Britain nears abandoning Brexit trade deal hope - The Telegraph

[stevenl]

Just now, pixelaoffy said:

Oh dear Europhile Rayc who thinks his 'points' are so indisputable ! The drivel about UK not being the prime financial centre isn't worthy of a reply! EU fanatic koolaid drinker 

Apparently they are indisputable.

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well reasoned posts? Funny as.

Since you seem unable to reason against them, yes, well reasoned.

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Oh dear Europhile Rayc who thinks his 'points' are so indisputable !

I'm all ears. Where are your counter-factuals?

 

5 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

 

The drivel about UK not being the prime financial centre isn't worthy of a reply!

Where did I state that the UK isn't the prime financial centre?

 

5 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

 

EU fanatic koolaid drinker 

No doubt your preferred tipple. Not mine.

 

Rather than post empty, meaningless, factually incorrect rhetoric why don't you post a meaningful hypothesis with supporting evidence and sources that we can discuss as grown-ups?

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

You need a new needle.

needless to say; a needle will not suffice, maybe some pincushions might

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

In 411 I said "there is no doubt that both the UK and the EU will lose economically as a result of Brexit" but you only mention the UK as a potential loser;

And you are now reduced to outright falsehoods.

 

Below is a direct quote from my post (#404). Surely, it is implicitly obvious that I agree with these economists that both the EU and UK will be losers?

 

"99% of economists and their models point to both the UK and the EU losing economically as a result of Brexit ...".

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

manipulation and typical bias but who's surprised.

Finally, a statement of yours that I can agree with.

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

 

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

needless to say; a needle will not suffice, maybe some pincushions might

 

voodoo lol

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

And you are now reduced to outright falsehoods.

 

Below is a direct quote from my post (#404). Surely, it is implicitly obvious that I agree with these economists that both the EU and UK will be losers?

 

"99% of economists and their models point to both the UK and the EU losing economically as a result of Brexit ...".

 

Finally, a statement of yours that I can agree with.

 

 

zzzzzzzzzzz

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You are flop flipping again old boy.

I have read it several times and the only conclusion I can come up with is as I have described.

This is an optimistic take on the impact on the dairy industry come Brexit. Even its not good news.

https://www.mintecglobal.com/blog/negotiation-in-food-commodity-procurement-brexit-dairy

 

Your comment about replacement imports is telling though. Even you admit our dairy farmers will be competing with global suppliers who can undercut our domestic ones.

 

As I said. You guys have made our farmers lives a lot tougher. Especially given they will no longer have access to their biggest export market and all those lovely EU subsidies they have been accustomed to receiving. 

 

So you knew all this and went ahead and voted for Brexit anyway.  

lovely eu subsidies?a small percentage of what we pay in,that eu,s all heart.

[paddypower]

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your introduced this 2% nonsense and you can keep it. Looking above, this has now mutated into 100% nonsense.

 

In 411 I said "there is no doubt that both the UK and the EU will lose economically as a result of Brexit" but you only mention the UK as a potential loser; manipulation and typical bias but who's surprised. Our "odyssey" is coming to an abrupt end. Happily I find myself running out of time to spend on you and your bunch of bananas.

Jeez.... I never understood why the English like a pint of bitter. Now I do.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, paddypower said:

Jeez.... I never understood why the English like a pint of bitter. Now I do.

And when the Guinness starts to go off....it sours quickly. 

[Nigel Garvie]

11 hours ago, kingdong said:

lovely eu subsidies?a small percentage of what we pay in,that eu,s all heart.

I will have to introduce some of those horrible fact things.

 

According to a Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) study, leaving the EU would lower trade between the UK and the EU because of higher tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade. In addition, the UK would benefit less from future market integration within the EU. All EU countries are estimated to lose income after Brexit – but the overall GDP fall in the UK would be between £26 billion to £55 billion, about twice as big as the £12 billion to £28 billion income loss in the rest of the EU combined.

 

The CEP is a politically independent Research Centre at the London School of Economics.

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/How-much-is-the-UK-EU-trade-worth

 

According to the ONS our final net contribution to the EU is £8.6 billion a year.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

 

So leaving the EU will cost us a minimum of £26Billion less a saving of £8.6Billion. Even a highly improbable 50% increase in trade with the US, would not even remotely replace our losses from reduced EU trade. A hard Brexit will of course just make things worse.

It is all about Trade, that's what makes the worlds economies actually work. 

 

[transam]

Just now, Nigel Garvie said:

I will have to introduce some of those horrible fact things.

 

According to a Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) study, leaving the EU would lower trade between the UK and the EU because of higher tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade. In addition, the UK would benefit less from future market integration within the EU. All EU countries are estimated to lose income after Brexit – but the overall GDP fall in the UK would be between £26 billion to £55 billion, about twice as big as the £12 billion to £28 billion income loss in the rest of the EU combined.

 

The CEP is a politically independent Research Centre at the London School of Economics.

