Extension Of Amnesty Now In the Royal Gazette

[ubonjoe]

Posted late yesterday. http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2563/E/172/T_0005.PDF

Google translate of it follows.  I have requested a translation of it. Watch for another topic when done.

Note nothing about 90 day reports needing to be done in August. Just a extension of the notice approved on April 7th.

Edit: Better translation follows.

Edited August 1, 2020 by ubonjoe
posted new translation

[ezzra]

All very well, what is going to happen after the amnesty will expire i wonder given the current situation with not many alternatives to renew visa if any at all which will put immense pressure on many simple visa holders, will amnesty be extended again?...

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, ezzra said:

All very well, what is going to happen after the amnesty will expire i wonder given the current situation with not many alternatives to renew visa if any at all which will put immense pressure on many simple visa holders, will amnesty be extended again?...

If the border crossing are not open and flights out of the country are limited then a extension might be possible.

About the only thing at this time is a 30 day special extension with a letter from your embassy.

[lopburi3]

I mailed my 90 day report 60 minutes ago.  ????

[DrJack54]

How does immigration come out of this "face" wise. I mean their terms such as "grace period" and the requirement for August 90 day report etc. Just huff and puff. The government has basically stated to immigration we run the show.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

How does immigration come out of this "face" wise. I mean their terms such as "grace period" and the requirement for August 90 day report etc. Just huff and puff. The government has basically stated to immigration we run the show.

Does not article 1. not state that they back Thai immigration laws etc etc etc. read as in Ubonjoes post. Let’s just say it gives a lot of flexibility to Thai immigration.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Ubonjoe ... 90 day reporting all covered under article 1.  That small paragraph covers a lot of information. 

[audaciousnomad]

 

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If the border crossing are not open and flights out of the country are limited then a extension might be possible.

About the only thing at this time is a 30 day special extension with a letter from your embassy.

 

Thanks for the update +ubonjoe. I was waiting for this.  So if you could clarify....despite no new verbiage in the cabinet extension, and revised verbiage on immigration's website, is the situation practically the same as it was in the first two amnesties?  Because the new stance by immigration seems to be more hardline, even though nothing in the ministerial order has changed other than moving the date.  Is it just muscle flexing words by immi?

[Shannoblic]

Just been to my local Immigration office and done my 90 day.  Office was totally empty apart from me, a lady cleaning and one Immigration Officer.  Took just over three minutes!

 

The IO said 'Thank You' as he gave me back my passport  - I wonder if he was grateful I had avoided an expected rush by going a couple of days early?

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, Shannoblic said:

I wonder if he was grateful I had avoided an expected rush by going a couple of days early?

What expected rush?
Even the immigration announcement states you have the entire month of August to do skipped 90 day reports.

[vermin on arrival]

@ubonjoe So this is essentially the same as the old amnesty? Is all this get a long term visa or get out by Sept 26 no more extensions just huffing and puffing and rumors, or is it real?

 

My first choice is still to try and get back to Taiwan. I will take a significant financial hit using an agent to switch visa classes for a 1 year permission to stay when I may be able to somehow get into Taiwan sometime right before or right after I change my visa class. I am currently looking into a medical permit to get into Taiwan this August. I really have no desire to stay long term in Thailand , but it would be preferable to being forced back into the US and I will take the hit if there is no prospect of getting into Taiwan (or maybe Laos).

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Is all this get a long term visa or get out by Sept 26 no more extensions just huffing and puffing and rumors, or is it real?

Not real at all. Perhaps a few people voicing their opinion.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

How does immigration come out of this "face" wise. I mean their terms such as "grace period" and the requirement for August 90 day report etc. Just huff and puff. The government has basically stated to immigration we run the show.

I think you will find that immigration officials are still the people you need to deal with when you visit the immigration office. Immigration may be willfully misinterpreting the cabinet's resolution and the Royal Gazette announcement, but I do not think pointing at the announcement will get you anywhere if immigration insists on its own interpretation.

[vermin on arrival]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not real at all. Perhaps a few people voicing their opinion.

