House building questions

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Respectfully, I believe you should read my posts again as I didn't say I used Concrete/ceramic tiles, your confused, easy to refer to either of my posts, @ #7 and #11, I said cement tiles.

Cement can not be used to make tiles by itself, it must be combined with sand to make mortar, or sand and a larger aggregate to make concrete. So respectfully you don’t know what you have As you don’t have cement tiles (though cement is part of them).

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Thermal Emittance – this is the ability to disperse or give off heat rather than retain it, and that is exactly what cement roof tiles do better than other roofing material on the market today. In fact, it is proven up to 86% thermal emittance when compared to asphalt shingles.

Again you are confused. To be able to emit the material has to have a higher thermal mass and absorb heat, so as to have a higher temperature than the surrounds (second law of thermodynamics) [storage heaters use this]

White steel reflects the majority of the IR it receives and has a low thermal mass so makes a better roofing material from the point of view of heat gain.

 

Asphalt shingles are virtually unknown in Thailand so using them as a reference is of not much use.

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Cement can not be used to make tiles by itself, it must be combined with sand to make mortar, or sand and a larger aggregate to make concrete. So respectfully you don’t know what you have As you don’t have cement tiles (though cement is part of them).

 

Again you are confused. To be able to emit the material has to have a higher thermal mass and absorb heat, so as to have a higher temperature than the surrounds (second law of thermodynamics) [storage heaters use this]

White steel reflects the majority of the IR it receives and has a low thermal mass so makes a better roofing material from the point of view of heat gain.

 

Asphalt shingles are virtually unknown in Thailand so using them as a reference is of not much use.

If you go to #27 you can see what roof tiles I have on the roof.

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

If you go to #27 you can see what roof tiles I have on the roof.

I have, impossible to say from the pictures.

[4MyEgo]

22 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have, impossible to say from the pictures.

Charcoal flat cement roof tiles 

[KhaoYai]

Regarding the roof, if like so many, you go for the cheaper type of roof i.e. tin or fake tiles, you may well have problems with it in the future. If that happens and you decide to change it to a tiled roof, you'll be in for a shock.  The structure used to support a tin roof is normally not strong enough to carry tiles so you'll end up having to replace the whole lot. Don't skimp on the roof, its false economy.

[superal]

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

You can get the bricks like that now. I see them in some builders merchants. Ten years ago you could not when I was building my own house.

You can see the post in the cavity, its also got the reinforcing bars cast in that tie into the brickwork. That's important.

 

Cavity on the outer walls helps to reduce the heat and very significant in my opinion. I also put a cavity on one of the inner walls of bathrooms for getting most of the water pipework fitted without having to chase out the walls.  

Remember to seal all holes to cavities. Rats will get in there if they can. Put rat poison in before closing off. They chew any cables, so just in case always use proper pipe conduits in cavities for wiring / cables and don't leave any open sections of cable.

 

For roof steelwork (C Channels) get the correct grade according to design.

The markings on the channels here state a code size that does not reflect it is the correct thickness.

The thais have normally have three thicknesses for the code size. Full size, medium and normal. If i recall correctly Normal is about half the design thickness, so only a third to a quarter of the strength. That's why you see bowed roofs.

I had to reject what I was given initially and specially order full size. They do not cheat you on price, You pay by the steel weight. Check the weight is correct for the code size of the design.

Check that reinforcing is full size. Stockists have seconds that are cheaper and are thinner than code. Thais will buy the cheapest. 

Thanks Jo ,      I would have thought that the two walls would be tied together with galvanised wall ties as per European spec  at about 900 mm spacing . Is the post the only tie cos I cannot see any others ?  Also I would have thought that the post would be set into the inner wall and flush with the blocks for plastering . The picture seems to show the brickwork notched out to take the post , is that right ? 

Thanks for some good info .

[jojothai]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Thanks Jo ,      I would have thought that the two walls would be tied together with galvanised wall ties as per European spec  at about 900 mm spacing . Is the post the only tie cos I cannot see any others ?  Also I would have thought that the post would be set into the inner wall and flush with the blocks for plastering . The picture seems to show the brickwork notched out to take the post , is that right ? 

Thanks for some good info .

I have not seen them using wall ties in houses here. There are usually the bars from the concete frame tied into the blockwork and brickwork.

They are are regular centers  vertically, off hand i cant remember perhaps about 2 or 3 foot. Then depending on the size of panel you also need vertical reinforcing. I think that only goes on inner skin (you dont want the wall falling inward) , bars go through the hollows of the blocks.

