand has low death numbers, so the whole lockdown & killing the economy over what now ?  less people that die daily on the roads, mostly out of STUPIDITY...

[Bkk Brian]

Making comparisons between country approaches is always difficult but Alberta Canada decided to do just that with Sweden's herd immunity approach:

 

“Each region has its own risk-factors as well as its own needs,” Dr. Craig Jenne, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Calgary, said Monday. “As a result, one reopening or one restriction plan will not work for all areas of the world.”

 

“My point is not that there is one right or wrong way to deal with the pandemic — but rather that there are costs to every choice,” she said. “In Sweden, there has been a cost of higher death rates. In Alberta, as elsewhere around the world, there has been a cost of temporary restrictions on some freedoms.”

 

According to the province, between March 1 and May 18, Sweden saw double the number of cases per 10,000 people, as well as 12 times the number of deaths.

For ICU cases, per 10,000 people, Sweden had to treat 18 times more patients.

 

Alberta Health went so far as to post case comparisons between the province and Sweden. https://globalnews.ca/news/6983637/sweden-versus-alberta-covid-19-restrictions/

[Susco]

Meanwhile in Sweden where they have everything so well under control

 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post (baiting)

[Bender Rodriguez]

super lockdown in BELGIUM ....

 

nr 1 in death per million people in the world

 

if you discard those mini state golf course seize "countries"

 

they locked down economy, schools, travel, people ...

 

compared to Sweden, about same amount of population (10-11 million)

 

 

OLD SICK PEOPLE have more chances to die if they have chronic diseases, in every country

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Bender Rodriguez

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

super lockdown in BELGIUM ....

 

nr 1 in death per million people in the world

 

if you discard those mini state golf course seize "countries"

 

they locked down economy, schools, travel, people ...

 

compared to Sweden, about same amount of population (10-11 million)

 

 

OLD SICK PEOPLE have more chances to die if they have chronic diseases, in every country

 

 

The lockdown was not complete in Belgium and the main virus spread happened before it started.

 

Again, ignored is the population density, which is 15 times greater in Belgium than in Sweden.

 

 

[farang51]

13 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

super lockdown in BELGIUM ....

 

nr 1 in death per million people in the world

You cannot compare the number of deaths in Belgium with the numbers from other countries; they count the deaths quite different. Other countries only count deaths when people are confirmed to have the virus; Belgium also counts suspected cases.

 

[farang51]

By the way, after a dip for a few days, Sweden is again the country with most deaths per million per day. No other country has had this many deaths per day at the same late point in the epidemic.  Also, Sweden will overtake France in most deaths per million today or within a day or two.

[Bender Rodriguez]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

The lockdown was not complete in Belgium and the main virus spread happened before it started.

seriously ? have family overthere ?

 

you could not even travel to the next small town to see your parents or get fined, aka,needed a good reason to go out for grocery or pharmacy, but apparently you know better

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

sorry but OLD SICK PEOPLE live in retirement places, all over W-Europe...

 

Sweden-Belgium :  half the deaths per million and NO LOCKDOWN and economy is alive and well, they use THEIR BRAIN, still have a job, socialize, no QR bul....p

 

I say, this whole panic is a wet dream for every banana republic, but even the west or specially the west lost their heads with FAKE miscalculated 2 million DEATH in USA and 500.000 in UK ... this is what caused the lockdown and we don't have anything (as expected) around these numbers !

 

USA : predicted: 2.000.000 death VS 102.197

UK : predicted : 500.000 death vs 37.460

 

 

Have you any idea what the deaths would have been without the lockdowns? 

[yuyiinthesky]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:33 PM, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

Japan drink green tea like people drink water

 

full of anti oxidants

 

Japan people eat a lot of fish ... omega 3 & vitamin D

 

the green tea theory is also, why after 2 atomic bombs, dropped by the friendly good USA (war crimes as it was on civilian population), not so many died of irradiation...