 

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/How-much-is-the-UK-EU-trade-worth

 

According to the ONS our final net contribution to the EU is £8.6 billion a year.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

 

So leaving the EU will cost us a minimum of £26Billion less a saving of £8.6Billion. Even a highly improbable 50% increase in trade with the US, would not even remotely replace our losses from reduced EU trade. A hard Brexit will of course just make things worse.

It is all about Trade, that's what makes the worlds economies actually work. 

 

Not again, think that has been done to death over the last 4+ years, chap.....

[RayC]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

zzzzzzzzzzz

A rather childish response.

[luckyluke]

17 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

isn't worthy of a reply

Thanks,

I am often not able to respond to questions, and facts. 

I will use this as per now. 

 

Sorry to be out of the topic. 

[bannork]

'Boris, you've got to agree to a level playing field if you want a deal,' says Dad, (who has applied for a French passport by the way).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pm-in-cloud-cuckoo-land-on-trade-says-father-hpp80wtxw

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

'Boris, you've got to agree to a level playing field if you want a deal,' says Dad, (who has applied for a French passport by the way).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pm-in-cloud-cuckoo-land-on-trade-says-father-hpp80wtxw

 

Problem is the Brexiteers cannot compromise. They have promised complete freedom from the EU to their devout followers. This means there is no room for compromise. 

If only they had said that during the referendum. Then people would have known what they were voting for. There is no way vote leave would have won if they had been honest with people.

So what we got were promises of unicorns and sunny uplands where the rest of the world rolls over and capitulates to the UK's demands. Plenty of meaningless slogans ensured the reality was never going to be exposed or questioned.

If I had voted for leave I would be raging at how I had been lied to and duped into voting for something which will hurt my country. 

But it seems many of them are not bothered about that happening.

[tomacht8]

On 8/2/2020 at 2:26 PM, nauseus said:

Snip.

 

IN 2014, George Osborne talked about the type of problem that I am trying to explain to you:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/extracts-from-the-chancellors-speech-on-europe

 

When he said, quote (extract):

 

'First there is a danger that the euro members could start to use their collective voting weight in the EU to effectively write the rules for the whole EU by Qualified Majority Vote.

 

Under the Lisbon Treaty, from 1 November 2014, the Eurogroup on its own will have sufficient votes to pass any financial services legislation for the whole of the EU.

 

That’s a problem because it could leave us in a position where euro members – including ones with little or no financial services industry – can caucus together to impose financial services legislation on the UK –the world’s leading financial centre.

 

And we’ve already started to see the Eurogroup discussing EU directives privately before involving other member states – like they did over the Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive last June. It means there’s a very real risk that badly thought through legislation will be imposed on the UK'.

The Brexit reality has caught up this good Osborne man. London is not anymore the world's leading financial center.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/fdf97894-b687-11e8-bbc3-ccd7de085ffe

Edited August 3, 2020 by tomacht8

[Lormak]

19 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Problem is the Brexiteers cannot compromise. They have promised complete freedom from the EU to their devout followers. This means there is no room for compromise. 

If only they had said that during the referendum. Then people would have known what they were voting for. There is no way vote leave would have won if they had been honest with people.

So what we got were promises of unicorns and sunny uplands where the rest of the world rolls over and capitulates to the UK's demands. Plenty of meaningless slogans ensured the reality was never going to be exposed or questioned.

If I had voted for leave I would be raging at how I had been lied to and duped into voting for something which will hurt my country. 

But it seems many of them are not bothered about that happening.

Nobody with a brain thought Brexit would be easy. We knew the EU Mafia would play dirty and make it as unpleasant as possible. But we British are a resourceful and determined people. Once we get the EU's knee off our neck (31.12.20) we will take back control of our laws, economy and borders. Great Britain will flourish again!  We will trade with a world market TEN TIMES bigger than the failing EU!

Remainers just need to grow a spine and a pair of balls and they can join with us in this endeavour......

[Logosone]

9 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Nobody with a brain thought Brexit would be easy. We knew the EU Mafia would play dirty and make it as unpleasant as possible. But we British are a resourceful and determined people. Once we get the EU's knee off our neck (31.12.20) we will take back control of our laws, economy and borders. Great Britain will flourish again!  We will trade with a world market TEN TIMES bigger than the failing EU!

Remainers just need to grow a spine and a pair of balls and they can join with us in this endeavour......

BLM!

 

British lives matter!

[Lormak]

28 minutes ago, Logosone said:

BLM!

 

British lives matter!

Indeed...

English Lives Matter...

[7by7]

On 8/2/2020 at 1:22 PM, nauseus said:

 

Well, as about 80% of all EU legislation is now passed by QMV then maybe even you can see the way things are going? A big maybe, I know. 

 

F1 time.

 Kindly give us a few examples of EU legislation where unanimity was required and can now be passed by QMV.

 

However many these amount to, whatever the percentage, as already shown to you several times, any such change from unanimity to QMV must itself be agreed unanimously.

