7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes the long run is all that matters:

 

Sweden will probably see many more deaths due to covid, this is not over yet. From Sweden's Public Health Agency on the 22nd July. The best case scenario will be an additional 1,108 deaths, next scenario would be an additional 3,250 deaths and its third scenario is an additional 4,460 deaths still to come.

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20200721/how-many-more-people-could-die-from-coronavirus-in-sweden

 

its a hypothesis with no support of data, on contrary data contradict the hypothesis,

that to my mind is just agenda peddling.

a theory should be able to predict future, otherwise throw the theory in the trashcan

and try harder

21 minutes ago, scammed said:

i believe in inheritable general immunity,

europeans, having long been accustomed to chinese export of virus commodity

through silk road had much higher odds then native americans to withstand a virus.

even after 300 years of exposure, i still think black americans generally 

have a poorer immunity vs chinese commodity

You are welcome to believe in alien lizard people, if you wish, but that's not a reason for anyone here to take you seriously.

 

There is no such thing as "general immunity" to viruses or bacteria.  There are some cross immunities that result because of the similarity of one virus to another, such as cowpox and smallpox.  Although there are several coronaviruses no cross immunity among them has ever been established.  Indeed, there is no evidence of persistent immunity against reinfection even from the same coronavirus again and again.  It's not known if this is true for Sars-Cov2.

 

I don't know that viral immunity is inheritable.  If you have been infected with a virus, your body responds by producing antibodies and T cells that resist a second infection of that virus.  But how would that change your DNA so that you could pass it on to your offspring?  Sounds like Lamarckian evolution to me.

 

There are, however, adaptations to disease that reduce the severity of an infection and improve survivability and these could be passed on.  The well-known example is sickle-cell anemia which is an adaptation to malaria found in African Americans and which is certainly inheritable, but it does not involve antibodies resulting from a single infection.  Probably such adaptations would only arise in environments where the disease is endemic, rather than to epidemic diseases.

 

Europeans did have more immunity, to smallpox, for instance, than Native Americans, but that was because lacking herd animals and isolated from Eurasia, Native Americans had no exposure to epidemic disease of any kind prior to the European invasion.  

This video was also deleted by big tech, just to give Play Doh Joe a chance to become president

 

https://americasfrontlinedoctorsummit.com/

32 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

I did not mean to infer every country would be exactly the same. There are obviously factors that would make that impossible like density for example, or climate. 

 

What I am saying though is, each nation's death per capita is going to be very close to exactly what it would have been if they locked down or not. In the long run. 

 

You can't run or hide from this, all that will do is make it worse. What you can do is take reasonable measures and protect the vulnerable. Sweden has PROVEN this. We are NOT in the dark any longer. We actually know the answers, but somehow refuse to accept them still. 

 

Sweden didn't lock down, and look where they are now. If people can't understand all the implications of this, it is impossible to know what to say. There is nothing to say, you are in lala land. 

 

The other problem is, everyone said Sweden should be in utter ruin by now. What happened? They are doing fine.

 

The real fact of the matter is if Sweden just so happened to protect their elderly better near the beginning, and implemented all the same policies otherwise, they would be making a laughing stock of the earth earth by now. As it stands, they let things get out of hand in elderly homes, and with their policies that did throw off their numbers. But the main essence of their policies are most obviously correct. Are you capable of understanding any of that? 

If there is ever a Nobel Prize for Faith-Based Epidemiology, you should apply.

On 7/27/2020 at 10:46 AM, steelepulse said:

So why was the media concentrating on only "deaths" early on.  The media loved highlighting the death counts, yet never talked about actual ifr, nor the recovery rate.  They also didn't include such facts that the deaths from covid had a higher average age of death then pre covid times.

 

Seems short sighted of  the media not to cover any of this!

 

 

Exactly, deaths deaths deaths, until it doesn't fit the disgusting narrative

Despicable creatures on the left wrecking people's lives to help elect a demented creepy old man.

The dems don't care about anybody or anything, it's all about power

7 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

You are welcome to believe in alien lizard people, if you wish, but that's not a reason for anyone here to take you seriously.

 

There is no such thing as "general immunity" to viruses or bacteria.  There are some cross immunities that result because of the similarity of one virus to another, such as cowpox and smallpox.  Although there are several coronaviruses no cross immunity among them has ever been established.  Indeed, there is no evidence of persistent immunity against reinfection even from the same coronavirus again and again.  It's not known if this is true for Sars-Cov2.

