COVID-19 is not going away soon or ever

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, PatrickC said:

 

Exactly - a vaccine is way too far off. Get on with life now. Enough waiting. What will be will be.

Its not that far off.

Continuing mitigation efforts for probably another year and a half or two will be worth it.

Mitigation measures are not the same as lockdowns!

[elliss]

23 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

The selfishness of many of this younger generation will result in them being known as the granny-killer generation.....

 

     Thatcherism  , gave birth to  the selfish  generation ..

       A great loss too British culture ..

       I am alright , granny/ gramps .  RIP .. 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by elliss

[VBF]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Its not that far off.

Continuing mitigation efforts for probably another year and a half or two will be worth it.

Mitigation measures are not the same as lockdowns!

How ridiculous - there'll be no businesses left by then!

 

I for one am willing to take a chance, knowing that for the majority, catching CV is not that serious - but very serious for a minority

That statement is unarguable whatever source you rely on.

 

Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious people isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life.

Edited October 20, 2020 by VBF

[Jingthing]

Support for very limited or even no use ever of lockdowns is not the same thing as support for doing nothing, in other words intentional mass homicide via herd immunity before wide adoption of a vaccine. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/prominent-hiv-aids-researcher-calls-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-mass-murder

 

Prominent HIV/AIDS researcher calls herd immunity against COVID-19 'mass murder'

Edited October 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[VBF]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Support for very limited or even no use ever of lockdowns is not the same thing as support for doing nothing, in other words intentional mass homicide via herd immunity before wide adoption of a vaccine. 

THERE I agree but it's the vulnerable who should be advised, not forced to shelter....not the entire population

Edited October 20, 2020 by VBF

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

How ridiculous - there'll be no businesses left by then!

 

I for one am willing to take a chance, knowing that for the majority, catching CV is not that serious - but very serious for a minority

Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious minority isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life.

No. Businesses can reopen but must use mitigation. The numbers of high risk people are just too high to realistically isolate for that long. Also consider so many people living in multi generational families and group housing poverty situations. Just freaking wear a mask!

Edited October 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, VBF said:

THERE I agree but it's the vulnerable who should be advised, not forced to shelter....not the entire population

Agree to disagree. I don't think that is realistic. Wearing masks is.

[VBF]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Agree to disagree. I don't think that is realistic. Wearing masks is.

We can agree to disagree (not for the first time!) but my point is that the people who are vulnerable could be advised what to do to protect themselves whilst the vast majority can go about their business. That way we all get our freedom back.

 

But @Jingthingare you or are you not in favour of lockdowns of any sort? To me they are overkill

 

Masks in crowds - OK irritating, but not damaging and might be efficacious - that I will concede.

 

UPDATE: As I have mentioned elsewhere on TVF, I hold my views despite being mid sixties, with an existing condition that might make me vulnerable - better to "crack on and take the risk" -  "you only die once...you should live every day"

Edited October 20, 2020 by VBF

[papa al]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:19 PM, allanos said:

 I have read that the DNA of covid-19 is 78% the same as its predecessor, yet a vaccine remains elusive.

Covid lacks DNA.

RNA only.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

I barely read any news but I just googled this and found information in the Sun and the Guardian in the UK about these dissenting scientists. It is not difficult to find information about them.

Makes sense. You barely read any news. And then reference the Sun. Too funny.

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, VBF said:

We can agree to disagree (not for the first time!) but my point is that the people who are vulnerable could be advised what to do to protect themselves whilst the vast majority can go about their business. That way we all get our freedom back.

 

But @Jingthingare you or are you not in favour of lockdowns of any sort? To me they are overkill

 

Masks in crowds - OK irritating, but not damaging and might be efficacious - that I will concede.

 

UPDATE: As I have mentioned elsewhere on TVF, I hold my views despite being mid sixties, with an existing condition that might make me vulnerable - better to "crack on and take the risk" -  "you only die once...you should live every day"

I already stated here that I agree with the current WHO position on lockdowns, that they should only be used in particularly severe outbreaks.

 

I vehemently disagree with you that the vast majority of people have nothing to worry about if they get infected. 