 

I repeat: I obviously have more faith in UK governments than you. Perhaps you can give an example of a weak UK government which caved in under pressure and didn't use it's veto?

 

Not that I expect an answer; it would be a first were you to so do!

 

[melvinmelvin]

45 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Nobody with a brain thought Brexit would be easy. We knew the EU Mafia would play dirty and make it as unpleasant as possible. But we British are a resourceful and determined people. Once we get the EU's knee off our neck (31.12.20) we will take back control of our laws, economy and borders. Great Britain will flourish again!  We will trade with a world market TEN TIMES bigger than the failing EU!

Remainers just need to grow a spine and a pair of balls and they can join with us in this endeavour......

 

reading your entry one can almost hear the wind filling the sails of the highspeed clippers

in the India/Ceylon - UK trade

while waves are being crushed

and the sailors chime in to;

 

 

[stevenl]

55 minutes ago, Lormak said:

<snip>Great Britain will flourish again!  We will trade with a world market TEN TIMES bigger than the failing EU!

<snip>

Just as you were able to do while part of the EU.

[kingdong]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

reading your entry one can almost hear the wind filling the sails of the highspeed clippers

in the India/Ceylon - UK trade

while waves are being crushed

and the sailors chime in to;

 

 

well certainly beats the remainers anthem........those were the days my friend,we thought they,d never end,well they did.

[CG1 Blue]

22 hours ago, bannork said:

'Boris, you've got to agree to a level playing field if you want a deal,' says Dad, (who has applied for a French passport by the way).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pm-in-cloud-cuckoo-land-on-trade-says-father-hpp80wtxw

 

Since when did the Prime Minister's dad become a key negotiator / advisor in the trade talks? If I hire a car mechanic I don't get the mechanic's dad to check his work ????

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Just as you were able to do while part of the EU.

Indeed, and in the EU we had the joint clout of a massive trading bloc behind us.

 

Whereas out of the EU we are a smallish nation without that clout. 

 

Not that many of our former trading partners while in the EU are queueing up to do new deals with us, and we all know that talks over a deal with our major partner, the EU, keep stalling.

 

UK hopes dwindling for post-Brexit trade deals with EU and US

Quote

........And US and UK officials have hit stumbling blocks concerning UK food regulations and the amount of market access demanded by the Americans.......

.......The talks have stalled over Washington’s demand for greater access to the British food market – specifically agriculture – which has prompted backlash from the industry and some MPs.

 

Many die hard Brexiteers say that if we don't have deals we will trade on WTO terms; as if that was some sort of panacea.

 

Anyone who subscribes to that view should read What would ‘trading on WTO terms’ mean for the UK? It's a lengthy document; which goes to show that trading on WTO terms is not as simple as Brexiteers make out!

[Lormak]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

UK hopes dwindling for post-Brexit trade deals with EU and US

 

Many die hard Brexiteers say that if we don't have deals we will trade on WTO terms; as if that was some sort of panacea.

 

Anyone who subscribes to that view should read What would ‘trading on WTO terms’ mean for the UK? It's a lengthy document; which goes to show that trading on WTO terms is not as simple as Brexiteers make out!

Blah, blah, blah.....  Whinge, dribble, snivel...

Brexit is not, and never has been, primarily about the economy. Its about freedom, sovereignty and self-determination. If the country takes an economic hit then so be it. We'll come through. We have faced far greater difficulties in the past. Frankly there are some things you just can't put a price on!

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Lormak said:

Blah, blah, blah.....  Whinge, dribble, snivel...

Brexit is not, and never has been, primarily about the economy. Its about freedom, sovereignty and self-determination. If the country takes an economic hit then so be it. We'll come through. We have faced far greater difficulties in the past. Frankly there are some things you just can't put a price on!

 Another Brexiteer who wraps him/herself in the flag and spouts about their patriotism and how wonderful the post Brexit UK will be; while living 6000 miles away!

 

The true patriots do care about the economy; as everything else stems from that.

 

If the country takes an economic hit, so does the general population. We will all suffer. Even you expat TVF Brexiteers when Sterling drops so low against the Baht that any income you get from the UK becomes relatively worthless.

 

Of course, the rich elite, like Jacob Rees-Mogg who moved some of this investments out of the UK into the EU almost immediately after the 23rd June 2016, wont suffer. They'll make huge profits from it.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Blah, blah, blah.....  Whinge, dribble, snivel...

Brexit is not, and never has been, primarily about the economy. Its about freedom, sovereignty and self-determination. If the country takes an economic hit then so be it. We'll come through. We have faced far greater difficulties in the past. Frankly there are some things you just can't put a price on!

You already have the same freedom, sovereignty and self determination as part of the EU.

 

Scotland though has far less freedom, sovereignty and self determination.

[simple1]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Many die hard Brexiteers say that if we don't have deals we will trade on WTO terms; as if that was some sort of panacea.

 

Compounded by the fact the trump administration has been undermining the functioning of the WTO by blocking appointments of Appeals Judges. I note the UK is trying to resolve this issue, but to date with no success.