Thailand’s submarine purchase cannot be scrapped, but can be postponed

[webfact]

Thailand’s submarine purchase cannot be scrapped, but can be postponed

 

 

The Royal Thai Navy’s (RTN) plan to procure two Chinese-made Yuan-class submarines, at an estimated cost to the taxpayer of 22.5 billion baht, cannot be scrapped because it was approved, in principle, in accordance with the 2020 Budget Act. It can, however, be postponed or delayed, according to Mr. Santi Promphat, chairman of the House Budget Scrutiny Committee today.

 

The RTN’s submarine procurement project is strongly opposed by many in and out of Parliament, who claim that the money should be better used to ease the economic hardships caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Opinion is also divided among government parties, with the Democrats saying that the project should be postponed.

 

Mr. Santi said that the House Budget Scrutiny Committee has agreed to postpone discussion of the controversial project until August 31st, to allow time to gather more information.

 

Source: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailands-submarine-purchase-cannot-be-scrapped-but-can-be-postponed/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2020-08-27

 

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[ukrules]

55 minutes ago, webfact said:

cannot be scrapped because it was approved, in principle, in accordance with the 2020 Budget Act

Now that, I don't understand.

[Chelseafan]

Something that is "approved in prinicple" can of course be scrapped.

 

If there is no signed contract with the Chinese then what's the problem, other than loss of face?

 

....oh wait, NOW I get it.

 

 

 

 

 

[sammieuk1]

In other news what happened to Mr Santi ????

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Now that, I don't understand.

have been in this country for over 30 years and i still perplexed as to the many things here that doesn't make sense at all but to the natives they somehow dose.. go figure..

[Thaiwrath]

cannot be scrapped because it was approved, in principle,

 that it is up to the House Budget Scrutiny Committee to approve or reject the project.

 

Surely, if the House Budget Security Committee reject the project, it will be scrapped ?

More <deleted> coming from this man's mouth !  

[meechai]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Now that, I don't understand.

They are saying that "Mr Somchai X" who brokered the deal has already spent his commission

[PFMills]

Guess it could be postponed like the Red Bulls guy visit to the courthouse. But in this case any brown envelopes might have to go back...

Edited August 26, 2020 by PFMills

[PatOngo]

Hang on! Am I sensing a slight back pedal here? ????

[colinneil]

Cannot be scrapped !!! Just more BS.

 The reason subs cannot be scrapped is backhanders already received and will not be given back.

[RotBenz8888]

My mom didn't allow me to play with war toys. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by RotBenz8888

[scammed]

for as long as they havnt signed the dotted line with china,

its an internal issue only, i.e an unwillingness in the government

to use this money on other expenses

[nikmar]

[Geoffggi]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The Royal Thai Navy’s (RTN) plan to procure two Chinese-made Yuan-class submarines, at an estimated cost to the taxpayer of 22.5 billion baht, cannot be scrapped because it was approved, in principle, in accordance with the 2020 Budget Act. It can, however, be postponed or delayed, according to Mr. Santi Promphat, chairman of the House Budget Scrutiny Committee today.

Absolute "RUBBISH" what on earth prevents the cancellation other than the big boys want their toys !!!! plus of course the 22.5 Billion baht each for the subs that in all honesty are not an essential requirement .......!!!

[rtco]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

because it was approved, in principle,

Well maybe this is just my interpretation but approved in principle means that there will be some kind of "get out" clause and what better one that we want to divert the 22.5 billion to the downtrodden, out of work and desperate people here in Thailand

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Something that is "approved in prinicple" can of course be scrapped.

 

If there is no signed contract with the Chinese then what's the problem, other than loss of face?

 

....oh wait, NOW I get it.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. The moneys been spent, or rather has been placed into corrupt pockets already.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, scammed said:

for as long as they havnt signed the dotted line with china,

its an internal issue only, i.e an unwillingness in the government

to use this money on other expenses

June 2017:

"The first Bt13.5 billion submarine's procurement was approved by the junta government in late April for the Navy to open a seven-year binding agreement with a Chinese state-owned company a few weeks later."

(my italics)

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30316975

As the junta leadership is still in essence still in control of the Thai government, China's consent seems to be necessary for any changes to the sub purchases. The Thai government seems to have little to no independent say in the matter.

[madmitch]

For a Government that has made more u-turns than a pick-up driver to state that something that is agreed can't be changed is simply untrue.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

Now that, I don't understand.