 

To wit

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-americans-have-underlying-condition-that-increases-covid19-risk

 

 

60% of Americans Have an Underlying Condition That Increases COVID-19 Risk

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Jingthing

[Jeffr2]

55 minutes ago, VBF said:

How ridiculous - there'll be no businesses left by then!

 

I for one am willing to take a chance, knowing that for the majority, catching CV is not that serious - but very serious for a minority

That statement is unarguable whatever source you rely on.

 

Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious people isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life.

It's relatively easy to get the virus under control. Read up on what Taiwan did. If all countries did this then life would be getting back to normal.

 

Until then, most are reluctant to go back to normal activities. Regardless of age. Though elderly and those with underlying conditions are the most concerned.

 

Let's not be so quick to throw these people under the bus.

 

 

[VBF]

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's relatively easy to get the virus under control. Read up on what Taiwan did. If all countries did this then life would be getting back to normal.

 

Until then, most are reluctant to go back to normal activities. Regardless of age. Though elderly and those with underlying conditions are the most concerned.

 

Let's not be so quick to throw these people under the bus.

 

I'm not...hence my comment "Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious people isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life." I've never suggested forcing anyone to do anything with which they're uncomfortable  - let's just have freedom of choice for all.

[VBF]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I already stated here that I agree with the current WHO position on lockdowns, that they should only be used in particularly severe outbreaks.

 

I vehemently disagree with you that the vast majority of people have nothing to worry about if they get infected. 

 

To wit

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/60-percent-of-americans-have-underlying-condition-that-increases-covid19-risk

 

 

60% of Americans Have an Underlying Condition That Increases COVID-19 Risk

 

That may be true (I don't know how reliable that site is) but that makes a little more sense than locking down - I failed to see where you objected to that.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, VBF said:

I'm not...hence my comment "Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious people isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life." I've never suggested forcing anyone to do anything with which they're uncomfortable  - let's just have freedom of choice for all.

That's not what Taiwan did.

[tribalfusion001]

Do as Thailand does, hardly test and it goes away. Another point is the Ct value of the PCR tests just picks up far too many people who are positive and therefore a case without being infectious. Dr Kary Mullis the inventor of the PCR test said if you look hard enough you can find anything with a PCR test and this is what is happening now, discovering lots of cases of mostly non infectious people with very low viral loads. The PCR test is being used at too high Ct value of 40+, when research shows that under 32x Ct value will pick up infectious people with higher viral loads.

 

After 10 months of this situation I still have only met one positive case and the destruction of economies still carries on.

[sezze]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

 

I've took US data , since many look at those numbers before , i can find plenty from other countries also .

You just lucky if you haven't met a lot of persons with covid yet .

[VBF]

3 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Do as Thailand does, hardly test and it goes away. Another point is the Ct value of the PCR tests just picks up far too many people who are positive and therefore a case without being infectious. Dr Kary Mullis the inventor of the PCR test said if you look hard enough you can find anything with a PCR test and this is what is happening now, discovering lots of cases of mostly non infectious people with very low viral loads. The PCR test is being used at too high Ct value of 40+, when research shows that under 32x Ct value will pick up infectious people with higher viral loads.

 

After 10 months of this situation I still have only met one positive case and the destruction of economies still carries on.

And...... positive cases are not necessarily sick people!  They just happen to be carrying the virus, so using those numbers to indicate anything else is purely misleading, at the very least.

[Jeffr2]

9 hours ago, VBF said:

I'm not...hence my comment "Therefore as I've said before....let the vulnerable and / or cautious people isolate voluntarily and the rest of us get on with life." I've never suggested forcing anyone to do anything with which they're uncomfortable  - let's just have freedom of choice for all.

Why not buckle down for 2 weeks and let EVERYBODY get on with their life? 

 

Sure, the vast majority of deaths are elderly or the sick.  But many young, healthy people are dying and suffering potentially life long consequences also. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/18/health/long-term-effects-young-people-covid-wellness/index.html

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-people-are-risk-severe-covid-19-illness-n1240761

Edited October 21, 2020 by Jeffr2

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Look.

Let's get real. 

At this point Thailand doesn't need to do any Covid-19 lockdowns and hopefully never will have to.

Indeed the WHO has adjusted its guidance on lockdowns suggesting they should be reserved only for very severe situations. 

I happen to agree with the current WHO guidance.

