American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[josephbloggs]

26 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

That is not true at all! Go to the luxurious new Grande Center Point hotel in Pattaya - absolutely zero corkage fee in their roof top restaurant.

That's because that is a dry hotel and they don't sell alcohol.  By bringing in your own booze you are not doing them out of a sale, hence no corkage charge.

For hotels or restaurants that do sell alcohol a corkage charge is absolutely the norm.

[Don Mega]

18 minutes ago, Susco said:

I didn't proof any of your usual troll points.

 

Do you know which room the American booked?

Well obviously none that you linked !!

[jomtienisgood]

9 minutes ago, khunpa said:

I am worried now. I just gave a girl 1 star on smooci ????

Who is she ???????

[Ebumbu]

New reviews are pouring in. The Streisand Effect is in full force. Oops. 

 

Nicurauga zzz14 minutes ago on  Google

1/5

I found a poo in my bed when I entered my room.

Trip typeVacation

Rooms1.0

Service1.0

Location1.0

 



 

 

[chickenslegs]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

New reviews are pouring in. The Streisand Effect is in full force. Oops. 

 

Nicurauga zzz14 minutes ago on  Google

1/5

I found a poo in my bed when I entered my room.

Trip typeVacation

Rooms1.0

Service1.0

Location1.0

 



 

 

That one was written by Christopher Robin.

[Flying Saucage]

45 minutes ago, peterdarby said:

There are some places that do that, but the vast majority of hotel restaurants do not allow food or drink to be brought in from outside. Corkage is a standard treatment and I, for one, would always ask if it is OK to bring in a bottle from outside before even sitting down. If I did not like the answer, I would go to a different restaurant, not sit there and argue about it and give negative reviews.

But the real issue in this case is not the corkage!

 

The issue here is that an American expat living and working in Thailand was arrested by the immigration police  and returned to Koh Chang where he was detained and only freed on bail, now possibly facing years of jail and deportation, based on the fascist Thai defamation law. A law which was created by the mafia-style elite in this country to curb freedom of speech and to suppress any critic about their often highly controversial businesses. A law which enables bad actors to use legal harassment against critics. And all this because of a review on Trip Advisor!

 

The owner of the hotel is not this Czech guy. The claim of the Czech guy that the hotel "is not owned nor has any links to any large corporate entities" is not true, or in other words, it's a lie. The hotel is owned by one of the most influencal powerful persons on the island. People familiar with Thailand know what this means, how these families act, and that the defamation law was basically created by/for them to be used against critics.

 

So, we should take any comment from this employed Czech manager also with a grain of salt. He has to do and to write what his boss tells him.

 

The whole case is about much more than a "tourist wanting to avoid corkage". It's about an expat facing jail and deportation on base of a fascist law made to curb freedom and freedom of speech, just for posting a hotel review on Trip Advisor.

 

I do not defend the American, and maybe his review was a little over the top. But it's beyond me how any person coming from a pluralist western democracy can side with the hotel, its reaction in this case, and the use of this fascist defamation law. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[GinBoy2]

The big difference between Thailand and most of the world is the fact that defamation is a criminal rather than civil offense.

 

Now this guy, at least on superficial understanding of this is a bit of a jerk, and certainly if he is the guy in the Kansas incident a big jerk.

 

But in most countries this would either have been greeted with a shrug of the shoulders, some back and forth with the review site, a robust online review response, but certainly not an arrest!

 

The criminal defamation law in Thailand is draconian. The Natural Fruits case against Andy Hall proved that even if you report the truth you can still end up in court facing years in prison

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, ScotBkk said:

That's a typical answer from someone like yourself.

Seeing as you know me so well and call me an 'apologist' - - I wasn't apologizing for anyone... the guy states how he does not like it here and I tell him he has choices... I always had choices and exercised them to do what I wanted...

 

seemingly unlike you who is forced to return... sorry for your predicament but don't blame it on others.. 

1 hour ago, ScotBkk said:

There is much better places around the world and not so much hassle.

There "are" - - but, maybe English isn't your first language... so, off you go - haunt those forums w/your negativity

 

2 hours ago, ScotBkk said:

Personally I think they're just a load of old miserly grumpy faced farts,

and don't assume that I have a miserly miserable existence... you are not even close - - and I am here by choice and because I like it... you are the one who seems rather unhappy.. 