 

I don't know that viral immunity is inheritable.  If you have been infected with a virus, your body responds by producing antibodies and T cells that resist a second infection of that virus.  But how would that change your DNA so that you could pass it on to your offspring?  Sounds like Lamarckian evolution to me.

 

There are, however, adaptations to disease that reduce the severity of an infection and improve survivability and these could be passed on.  The well-known example is sickle-cell anemia which is an adaptation to malaria found in African Americans and which is certainly inheritable, but it does not involve antibodies resulting from a single infection.  Probably such adaptations would only arise in environments where the disease is endemic, rather than to epidemic diseases.

 

Europeans did have more immunity, to smallpox, for instance, than Native Americans, but that was because lacking herd animals and isolated from Eurasia, Native Americans had no exposure to epidemic disease of any kind prior to the European invasion.  

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19?xtor=ES-213-[BBC Features Newsletter]-2020July24-[Future|+Button]

7 minutes ago, scammed said:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19?xtor=ES-213-[BBC Features Newsletter]-2020July24-[Future|+Button]

TL;DR

 

Ideas like this will get tossed around while the phenomenon is still new and not well-understood.  Most won't pan out.  We'll just wait and see on this one.

 

There's a reason the source chart quoted by the OP is labeled as "PROVISIONAL".  The data source being used in the chart, as the text underneath it notes, "do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period."  And in fact, the CDC data set being used here is widely known and understood to be FAR BEHIND current time reporting because of how the data is gathered and counted.

 

In other words, another pathetic attempt at lying with stats that don't really reflect what they're being claimed to represent.

 

Here's a more current, real-time look at CV deaths in the U.S., and the trendline is up, not down:

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-3-day-average

 

And a similar U.S. deaths chart from a different source:

 

 

 

this graph show the only uptick in new deaths are at very advanced age,

low age death is actually on decline.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-counts-of-deaths-by-jurisdiction-and-age-gr/y5bj-9g5w

 

this is pointing straight at nursing homes yet again, and/or advanced age.

it also rhymes with the findings of t cell deficiency in old folks

 

another data we can extract from this is that 85+ folks dont go to work,

dont riot, dont eat out at resturants, dont go out drinking at gogo, they do their bit of social distancing from anyone not in the nursing home, yet they make up for all the uptick in deaths.

 

that in turn point to social distancing and shutdown is unrelated to new deaths,

the new deaths revolve entirely around old folks hunkering in nursing homes

And the Washington Post has a similar graphic that tells the same story of an upward trend in U.S. CV deaths:

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/

 

Quote

 

The overall daily death toll had declined from April through early July, largely because of a sharp decrease in New York and New Jersey. But by July 10, after all states had begun reopening, death numbers had begun to tick up again for the first time since March.

 

Health officials anticipated the rise because the virus had been accelerating through populous states such as Texas, Florida and California for weeks. Localities reported not only a surge in new cases but also large increases in hospitalizations, crowded ICUs, and a jump in the percentage of positive tests.

 

 

The CDC's most recent daily tally:  65,935 new cases and 1,417 new deaths.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

 

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And the Washington Post has a similar graphic that tells the same story of an upward trend in U.S. CV deaths:

a more detailed graph show that deaths are actually on decline except for very advanced age

One of the big question the the US right now is "should we open the schools". 

 

We know, already, based on Sweden's model, it is fairly safe to open schools. Meaning, the benefits by far outweigh the drawbacks.

 

The list just goes on and one. We refuse to accept the facts. We are not in the dark anymore, supposedly. We actually have the answers and the data. We just choose not to use it. We choose to base decisions off of emotion. 

15 hours ago, scammed said:

a more detailed graph show that deaths are actually on decline except for very advanced age

 The WaPo graph is of total CV deaths in the U.S.  It doesn't break out any age categories.  And frankly, I'm not sure what it would matter if it did... 

 

Older people dying unnecessarily and prematurely due to a virus that could have been contained were it not for the incompetence of the current president isn't somehow a good or acceptable thing.

 

Those aren't normal, routine deaths of elderly individuals. Those are EXTRA deaths of older, elderly individuals who would be alive today were it not for the CV being allowed to spread freely throughout the U.S.