The local builder i had in farming community town knew what was required. Just as he knew what welding to do between the precast floor planks. I had no idea on that.

At the time 10 years ago i managed to find some thai building work diagrams showing the normal rules for walls. Cant remember where i got them from. 

May have kept a photo. I will have a check on my pc later.

Edited July 1, 2020 by jojothai
Correction

[jojothai]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Also I would have thought that the post would be set into the inner wall and flush with the blocks for plastering . The picture seems to show the brickwork notched out to take the post , is that right ? 

Thanks for some good info .

The inside is normally flush with the post if its 200mm posts. Although it doesnt have to be, if the posts are on the line of the inner walls.

Outside notched is ok a far as i am aware provided you can still fit the ties from the post to the wall joint.

I think it Looks better if the wall is continuous as on the photo for exposed brick.

Edited July 1, 2020 by jojothai
Add detail

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, superal said:

Brickwork looks good , are they UK size brick because I have only seen the small Thai bricks here . Did a Thai do the brickwork ?  Also in pic one is that a concrete post sat in the cavity ?

 

If I remember right slightly smaller than a UK brick, they are fired bricks from a company in Bangkok.

The house is built with the normal concrete pillars and the internal walls flush with the inside surface of the pillar. They cut the bricks to fit around the 200mm pillars, ended up with overall wall thickness of about 230mm. All done by Thai/Burmese builders.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, jojothai said:

You can get the bricks like that now. I see them in some builders merchants. Ten years ago you could not when I was building my own house.

The bricks have been on the market more than 10 years. It is over 11 years since I sourced them and the company had a well established website.

[sandyf]

22 minutes ago, jojothai said:

I have not seen them using wall ties in houses here. There are usually the bars from the concete frame tied into the blockwork and brickwork.

It depends on the design but there is not the same need here for wall ties as the window frames and door openings are formed from concrete and tied to inner and outer walls.

[Mama Noodle]

Most local towns have a local building supplier that carries the basics like rebar, sand, stone, cement and DELIVER and do so on a credit account but you have to set it up. The “finishes” like toilets and tile can be found there too but shopping around is the best option as that’s where you’re gonna see the biggest monetary hit. 
 

As for roofing, In my opinion blue scope metal roofing is the best but you have to roll out fiberglass insulation above the gyprock ceiling to both keep your rooms cooler and deaden the rain noise. Doing this works out cheaper than heavy cement tile roofing that’s popular here because it requires less roofing support structure and cools off faster when the sun goes down. 
 

Tile roofs are like massive heat sinks that continue to radiate heat well after the sun goes down.  
 

Spend the money for full roof insulation and good quality windows and doors. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. 

[BTB1977]

A good guy I know just got done building a 4 million baht for his lovely wife . Been together for 12 years married for 3 . He got to live in the completed house for 2 months.  Than her 2 unemployed sons moved in and expected him to pay for cell phone bill's, gas for motorcycle and so on. The 20 something sons got extremely mouthy with him calling him names.  He said f¥€k it and left with the car and some clothes and back to Australia after 20 years here. 

    So when I read " we have some land " , I just shake my head and think what la la land do some people live in. 

I lost count of how many have lost their homes or shops they bought for their wife's or girlfriends. 

    

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Charcoal flat cement roof tiles 

So as I said concrete storage heater, fine aggregate and sand but still concrete.

 

But your roof, your money, your choice.

 

My choice is white colorbond.

Edited July 1, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[carlyai]

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So as I said concrete storage heater, fine aggregate and sand but still concrete.

 

But your roof, your money, your choice.

 

My choice is white colorbond.

There was a good reason all the older houses in Australian roof's were made of red tiles. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

There was a good reason all the older houses in Australian roof's were made of red tiles. 

There are good reasons why zinc/aluminium alloy-coated mild steel is one of the most used roofing materials in Australia today.

Edited July 2, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[sezze]

14 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are good reasons why zinc/aluminium alloy-coated mild steel is one of the most used roofing materials in Australia today.

I agree 100% , this roof material is by far better then cement/clay tiles . Available in any length ( upto 11 m if im correct , but might depend on the shop , since they form it from a roll in the workshop ) , many colors , thickness , style , extremely lightweight ( saves money on roof steel ) , cools down very fast at night , absolutely water/wind /weather-proof . I got it on my roof for now 8-9y , absolutely faultless .

[carlyai]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are good reasons why zinc/aluminium alloy-coated mild steel is one of the most used roofing materials in Australia today.

Yes, too many contemporary people that don't appreciate the sophistication and pleasure a beautiful, old, rustic looking roof presents. How it blends in beautifully to the old world charm of up-country Thailand and K uchinari, gateway to Isaan. 