[Susco]

10 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Well obviously none that you linked !!

Really, these are the ones I linked, and I see one at 6400 and another at 7600 Baht

 

Even the deluxe sea view you booked can be had with more options at 5300 Baht, that is if you're not a cheap skint troll of course

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Susco

[Badboldie]

17 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Little bit advice to any business in any sector: don’t have your customers imprisoned. It isn’t a good look. 
 

People leave bad reviews. This is life. Explain why the review is wrong or at least try to settle it with the guest. This has now just made it much worse for the hotel. 
 

And before people say it’s the law or the police did it, etc, once you go to the police to file charges for someone writing bad reviews, you can safely assume they’ll be arrested if the case is accepted. That’s how filing complaints with the police works. 

A honest review is OK, but if true, that it was fabficated, then he deserves it. I think they did try to settle it with customer! My view just another over opinionated yank!

Would be good to hear the customers side. 

[rkidlad]

Just now, Badboldie said:

A honest review is OK, but if true, that it was fabficated, then he deserves it. I think they did try to settle it with customer! My view just another over opinionated yank!

Would be good to hear the customers side. 

That’s why it needs to be proved he was lying. You take him to court and sue him. This is a civil matter. Not a criminal one. 
 

 

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

 

The whole case is about much more than a "tourist wanting to avoid corkage". It's about an expat facing jail and deportation on base of a fascist law made to curb freedom and freedom of speech, just for posting a hotel review on Trip Advisor.

 

 

The guy obviously has alcohol issue and (I doubt for the first time) has landed himself in a big pile of steaming excrement.

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, Susco said:

Really, these are the ones I linked, and I see one at 6400 and another at 7600 Baht

 

Even the deluxe sea view you booked can be ahd with more options at 5300 Baht, that is if you're not a cheap skint troll of course

 

hahahaha, your delusional.

 

The room rate is the lowest number, how do you know he booked at the higher price with the extra options...... you don't so run away troll you messed up and are now clutching at straws to avoid looking the fool you are.

[Arthur Mullard]

17 hours ago, ukrules said:

I think they were correct to have this guy arrested, he attempted to destroy their reputation based on his own ignorance at a time when business is already bad and ignored all attempts at contact.

 

I've met people like this guy before and believe me, I've considered having them arrested but I've refrained so far.

I think when you live in a fascist state there's a danger of forgetting yourself.

A CEO in London who ran a highly successful hospitality business, with a passion, would engage on a regular basis with bad reviewers, on TripAdvisor. Not everyone goes to that length, but more often that not, the call would be a doorman's "professionalism".. rude service at the bars etc. He answered everyone as I recall, including the positive reviewers. Often he would come down on the side of his staff, very apologetically to the customer. Stating the difficulties of the job on the door, or the aims of his treasured business which he clearly cared about. So he took an old-fashioned and personal approach one could say, to really try to make amends. What was stopping this business from adopting a very apologetic response, to all his responses, online? Taking the higher ground in tone and maintaining professionalism for anyone who read it?

 

Calling for the arrest of someone (effectively) - which we've seen already this week by a hospitality tycoon, for different reasons.. (but who wouldn't put it past him to do the same???) appears to be a fascist way to ensure maximum punishment and more pertinently a failure in communication skills.

 

Who hasn't faced appalling service in Thailand? Miserable, localised mentality in modern day food outlets. I can think of a few.

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Mullard said:

I think when you live in a fascist state there's a danger of forgetting yourself.

A CEO in London who ran a highly successful hospitality business, with a passion, would engage on a regular basis with bad reviewers, on TripAdvisor. Not everyone goes to that length, but more often that not, the call would be a doorman's "professionalism".. rude service at the bars etc. He answered everyone as I recall, including the positive reviewers. Often he would come down on the side of his staff, very apologetically to the customer. Stating the difficulties of the job on the door, or the aims of his treasured business which he clearly cared about. So he took an old-fashioned and personal approach one could say, to really try to make amends. What was stopping this business from adopting a very apologetic response, to all his responses, online? Taking the higher ground in tone and maintaining professionalism for anyone who read it?