 

15 hours ago, scammed said:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

 

Quote

Number of deaths reported on this page are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period. Data are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.

 

2 hours ago, scammed said:

its a hypothesis with no support of data, on contrary data contradict the hypothesis,

that to my mind is just agenda peddling.

a theory should be able to predict future, otherwise throw the theory in the trashcan

and try harder

"my mind is just agenda peddling" just about says it all. Fortunately those in actual charge are not going by your logic.

 

I'll go with what Anders Tegnell Sweden's state epidemiologist said in the article but you obviously didn't read it.

 

 

Over the past 24 hours another 1,422 new deaths in the US with records broken in 8 states.

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

And what we are seeing there looks like a relatively mild second wave. But turn on the news and they are reporting armegeddon. 

Lol second wave ? When did they come out of the first one ?

Baiting, bickering, nonsense posts and replies removed.  Continued making of inflammatory remarks toward other members, and posting misinformation will earn suspensions.  

On 7/27/2020 at 10:25 AM, steelepulse said:

Why aren't they giving the news that the cases are the lowest seen in 4 months?

 

Florida set a new record for the number of deaths in a day for the fourth day in a row. As many had speculated given the retired community and obesity rate, once Covid 19 starts to run there may be no way to stop it until it runs out of fuel. 

'If you want to run cool, you got to run

on heavy heavy fuel'

there is graphs suggesting the states that were hit hard are on steady decline 

while those that got away with it arent getting away with it this time.

 there is no correlation to make out of mask enforcement.

at any rate, its retirees and especially advanced age retirees that fall victim 

1 hour ago, scammed said:

there is graphs suggesting the states that were hit hard are on steady decline 

while those that got away with it arent getting away with it this time.

 there is no correlation to make out of mask enforcement.

at any rate, its retirees and especially advanced age retirees that fall victim 

 

Young people may not often die from CV... But that doesn't mean they can't catch it, nor that they can't easily spread it to others, including other youngsters... So says the CDC.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/

 

Quote

Report: Coronavirus infected scores of children and staff at Georgia sleep-away camp

The finding that children 'might play an important role in transmission’ is likely to fuel debates about whether to reopen schools.

A new report suggests that children of all ages are susceptible to coronavirus infection and may also spread it to others — a finding likely to intensify an already fraught discussion about the risks of sending children back to school this fall.

 

The analysis, released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, details an outbreak at a sleep-away camp in Georgia last month in which 260 children and staffers — more than three-quarters of the 344 tested — contracted the virus less than a week after spending time together in close quarters. 

...

Data about symptoms was available for only 136 patients: About a quarter, or 36 people, reported no symptoms; 100 children and staff members (74 percent) reported symptoms, including fever (65 percent), headache (61 percent) and sore throat (46 percent).

 

 

And then there was this the other day re studies finding that those infected with coronavirus, who were previously healthy, can end up after recovery with lingering long-term heart damage.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/30/covid-19-patients-suffer-heart-injury-months-after-recovery-study/5536249002/

 

Quote

Heart damage found in coronavirus patients months after recovering from COVID-19, study says

 

New evidence suggests the coronavirus has lasting impacts on the heart, raising alarm for cardiologists who have been concerned about potential  long-term heart injury from COVID-19.
 

Two German studies, published Tuesday in the peer-reviewed journal JAMA Cardiology, found heart abnormalities in COVID-19 patients months after they had already recovered from the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2.

...

The findings come after a Cleveland Clinic study published July 9 in the medical journal JAMA Network Open spotlighted a number of cases of “broken heart syndrome,” or stress cardiomyopathy, doubled during the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

 

 

I am sure the 'right wing' does not like this guy ... I had a look at some of his shows on YouTube. Some stuff he is coming out I do not agree with ....  But I found this 'comparison' with the Spanish Flu interesting ..

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Young people may not often die from CV... But that doesn't mean they can't catch it, nor that they can't easily spread it to others, including other youngsters... So says the CDC.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/

 

 

Saw that report on the cdc gov website, worrying indeed for the impact this potentially has in school re openings.

 

336 young campers (6 - 19 years of age) median age 12 years and 120 staff members. All had a covid test prior to arrival with confirmed negative results. The campers did not have to wear facemasks although the staff did. Ventilation in buildings was also not enforced as per requirements.