That's what I thought. Thanks Joe. Have a good day : )

[jackdd]

23 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Is all this get a long term visa or get out by Sept 26 no more extensions just huffing and puffing and rumors, or is it real?

Actually immigration wanted everybody out by 31st July, maybe giving a grace period, we can see this from the notes of the Cabinet meeting and also from a news post which was posted here on Thaivisa a few weeks ago and mentioned these rumors. But the Cabinet decided to grant this extension, even though immigration was against it. Now immigration wants everybody out by 26th September.

The Cabinet does of course have no legal obligation to listen to immigration, but i guess they also don't like too many complaints from immigration. Thus i think it's unlikely that they decide against immigration's recommendation again, and i think that there is probably no further extension.

Edited July 30, 2020 by jackdd

[vermin on arrival]

 

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Actually immigration wanted everybody out by 31st July, maybe giving a grace period, we can see this from the notes of the Cabinet meeting and also from a news post which was posted here on Thaivisa a few weeks ago and mentioned these rumors. But the Cabinet decided to grant this extension, even though immigration was against it. Now immigration wants everybody out by 26th September.

The Cabinet does of course have no legal obligation to listen to immigration, but i guess they also don't like too many complaints from immigration. Thus i think it's unlikely that they decide against immigration's recommendation again, and i think that there is probably no further extension.

Who knows. Many were speculating that this would not be approved again. And there will be great speculation on the future as well. I don't see any reason to think that your guess is better than anyone else's at this point.

 

Immigration will not have the final say here. The cabinet will as it did with all of the decisions from March until now. They have overridden immigration every time so far. It of course, does not mean they will do so again.

 

The people who have jumped through hoops seem to resent the people who have long stay here now without having to do so and seem to enjoy putting much stress on the people who are getting a free ride in their estimation. In my case, the last thing I wanted to do was stay here, but I can't get back home to Taiwan. It has crushed my life by not being able to do so, and I have lost a year worth of income that would have covered all my expenses for next year. Getting crushed with further costs and stress to stay here and potentially getting kicked back to the US where I have not lived for 22 years has been no picnic for me.

[audaciousnomad]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Actually immigration wanted everybody out by 31st July, maybe giving a grace period, we can see this from the notes of the Cabinet meeting and also from a news post which was posted here on Thaivisa a few weeks ago and mentioned these rumors. But the Cabinet decided to grant this extension, even though immigration was against it. Now immigration wants everybody out by 26th September.

The Cabinet does of course have no legal obligation to listen to immigration, but i guess they also don't like too many complaints from immigration. Thus i think it's unlikely that they decide against immigration's recommendation again, and i think that there is probably no further extension.

What do they gain by rushing everyone out?  They really only had lots of work to do when borders were open.  So why the urgency to get rid of everyone ASAP?

Edited July 30, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[jackdd]

10 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

What do they gain by rushing everyone out?  They really only had lots of work to do when borders were open.  So why the urgency to get rid of everyone ASAP?

If we are talking about immigration: If the cabinet doesn't extend the amnesty and people would leave immigration doesn't get anything. But immigration knows that many people want to stay, and if these people have to choose between leaving or paying an agent to be able to stay, they will choose the latter, which means backhanders for immigration. Thus they recommend the cabinet to not extend the amnesty.

Of course on the other hand of the spectrum there is for example the TAT, i guess they recommend to let the remaining tourists stay, they spend at least some money in Thailand.

[DrJack54]

Slightly aside. May I ask some of the more experienced guys.....what happens when I go to obtain my annual extension RE (Sept) and io asks for a 90 day report. 

I say "amnesty no need 90 address report"

IO..."you need why you no do August. NEXT!"

Jerry Seinfield soup kitchen.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Slightly aside. May I ask some of the more experienced guys.....what happens when I go to obtain my annual extension RE (Sept) and io asks for a 90 day report. 

I say "amnesty no need 90 address report"

IO..."you need why you no do August. NEXT!"

If you consider what they wrote about August it is only needed if you normally do reports and had skipped them. 

I reality the ministerial notice is more official than the immigration infographic.

Up to you how you handle it.

My extension is due next month so I am going to have a completed TM47 form with me to do a report if they want me to do it since I have already skipped my report that was due in April.