 

Calling for the arrest of someone (effectively) - which we've seen already this week by a hospitality tycoon, for different reasons.. (but who wouldn't put it past him to do the same???) appears to be a fascist way to ensure maximum punishment and more pertinently a failure in communication skills.

 

Who hasn't faced appalling service in Thailand? Miserable, localised mentality in modern day food outlets. I can think of a few.

 

 

The American guy waged war on the business by writing false and fake reviews , lying and cheating to get revenge on a business that wouldnt allow him to bring beers from 7/11 to his room 

[Boomer6969]

12 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

For hotels or restaurants that do sell alcohol a corkage charge is absolutely the norm.

This isn't always the case, Thai owned and/or managed places offer flexibility. I remember at KC Grande (White Sands, Koh Chang) when pointing out they hadn't charge their corkage fee, being relied "not for you sir we are a good customer". It effectively converted the fee into a tip, but that's the essence of "win win" situation.

I think it is mostly the Farang owned places that are stubborn when it comes to corkage, the epitome of dumbness being  a place in Kai Bea where they want to charge corkage for the wine they sell in the shop that is part of the restaurant; I cancelled my order and left. At Wine Connection they know better.

[rott]

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

That’s why it needs to be proved he was lying. You take him to court and sue him. This is a civil matter. Not a criminal one. 
 

 

He doesn't need to be lying, read the Thai law on Defamation. 

 

Anyway he has yet to be prosecuted and it would be wrong to automatically assume he will get locked up if convicted. Just because the law allows for a prison sentence does not mean it will happen. 

[Susco]

9 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

The room rate is the lowest number, how do you know he booked at the higher price with the extra options

 

I don't know, that is why I asked you 3 times already if you knew which room the American booked.

 

But as a professional troll, you avoid answering that question, and deflect by making some troll posts.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, rott said:

He doesn't need to be lying, read the Thai law on Defamation. 

 

Anyway he has yet to be prosecuted and it would be wrong to automatically assume he will get locked up if convicted. Just because the law allows for a prison sentence does not mean it will happen. 

I hope it doesn't happen totally OTT but he was a real jerk posting multiple reviews and not answering emails etc.  Winding up Thais in Thailand is not very sensible.

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, Badboldie said:

A honest review is OK, but if true, that it was fabficated, then he deserves it. I think they did try to settle it with customer! My view just another over opinionated yank!

Would be good to hear the customers side. 

The customers view has been aired in full in his own words in more than one post in this thread. Over opinionated? In my view yes. Deserved what he got? By no stretch of the imagination. The guy's a teacher in Thailand who spent 3 nights in a Thai prison, 100k bail, the threat of a prison sentence and jail time hanging over him. Almost certainly lost his job which would probably invalidate his visa. Why?Because he went OTT with a couple of online reviews and seriously peed off the wrong person. 

 

If a normal person gets hit by a car, they struggle to get the police to attend let alone take any action. Yet for posting a couple of dodgy reviews about a hotel owned by a seriously well connected Thai, they go to his school in another province, drive him down to Koh Chang, throw him in jail and take him to court. Its normal in Thailand for someone to be involved in a shooting to be asked to attend the local police station at their convenience. Rarely actually go out and arrest them.

 

Says everything you need to know about Thai justice/police and how the rich/connected live by different laws to the rest.

[NoComment]

Expat should know better and why bother? He has not proved anything to anyone else!???

3 sides to the story; his siide, their side and the truth.

[JensenZ]

18 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

would like to hear the reviewer's version of events.   But if the hotel's timeline of events are accurate, then I could understand why they at least wanted to talk to him.

 

I suspect if these reviews were to be updated and/or removed, and perhaps an agreement to not go to anymore hotel/restaurants owned by the same entity, then the suit would be settled/dropped instantly.

 

Kind of sad that it took a lawsuit for the offender to respond to the hotel's request for comment.

No, that's not what will happen. It's all about money. They will absolutely not drop it under any circumstances and he will either pay BIG money or end up in prison.

 

Having been through a defamation case myself, I have some experience with this both as a plaintiff and defendant. (very long story LOL).

