All my little fish stays stays are charged in advance, on arrival or secured by a crest card on file, no chance of skipping out. They failed to secure their money with a whale, sucks to be them. 

2 hours ago, Canuck1966 said:

????

Not sure the Germans are going to listen to a dictator about some spurious claim

They did before.

 

????

 

 

11 minutes ago, timendres said:

We are now beginning to see the ripples. The lockdowns were the stone tossed into the water. The ripples have now begin to spread. Like dominos, this absurdity is going to cause waves of economic spectacles that are going to surprise many.

It is going to get real nasty once the sociopaths and mentally unstable, money worshipping lunatics understand the true gravity of the situation. 

 

Listening to Motorhead - Brotherhood of Man. 

Posts have been removed. Carefully consider what you post in this topic. The subject is about TUI, Thai hoteliers and tour companies, and the troubles each party faces.

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

Actually i think this relates to customers who DID stay in Thai hotels in the first quarter. So TUI have been paid but won't pass the money on to the Thai hotels. Terrible sharp practice.

Yes that's how I understood reports from Germany.Tui like many is in trouble, however a contract may be enforceable, if we thinj back to the abandoned 1997 projects or teh Saxona debacle.

Of course should, if when any firm becomes insolvent especially in a different jurisdiction it becomes hard to "get blood out of a stone".

 

There seems to be a resentment by some here against Thai hoteliers inwith  my experience provide excellent comfort and value compared to many other places, albeit with some safety issues.I recall a 4 star resort where 2 bare wires 3 m of ground hung above a bathroom mirror , of course having living here many years was unsurprised.

 

The real issue is Thailand needs tourists, TUI may fold but the unique attractions of LOS will continue.

There may be some restrictions, but these will likley be similar in competing destinations .

Europeans may have less disposable income and reluctant to do long haul at any price but Indians and Chinese may fill the gaps.

 

The othe rmajor factor will be the exchange rates versus the source country relative to other choices like Bali langkawi Mauritius for thse who want a tropical beach or pattaya who want more bang for ther buck.

 

 

Now I wonder if the shoe were  on the other  foot, a  bit  like customer service here when you buy something and it breaks 2  days  later

I would like to praise the Red Planet Hotel Group. We always stay at Red Planet in Asoke. We made a booking but couldn't go cos of the virus. They returned our money. Not a big amount but it does show sincerity to customers.

Can just Imagine Prayut calling the German Government.   I presume his first words would be 'Do you know who i am ? '

2 hours ago, Zikomat said:

Why should TUI pay out anything if they know that their business is essentially over? The one who is left with the cash at the moment of crisis - wins. 

Thai hoteliers provided a service and should be paid in full for that service, I see on this forum many members don't have an issue with what TUI is doing with hoteliers but do have an issue with VFS taking their money and not providing any service

Karma

Thais being swindled by foreigners? Are they? On Thai's past reputation I doubt it.

Is it just a ploy to be paid at a bad time for hotels in Thailand?

If the case was tried in Thailand the verdict would be they should be paid. If it was tried in Germany there maybe an opposite verdict.

As Thailand persists in their habits of cheating foreigners at a local level, a police level, and a government level, they should expect the same treatment from foreigners.

 

4 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

Deal with it! Most of us are in the same situation. Why should they pay if nobody was staying... Idiodic to think otherwise. They clearly have to pay their customers back. Its the right thing to do you greedy pigs. 

Ridiculous statement. This company was asked to pay their usual 30-day terms up until March 20th. or thereafter. The tourists already used up the accommodation.

 

TUI is not being asked to pay for cancellations. All the hotels allowed cancellations after that date without penalties. TUI must pay the money owed for customers who came, paid TUI and went back home, already.

 

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I edited this as I have done a bit of research and it appears TUI is in big trouble.

 

May 11th - Announced measures to curb COVID-19 transmission when things get back to normal

May 12th - No travel until 12th June 2020

May 12th - Announced 8000 job cuts

May 15th - Critical travel advice issued including refund credits with bonus incentive or cash refund

May 16th - TUI announce doctor's notes required for refunds

May 18th - Thai hoteliers appeal for help after being stiffed

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for payment if I was a Thai hotelier. It's going to get very interesting how bad this crisis is going to be for the Thai tourism industry. Personally I think everyone is underestimating the situation... this is like an apocalypse for tourism and that is 20% or so of Thai GDP.

I agree. But it's probably more like 30% of Thai GDP when all the gray area stuff and sex trade is included. 

6 minutes ago, CuriousKen said:

Thais being swindled by foreigners? Are they? On Thai's past reputation I doubt it.

Is it just a ploy to be paid at a bad time for hotels in Thailand?

If the case was tried in Thailand the verdict would be they should be paid. If it was tried in Germany there maybe an opposite verdict.

As Thailand persists in their habits of cheating foreigners at a local level, a police level, and a government level, they should expect the same treatment from foreigners.

 

Clearly you didn't read the whole thread as Tui is trying it on worldwide

Tui Group defers 75% of winter hotel payments

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/369853/tui-group-defers-75-of-winter-hotel-payments

Who knows as Tui is a British-German company maybe your preferred solution is for the Thai Goverment to ban all European flights both outgoing and incoming until Tui has resolved the payment issue.