 

[jackdd]

40 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Slightly aside. May I ask some of the more experienced guys.....what happens when I go to obtain my annual extension RE (Sept) and io asks for a 90 day report. 

I say "amnesty no need 90 address report"

IO..."you need why you no do August. NEXT!"

Jerry Seinfield soup kitchen.

Just do one while you are already there, if it makes them happy, and then apply for the extension.

If they would try to fine you for not having done it, this would complicate the matter. But if you tell them that you know what's written in the ministerial order, i guess they would say "this one time i waive the fine for you" or something like that, making it sound like they do you a favor even if they just follow the law.

[DrJack54]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

you consider what they wrote about August it is only needed if you normally do reports and had skipped them. 

You have advised me previously and thank you. My confusion is that having lived here several years but never having done an 90 day address report.....not sure where I sit in this situation. Currently on island away from bkk. Mail and personal attendance not simple. Would require return to BKK

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, vermin on arrival said:

Immigration will not have the final say here. The cabinet will as it did with all of the decisions from March until now. They have overridden immigration every time so far. It of course, does not mean they will do so again.

None of this is set in stone, obviously, and the cabinet could decide there are more important considerations than just enforcing immigration rules. However, I consider the September 26 date (exactly six months from March 26) to be significant. Immigration, I believe, is arguing that no tourist should be here longer than six months. If the cabinet was not swayed by that argument, I think the new deadline would have been September 30.

[biatch0]

Doesn't seem to be any clarity on how the embassy letter (or other extensions) are treated with regards to the active/start date? I recently got an embassy letter in case the amnesty wasn't extended on July 31st - if the additional 30 days starts from September 26th, then it would make sense to immediately head down to immigration to apply for it. 

[Sheryl]

Joe, to your reading does this include people here on an L-A visa?

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Joe, to your reading does this include people here on an L-A visa?

For 90 day reporting the answer is yes if they have skipped doing reports for the past few months. They should get caught up by doing a report in August. But they cannot be fined for not doing them in August.

[vermin on arrival]

49 minutes ago, BritTim said:

None of this is set in stone, obviously, and the cabinet could decide there are more important considerations than just enforcing immigration rules. However, I consider the September 26 date (exactly six months from March 26) to be significant. Immigration, I believe, is arguing that no tourist should be here longer than six months. If the cabinet was not swayed by that argument, I think the new deadline would have been September 30.

Maybe. I don't know if the consideration is that no tourist  should be here more than 6 months. The reality is that all people who are covered by this amnesty will have been in country for more than 6 months. I arrived on Jan 30, did my 30 day extension end of Feb, covid extension and then amnesty. So I will be at near 8 months by Sept 26. If this is the 6 month rule, it is being enforced in a strange way. However, I do know that it is clearly 6 months from the declaration of a state of emergency. Whether that is relevant who is to say. In the end the whys of everything are pure speculation since none of this has been explained by the people in charge.

Edited July 30, 2020 by vermin on arrival

[vermin on arrival]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

If we are talking about immigration: If the cabinet doesn't extend the amnesty and people would leave immigration doesn't get anything. But immigration knows that many people want to stay, and if these people have to choose between leaving or paying an agent to be able to stay, they will choose the latter, which means backhanders for immigration. Thus they recommend the cabinet to not extend the amnesty.

Of course on the other hand of the spectrum there is for example the TAT, i guess they recommend to let the remaining tourists stay, they spend at least some money in Thailand.

Spot on. Not extending the amnesty and fearmongering makes big money for many IOs and their partnership with agents..

Edited July 30, 2020 by vermin on arrival

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For 90 day reporting the answer is yes if they have skipped doing reports for the past few months. They should get caught up by doing a report in August. But they cannot be fined for not doing them in August.

Thanks,  but I meant the amnesty extension. Just want to be sure people on L-A are coivered as I have a worker now on overstay since the 24th.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Thanks,  but I meant the amnesty extension. Just want to be sure people on L-A are coivered as I have a worker now on overstay since the 24th.

The ministerial order is an extension of the one approved on April 7th. Everything is the same as before,