 

Before the defamation case proceeds beyond the first hearing, the defendant will be given the opportunity to negotiate a settlement during a mediation session at the courthouse with the plaintiff and his lawyers presided over by a court appointed arbitrator. They have special rooms set aside for this. (I spent nearly a whole day in one of these rooms). Due to the defendant being a foreigner, they will probably appoint a judge as the arbitrator (as they did in my case). If they don't come to an agreement, the trial will proceed and he will be convicted, fined and go to prison. When his prison term is complete, he will be deported. His visa will be cancelled before the case proceeds, if the mediation session fails.

 

They will most certainly come to an agreement (alternative is prison) after negotiating a cash settlement along with some other agreements such as taking down all offending reviews and offering a public apology (and probably agreeing never to return to Koh Chang). This is a slam dunk case for the plaintiff. It's like taking candy from a baby.

 

Then, after making a cash settlement to get out of the criminal case, the plaintiff will start a civil case for damages. I'm guessing they will be seeking millions in compensation for the damage to their reputation. 

 

Mr Barnes is well and truly screwed. I would not want to be him. Hopefully he has plenty of cash to get himself out of this. It basically comes down to how much he is willing to pay to stay out of Thai prison. 

 

You can't blame the plaintiff for this. It's Thai law and if they can profit from it, they will. Mr Barnes gave them the perfect opportunity for a big payday, which will be very welcome in the current economic climate.

Edited September 27, 2020 by JensenZ

[Rancid]

5 hours ago, happyaussie said:

I know this resort and the family who own it are not the humble small business people they say. They are extremely well connected. 

No where else would the hotel be able to lay charges on someone for a negative review. instead, the hotel has the right to reply and give their version of events. There are also channels to have reviews removed.

However the guys review does seem over the top and vindictive. Certainly not what Thai tourism needs at the moment.  

A post that brings light to the situation rather than an opinion.

[Dart12]

This guy gives a bad name to Americans and probably deserves this.  I doubt this is his first time acting like a donkey's behind to the service industry employees
and towards business owners afterward.  Acting more like a little girl than a man, making up gossip and spreading it.

This business is getting what it deserves. Thhey are apparently no Saint either from previous reviews.  However, there is no need to jail people.  If this was false, the online companies will remove the reviews.  file civil suit if need be.

The law itself?   Reveiws are for the protection of consumers and the good of the good businesses.  The worldwide press coming from this may also do some good to get some changes made.

[andux]

What a bunch of high-school BS.

Edited September 27, 2020 by andux

[Dart12]

Two little peckers crowing loud lol.

now they each are getting the attention they thought they wanted.

Only it aint the good kind. 

[Thomas Hannah]

18 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Little bit advice to any business in any sector: don’t have your customers imprisoned. It isn’t a good look. 
 

People leave bad reviews. This is life. Explain why the review is wrong or at least try to settle it with the guest. This has now just made it much worse for the hotel. 
 

And before people say it’s the law or the police did it, etc, once you go to the police to file charges for someone writing bad reviews, you can safely assume they’ll be arrested if the case is accepted. That’s how filing complaints with the police works. 

No ,it does not in thailand.Its because the hotel is owned by ?.if a farang makes a complaint about ? to the police.Nothing happens.welcome to thailand.

[JensenZ]

11 minutes ago, NoComment said:

Expat should know better and why bother? He has not proved anything to anyone else!???

3 sides to the story; his siide, their side and the truth.

Unfortunately there is only one side to the story in a defamation case. What he published online is the ONLY story. Even if his complaints could be validated, it's irrelevant. Even the truth is not a defence here... this is Thai law. When you live here, you're under Thai law whether you like it or not.

[Pancho]

I just felt a chill go down my spine.

Brrrrrrr.........  Must be the weather.

 

Chit chat around the campfire is a second lockdown.

 

Makes good sense, let’s keep it safe out there!????

[geisha]

Unfair and libelous comments should be against the law. I have witnessed a man, who on being refused a takeaway , ( it was a restaurant and had no take away materials needed) screamed he would * let the world know what a bad restaurant this was and ruin them*.  He had been turned down very politely and there was no need at all for the scene he made in front of all the guests. There are people who are vindictive and are using the internet to vent their anger !!! By the way, he did what he menaced. 
Also, you don’t take a bottle of gin , or other drinks into a restaurant anywhere , corkage is quite usual.