I am sure that would bring the matter to a quick conclusion

7 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

I agree. But it's probably more like 30% of Thai GDP when all the gray area stuff and sex trade is included. 

If you talk to all the TAT experts here in quieter times more like 5%.

 

4.5% being European expats.

the hoteliers should be taking this pause in business to go after all the condos that have been illegally renting rooms without license. Now is the time to pressure the government into putting some real teeth in the penalties against the owners and the renters. The lost revenue in the last few years would be considerably more than the 2 billion imo..

Tough luck, nothing else. No business = no pay. Where, do these hoteliers think, would that money come from. The customers did not come and hence did not pay and TUI is in between. 

5 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

Deal with it! Most of us are in the same situation. Why should they pay if nobody was staying... Idiodic to think otherwise. They clearly have to pay their customers back. Its the right thing to do you greedy pigs. 

Who says nobody stayed?

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Thai hoteliers provided a service and should be paid in full for that service, I see on this forum many members don't have an issue with what TUI is doing with hoteliers but do have an issue with VFS taking their money and not providing any service

Karma

TUI goes bankrupt in the near future. That is the most probable scenario. From this perspective, do you still think that they SHOULD pay up? 

If the claim is for time already spent at the hotels by tourists, then TUI is obligated to pay for those stays, not a satang more or a satang less. The hotels should be instigating recovery action against TUI through the German legal system, NOT writing to the PM.

Perhaps post a Rat A Tui

26 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

TUI goes bankrupt in the near future. That is the most probable scenario. From this perspective, do you still think that they SHOULD pay up? 

If they don't pay money that they owe they wouldn't get any future business and any  hotel doing business with them in the future is going to demand money up front as their current action shows they can't be trusted to honor a contract

Is Tui planning to default and not repay the German taxpayers 

TUI AG secured a 1.8 billion-euro ($2 billion) loan from state-run KfW bank, in one of the biggest bailouts in Germany so far.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/tui-gets-2-billion-bailout-after-pandemic-halts-tour-activities

No surprise Here

Bailed-out TUI's bosses refuse to accept a pay cut despite furloughing 11,000 UK staff

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8211035/Bailed-TUIs-bosses-refuse-accept-pay-cut-despite-furloughing-11-000-UK-staff.html

TUI also run an airline and all planes will have been grouded for the past several weeks.

 

It's tough. I dont know the German legal system but it wouldn't surprise me if they file for bankruptcy or administration in the near future and let the  accountants sort out what should be paid to whom. ANd if that happns it won't be 100%. Maybe the hotels would do better to accept the offered 25% now and at least get something in the bank in the hope there's more to come.

 

Im surprised we're not hearing similar from the Scandinavian Thomas Cook survivors, Ving and Tjaerborg.

Ask the Chinese,it’s their fault

7 hours ago, seajae said:

makes it hard if the people can no longer travel here due to covid regulations & are not going to stay in the hotels all due to the virus, why should they pay for something they are cannot use, 25% for nothing  is better than getting no money at all. I know I wouldnt pay if travel etc was banned but if the travel company has been paid it should be refunding the customers before paying the hotels anyway

Is this for rooms already taken 

When you can't pay you can't pay.  Thomas Cook went belly up too.  All that money and bills - gone.  It happens.  

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

TUI also run an airline and all planes will have been grouded for the past several weeks.

 

It's tough. I dont know the German legal system but it wouldn't surprise me if they file for bankruptcy or administration in the near future and let the  accountants sort out what should be paid to whom. ANd if that happns it won't be 100%. Maybe the hotels would do better to accept the offered 25% now and at least get something in the bank in the hope there's more to come.

 

Im surprised we're not hearing similar from the Scandinavian Thomas Cook survivors, Ving and Tjaerborg.

German bankruptcy law is pretty much like UK, US etc bakruptcy.

 

And yeah, they'll likely file for bankruptcy, then a bankrupcty, then a court appointing bankruptcy trustee will decide what happens with the remaining assets. Usually the oldest debt will be repaid first and that's likely not thai hotel debt, until there's nothing left... 

 

It hurts but it's always the same and happens plenty, if there's no money then there's no money and debt can't be repaid, might indeed be the better idea to take a haircut and get paid the 25% first, better than nothing.

Pretty much the same i would except to happen to Thai airways.

Things will only deteriorate with a constantly rising Baht.

German bankruptcy law like most put crditors in a line

 

First to get paid understandably are the insolvency administrators(how else would you induce skilled accountants otherwise).

 

Secured creditors the taxmen probably eat most of the rest , if any crumbs the unsecured creditors may just get cents on the Euro.

 

So whatever the merits, justice of the contracts a haircut may be better than nothing, a fine judgement.Perhaps the locals should reciprocate.

 

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Many of the bookings are for January and February. For those bookings customers have paid Tui in full, customers stayed for the full period but Tui is not paying.

 

 

For once the Thais have been scammed.

 

Good, Karma hurts.

1 hour ago, Blumpie said:

When you can't pay you can't pay.  Thomas Cook went belly up too.  All that money and bills - gone.  It happens.  

Thomas Cook didn't received a huge bailout

TUI AG secured a 1.8 billion-euro ($2 billion) loan from state-run KfW bank, in one of the biggest bailouts in Germany so far.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/tui-gets-2-billion-bailout-after-pandemic-halts-tour-activities