Actually, this has a scientific background:

 

From a Japan school study:

„Our findings thus suggest that the consumption of 1–5 cups/d of green tea may prevent influenza infection in children.“

 

Quote

Abstract

Green tea is known to contain antiviral components that prevent influenza infection. A limited number of adult clinical studies have been undertaken, but there is a paucity of clinical evidence concerning children. We conducted an observational study to determine the association between green tea consumption and the incidence of influenza infection among schoolchildren. Anonymous questionnaire surveys were undertaken twice during the influenza season from November 2008 to February 2009 (endemic seasonal type A influenza infection); each survey was conducted for 2663 pupils across all elementary schools in Kikugawa City (a tea plantation area), Japan. Each questionnaire was completed and submitted by 2050 pupils (response rate, 77.0%; age range, 6–13 y). The adjusted OR associated with the consumption of green tea for ≥6 d/wk compared with < 3 d/wk was 0.60 [(95% CI = 0.39–0.92); P = 0.02] in cases of influenza confirmed by the antigen test. Meanwhile, the adjusted OR inversely associated with the consumption of 1 cup/d to < 3 cups/d (1 cup = 200 mL) and 3–5 cups/d compared with <1 cup/d were 0.62 [(95% CI = 0.41–0.95); P = 0.03] and 0.54 [(95% CI = 0.30–0.94); P = 0.03], respectively. However, there was no significant association with the consumption of >5 cups/d. Our findings thus suggest that the consumption of 1–5 cups/d of green tea may prevent influenza infection in children.

Source: https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/141/10/1862/4630528
 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by yuyiinthesky

[yuyiinthesky]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Again, ignored is the population density, which is 15 times greater in Belgium than in Sweden.

Again, ignored is that the population density in Sweden‘s cities, such as Stockholm, is very comparable to other European cities, such as London.

[chessman]

34 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

USA : predicted: 2.000.000 death VS 102.197

UK : predicted : 500.000 death vs 37.460

Predicted in a model that stated explicitly that those numbers would never happen. 

[Logosone]

Hospitalisations per day falling nicely in Sweden.

 

Also the deaths per day curve going down rather well.

 

Good job, Sweden.

 

 

[chessman]

26 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Again, ignored is that the population density in Sweden‘s cities, such as Stockholm, is very comparable to other European cities, such as London.

Yes and Stockholm has a very comparable mortality rate to other European cities, such as London.

 

thus by following this line of argument you are agreeing and saying that you think population density is really important and it is. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by chessman

[farang51]

42 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

Sweden-Belgium :  half the deaths per million and NO LOCKDOWN and economy is alive and well, they use THEIR BRAIN, still have a job, socialize, no QR bul....p

Did you not understand that you cannot compare Sweden and Belgium? In Belgium they count deaths that no other country counts. Like, if two persons in a care home die and had the virus then every death in that care home is counted as a corona death.

 

Think again about the Swedish economy being alive and well. The European Commision expects a 6,1 per cent decline in Sweden this year. Six countries are expected to do better, including Denmark with a 5,9 per cent decline. The average for Europe is a 7,4 per cent decline with Greece, Spain and Italy close to a 10 per cent decline.

 

Quote

 

USA : predicted: 2.000.000 death VS 102.197

UK : predicted : 500.000 death vs 37.460

 

You do know that the basis for that prediction was if they did nothing? And that they did offer other numbers if they tried to stop the virus from spreading?

[Susco]

49 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Hospitalisations per day falling nicely in Sweden.

 

Also the deaths per day curve going down rather well.

 

Good job, Sweden.

 

 

Are there 2 Sweden in the world?

 

[chessman]

57 minutes ago, Susco said:

Are there 2 Sweden in the world?

 

Logosone shared a rather misleading graph about deaths that shows the number who died on each day. But it often takes 7 days (or more) for a death to enter the system so the most recent days always show a really low number. Thus Logosone’s graph shows 10 deaths on the 25th May but that number will already have increased and will increase tomorrow and the next day and the day after that as deaths are reported and confirmed as due to COVID.

 

it is not the first time he has used this type of graph.
 

the number of hospitalisations are going down and is very strong evidence that Sweden is over the worst of it now. This is very good news.

[Susco]

4 minutes ago, chessman said:

Logosone shared a rather misleading graph about deaths that shows the number who died on each day. But it often takes 7 days (or more) for a death to enter the system so the most recent days always show a really low number. Thus Logosone’s graph shows 10 deaths on the 25th May but that number will already have increased and will increase tomorrow and the next day and the day after that as deaths are reported and confirmed as due to COVID.