And the beneficial thermal mass is the envey of metal roof owners. ????  

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, carlyai said:

There was a good reason all the older houses in Australian roof's were made of red tiles. 

not sure that was a good reason, other than that was all that was available. ????

[sezze]

19 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Yes, too many contemporary people that don't appreciate the sophistication and pleasure a beautiful, old, rustic looking roof presents. How it blends in beautifully to the old world charm of up-country Thailand and K uchinari, gateway to Isaan. 

And the beneficial thermal mass is the envey of metal roof owners. ????  

Thermal benefit , weight benefit , cost benefit , 100% leak free benefit .

I absolutely agree that some roof tiles look really yummy , but the downsides are way way worse then steel roof . If you plan on multimillion house and can find a good builder , ok go for the tiles , otherwise steel roof beats it 100% .

[carlyai]

27 minutes ago, Artisi said:

not sure that was a good reason, other than that was all that was available. ????

I did read (somewhere) that RED was the best roof colour.

And besides, it makes TR11's and 111's and Alpines go faster. ????

[rumak]

On 6/30/2020 at 1:03 PM, Surelynot said:

Do seriously know what you are doing? If not....don't do it....rent.

C'mon,  did anyone of us know what we were doing ?  LOL

 

even now, i'm going to move to another area ( once again ! )

I know i should rent..................... but 

 

best advice i would give is keep it simple.   One can build a house for under a million,

but so many want that dream house     4 to 10 million baht    

later the nightmares

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, sezze said:

I agree 100% , this roof material is by far better then cement/clay tiles . Available in any length ( upto 11 m if im correct , but might depend on the shop , since they form it from a roll in the workshop ) , many colors , thickness , style , extremely lightweight ( saves money on roof steel ) , cools down very fast at night , absolutely water/wind /weather-proof . I got it on my roof for now 8-9y , absolutely faultless .

You can get longer lengths as the forming tools can be mounted on a trailer, I know of an example in Bangkok where the lengths are about 22 metres, only that length because of the roof size.

 

You can go as long as you can handle if your roof is big enough to justify the cost of bringing in the forming tools.

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, carlyai said:

I did read (somewhere) that RED was the best roof colour.

And besides, it makes TR11's and 111's and Alpines go faster. ????

????????????????

[Mama Noodle]

Really, the only reason to go with a tile roof over metal is aesthetics. 
 

They do look ok and the flat ones look nice but that’s it. Appearances. 
 

Locals think that the tile roofs are “better” and metal roofs are “poor/cheap” but they don’t know what they are talking about. 

[CGW]

9 hours ago, carlyai said:

I did read (somewhere) that RED was the best roof colour.

And besides, it makes TR11's and 111's and Alpines go faster. ????

White more thermally efficient, you do need a black "go faster" stripe to attain 100% efficiency though! 

[sezze]

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

Really, the only reason to go with a tile roof over metal is aesthetics. 
 

They do look ok and the flat ones look nice but that’s it. Appearances. 
 

Locals think that the tile roofs are “better” and metal roofs are “poor/cheap” but they don’t know what they are talking about. 

They are many times only known with the standard corrugated zink plated sheets which they fix on cheapest timber with a standard nail . Leaks for sure from day 1 and it starts to rust pretty fast . The new zink alu plated sheets covered with paint is not at all same material , as you fix it with self drilling screw with rubber underneath , giving the watertight seal .

Thai people also think more expensive is better , tiles are for expensive homes , while the steel roof they know is for cheap homes .

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

Really, the only reason to go with a tile roof over metal is aesthetics. 

You can always get a tile effect metal roof for that 

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

56 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You can always get a tile effect metal roof for that 

Gotta watch out though because there's alot of plastic/fiber ones that are junk. 

Really though, bluescope with the glued on thermal backing combined with fiberglass insulation above the ceiling and you're doing about 10,000 times better than 95% of the homes in Thailand, for a price that'll be about the same as having basic tile with nothing else. 

 

And funnily enough still not on par with how homes in my state are built to code for energy efficiency. 

 

Another step is to make yourself a thermally controlled attic ventilation fan that'll kick on above ambient temps outside and vent the roof/attic space. 

 

I made one for about 4k, worked flawlessly for 3 years until I sold the home. 

[Artisi]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:16 AM, carlyai said:

I did read (somewhere) that RED was the best roof colour.

And besides, it makes TR11's and 111's and Alpines go faster. ????

actually mine was more than fast enough, engine TR4 spec'd, dual Weber's and good cam.