I agree.

But one explanation. The entire purchase covers a contractural 10-year payment period with China essentially loaning the funds. www.globaltimes.cn/content/992089.shtml

 

That way I believe the Thai government is funding the loan by getting budget authority for each fiscal year to match the contract annual terms of payment. Obviously, there has to date been several budget approvals for annual payments to meet the government's contractual obligations.

There is thus, fiscal tacit annual approval to continue to honor the contract obligations for the entire 10-year term of the Chinese contract. To cease payment puts Thailand in contract default (I don't believe details of the contract were ever released to the public so default remedies are unknown).

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

I agree.

But one explanation. The entire purchase covers a contractural 10-year payment period with China essentially loaning the funds. www.globaltimes.cn/content/992089.shtml

 

That way I believe the Thai government is funding the loan by getting budget authority for each fiscal year to match the contract annual terms of payment. Obviously, there has to date been several budget approvals for annual payments to meet the government's contractual obligations.

There is thus, fiscal tacit annual approval to continue to honor the contract obligations for the entire 10-year term of the Chinese contract. To cease payment puts Thailand in contract default (I don't believe details of the contract were ever released to the public so default remedies are unknown).

That would mean that they already agreed to all of this and there can be no change (there can but with penalties).  I thought it was not agreed upon 100% but you never know what shady things they are trying to pull

[DirtyHarry55]

Yup Tea money already been spent it's my understanding its always paid upfront.

[tomazbodner]

Submarines are a wonderful piece of technology, something to be admired for the pressures they can withstand and how they can balance the tanks to rise and sink, yet still provide living conditions deep underwater for a long time. Truly impressive.

 

But...

 

How exactly could Thailand utilise submarines? To protect itself from who exactly? Or attack who? There's a vast Indian ocean on one side, and a closed Gulf of Siam on the other, where Thailand runs down most of it. There isn't really a country that is a threat to Thailand that would choose sea to attack it. Hence this may be as wasted purchase as the aircraft carrier was. But at least that was turned into tourist attraction. Not sure anyone would want to get into submarine that has no windows as a tourist.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

The Royal Thai Navy’s (RTN) plan to procure two Chinese-made Yuan-class submarines, at an estimated cost to the taxpayer of 22.5 billion baht, cannot be scrapped because it was approved, in principle, in accordance with the 2020 Budget Act. It can, however, be postponed or delayed, according to Mr. Santi Promphat, chairman of the House Budget Scrutiny Committee today.

Everything can be scrapped if need be!

[Bender Rodriguez]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

cannot be scrapped because it was approved

or already ordered ?

[ThailandRyan]

29 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Everything can be scrapped if need be!

  Yes and there are big enough magnets to help in moving the scrap right back to the smelter to melt it down to be reused in the much needed infrastructure projects they whine about.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[KhunKenAP]

Discussion on hold until the end of August???? Can not cancel order? That I understand since all the brown envelopes have been sent and spent. Follow the money of all involved in this fiasco and don't stop till they hit the top dogs!

[JusticeGB]

"Cannot be scrapped because it has been approved in principle"  is a translation of "Cannot be scrapped because the brown envelopes can't be handed back".

[Scott Tracy]

My understanding was that this is not a government to government contract. In this case, to specify China, implying the Government or Communist Party of China, in the comments is erroneous. My understanding is that It is a contract between the RTN and a Chinese based constructor, who appears to take around 7 years to build and provide a submarine. Given that the first sub is being purchased on tick, (or on HP), payments are being spread over that period of time.

Thus, one assumes,  the same applies to the 2 new ones and the 22bn will not be spent in one hit.

Any contract worth its salt would have a get out clause, but cancellation may cost quite a bit. Perhaps the RTN should continue the purchase then put them up for sale and lease them back.

 

So many alternatives...

[Flying Saucage]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Submarines are a wonderful piece of technology, something to be admired for the pressures they can withstand and how they can balance the tanks to rise and sink, yet still provide living conditions deep underwater for a long time. Truly impressive.

 

But...

 

How exactly could Thailand utilise submarines? 

As a vassal state, to serve China in the South China Sea in an "International coalition lead by China, which will fend off the aggressive threat of other nations on the sovereign territory of China" there.

 

[Donutz]

They really want to have those useless toys. 555 ????