 

it is not the first time he has used this type of graph.
 

the number of hospitalisations are going down and is very strong evidence that Sweden is over the worst of it now. This is very good news.

Something probably going over my head here, but I thought deaths by day are deaths by day.

 

From what I can see on this page, looks to me that Sweden has peaked 1 month ago, but in the past few days is rapidly increasing again.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

 

 

[vermin on arrival]

18 minutes ago, Susco said:

Something probably going over my head here, but I thought deaths by day are deaths by day.

 

From what I can see on this page, looks to me that Sweden has peaked 1 month ago, but in the past few days is rapidly increasing again.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

 

 

Yeah but when you look at the graph you can see a number of spikes but it looks like they are on the downward slope of the curve.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Again, ignored is that the population density in Sweden‘s cities, such as Stockholm, is very comparable to other European cities, such as London.

Just change the parameters to suit, it's OK.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Hospitalisations per day falling nicely in Sweden.

 

Also the deaths per day curve going down rather well.

 

Good job, Sweden.

 

 

source data?? HP??

[chessman]

27 minutes ago, Susco said:

Something probably going over my head here, but I thought deaths by day are deaths by day.

The number in your graph and on Worldometers shows the announced number of deaths. Today that was 46. But those 46 didn’t all die yesterday. Some would have died yesterday, some the day before, some the day before that and so on.

 

Logosone’s graph shows the number of people confirmed to have died on each specific day. This will underestimate the most recent days because often deaths will take time to be confirmed. Thus his graph shows 10 deaths on the 25th of May but more deaths will be announced for that day in the next week. The final number will show that many more people died on the 25th of May.

 

 

[Kinnock]

On 5/16/2020 at 12:27 PM, simple1 said:

Time for people to catch up with what's actually currently happening in Sweden. Sweden's per capita death rate from Covid-19 is among the highest in the world, Sweden is also facing a bad economic outcome due to Covid.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/sweden-coronavirus-per-capita-death-rate-among-highest-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-sweden-economy-to-contract-as-severely-as-the-rest-of-europe.html

 

 

Most of Sweden's fatalities are in care homes - so unrelated to a lockdown or not .... and their per capita rate is no worse than many other countries.  The politicians are never going to admit they succumbed to media induced fear, and the press are determined to keep up their fear campaign as it drives their click and readership rates.

 

[farang51]

14 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Most of Sweden's fatalities are in care homes - so unrelated to a lockdown or not .... and their per capita rate is no worse than many other countries. 

 

I would hardly call four or five countries "many other countries". Belgium is leading; however, you cannot compare the numbers from Belgium with numbers from other countries as they count suspected cases as well. Then there is Spain, the UK, Italy and France with more deaths per capita than Sweden. Sweden will overtake France in a day or two.

 

Sweden is leading in daily deaths from the virus, and not even the worst-hit countries had more deaths per day at the point of the epidemic where Sweden is now (+70 days since 1 death per 100.000).

Edited May 28, 2020 by farang51

[chessman]

20 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Most of Sweden's fatalities are in care homes - so unrelated to a lockdown or not ....

This doesn’t make sense. Care homes have staff and if there is no lockdown then those staff are more likely to get Covid and spread it in the care home. It is true the system in Sweden made this worse with agency workers employed in multiple Care homes and often working for hourly wages so not wanting to call in sick.

 

it is actually one of the best arguments for a lockdown, Sweden have had less care home outbreaks since they introduced stricter regulations. If they would have locked down for a month to learn more about the disease, who it affects and the way it spreads, they would have probably introduced similar regulations but with a lot less deaths than they have now.

[utalkin2me]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Have you any idea what the deaths would have been without the lockdowns? 

Maybe similar to a country's that did not lock down at all, like South Korea. Or Austria, a country who has been easing lockdowns for weeks and seen few, if any, ill effects. 

 

It seems to be ignored by most of you, but there is a pattern where countries show very similar curves in infections, whether they locked down or not. In fact, there is even some stats from US states showing lockdowns have had no effect at all. That trend is also being observed between countries. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by utalkin2me