 

After being at the camp for a couple of days a staff member tested positive, a few days later new tests were initiated. Test results were available for 344 (58%) attendees; among these, 260 (76%) were positive. The overall attack rate was 44% (260 of 597), 51% among those aged 6–10 years, 44% among those aged 11–17 years, and 33% among those aged 18–21 years.

 

These findings demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 spread efficiently in a youth-centric overnight setting, resulting in high attack rates among persons in all age groups, despite efforts by camp officials to implement most recommended strategies to prevent transmission. Asymptomatic infection was common and potentially contributed to undetected transmission.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

 

Of course the children and young people went home after the camp to their parents and extended families, ie grandparents and the elderly generations................

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like opening the schools is going to lead to a major disaster.

July 31 update from Johns Hopkins on U.S. CV deaths:

 

Quote

 

With more than 150,000 cumulative COVID-19 deaths, the US leads the world. The US has reported more than 3 times as many deaths as every country except Brazil. The US represents 22.5% of the global COVID-19 deaths—and 26% of the global cases—despite accounting for only 4.3% of the global population. The US is #9 globally in terms of per capita cumulative deaths—but will likely surpass France as #8 in the coming days.

 

National COVID-19 incidence and hospitalizations appear to have peaked over the past week, but deaths continue to increase.

 

 

Quote

The US is averaging more than 1,000 deaths per day for the first time since June 3. Multiple states continue to report record high daily deaths, including Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Oregon, and Texas. Notably, Texas is averaging nearly 250 deaths per day, and Florida is reporting more than 150.

 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/COVID-19-Updates---July-31.html

 

33 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

July 31 update from Johns Hopkins on U.S. CV deaths:

But who pays attention to the real statistics when they have this wonderful opportunity to blow hot air?

 

US is in it's first wave, second edition since it didn't undertake proper isolation precautions. @TallGuyJohninBKK is correct, citing Hopkins which is an aggregate of the most up to date information.

The more grave concern is the infection rate which presently results in a 3.31% mortality rate. Around 50 times higher than the Spanish Flu AKA the seasonal H1N1 flu. With more than 1/4 of all infections, the US is the C-19 virus pool of the world.

US 4,774,590 infections, 157,997 deaths as of Aug 02 15:22

 

The major problem with C-19 is we have no roadmap. No past history, no trend. We don't know if recovered people will develop an effective immunity. We don't even know how to fully prevent infections aside from a full HAZMAT proximity suit. What we do know is playing fast and loose with this virus like the US is doing is like playing Russian roulette with 5 of the 6 chambers loaded.

 

I retired earlier this year from being a health and hygiene facilitator focusing on infectious diseases in SE Asia since the year 2000.

 

The Washington Post just had a good, comprehensive article looking at the state of the U.S. right now with the CV... And the thrust of it has public health experts calling for a national reset of U.S. CV policy and broad national restrictions to prevent spiraling infections -- something that likely never will happen under Trump. So we will continue to circle the drain as a nation under a leaderless president.

 

Quote

Coronavirus threat rises across U.S.: ‘We just have to assume the monster is everywhere’

 

The coronavirus is spreading at dangerous levels across much of the United States, and public health experts are demanding a dramatic reset in the national response, one that recognizes that the crisis is intensifying and that current piecemeal strategies aren’t working.

 

This is a new phase of the pandemic, one no longer built around local or regional clusters and hot spots. It comes at an unnerving moment in which the economy suffered its worst collapse since the Great Depression, schools are rapidly canceling plans for in-person instruction and Congress has failed to pass a new emergency relief package. President Trump continues to promote fringe science, the daily death toll keeps climbing and the human cost of the virus in America has just passed 150,000 lives.

 

“Unlike many countries in the world, the United States is not currently on course to get control of this epidemic. It’s time to reset,” declared a report released this week by Johns Hopkins University.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-threat-rises-across-us-we-just-have-to-assume-the-monster-is-everywhere/2020/08/01/cdb505e0-d1d8-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html

*Deleted Post edited out*

 

The Gates Foundation donated $20 million to the John Hopkin's School of Public Health for Population, Reproductive Health Institute, of a total of $1.2 billion raised. Hardly "primarily funded by none other than...". That majority of whom cannot think for themselves is vast, isn't it?