But as we wait for a safe and effective vaccine to both exist and be widely used mitigation efforts will continue to be needed.

Masks,  social distancing, limiting crowd sizes particularly inside. Focusing on any outbreak areas with mass testing and forced isolation of the infected.

Not really too much to ask!

Opening up totally now without mitigation measures before wide adoption of a vaccine is massively irresponsible. 

I was looking at the protests in Bkk on tv and not much "social distancing" or "limiting crowd size" going on.

IMO people only comply with the dictat as long as it's not inconvenient.

Edited October 21, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was looking at the protests in Bkk on tv and not much "social distancing" or "limiting crowd size" going on.

IMO people only comply with the dictat as long as it's not inconvenient.

Outside is safer than inside. Were they wearing masks?

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, sezze said:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

 

I've took US data , since many look at those numbers before , i can find plenty from other countries also .

You just lucky if you haven't met a lot of persons with covid yet .

About 5 million lucky people in NZ then. Not many infected so not many will have met an infected person.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

 

Number of confirmed and probable cases	1,912
Number of recovered cases	1,831

[polpott]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Outside is safer than inside. Were they wearing masks?

They were outside and a large majority wearing masks.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

Already tried this earlier in the year. It failed. Time to move on.

Failed?  Where?  Worked out great here in Thailand.  Failed in the USA because they never did it.

 

You need to read better news sources.  You've said you don't read the news and it shows.

[onthedarkside]

Several posts, and replies to them, containing and/or linking to false coronavirus information have been removed.

 

Please see the pertinent forum rule that applies to this topic:

 

UPDATED NOTICE TO MEMBERS POSTING ON THAIVISA AMID COVID-19 - 25 MARCH 2020

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Any posts or topics which our moderation team deems to be scaremongering, deliberately misleading or has been posted to deliberately distort information will be removed without warning. You may also be subject to a posting suspension or have your profile permanently suspended from the site.

 

[scammed]

just as precipitation, drought, fire, flood, hot and cold,

has been, are, and will be part of nature,

so too will death be part of life.

 

So far, sweden has not filled its yearly quota of deaths,

as to not be flooded by pensioners,

and it doesnt look like this year is going to be different from any other year, its biology.

the drama queens screaming murder are taking statistics out of context,

no different from the modus operandi of climate change influencers.

interestingly they are also using the same ad hominem attacks on 'deniers',

like fascists and denialists as a special reference to holy coast,

which may indicate its the same group

behind both campaigns

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

Edited October 21, 2020 by scammed

[polpott]

19 minutes ago, scammed said:

just as precipitation, drought, fire, flood, hot and cold,

has been, are, and will be part of nature,

so too will death be part of life.

 

So far, sweden has not filled its yearly quota of deaths,

as to not be flooded by pensioners,

and it doesnt look like this year is going to be different from any other year, its biology.

the drama queens screaming murder are taking statistics out of context,

no different from the modus operandi of climate change influencers.

interestingly they are also using the same ad hominem attacks on 'deniers',

like fascists and denialists as a special reference to holy coast,

which may indicate its the same group

behind both campaigns

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

Here are the statistics you need to be looking at. Compare Sweden with its immediate neighbours. From the same source as yours.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/

 

Sweden:   Cumulative Covid cases 96K      Cumulative Covid deaths 5.9k

 

Norway:   Cumulative Covid cases  13k     Cumulative Covid deaths 267

 

Denmark: Cumulative Covid cases  30k     Cumulative Covid deaths 643

 

Finland:   Cumulative Covid cases   10k    Cumulative Covid deaths 346

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So-called lockdowns are only necessary when the coronavirus is allowed to spread fast and widely because other preventive measures like mask-wearing and social distancing are not widely followed.

 

If people let down on mask wearing and social distancing, the CV situation will get worse and governments will be forced to escalate things to lockdowns. It's the best argument I know for continuing mask wear and social distancing, because those things help avoid lockdowns.

 

Also, it's not that the lockdowns themselves failed. They're only effective for as long as they're maintained, and as long as the public abides by those rules. Once you let up on any of the above, the virus is going to do what it does if left unchecked.... SPREAD!

 

[polpott]

10 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

And unless you're China, keeping lockdowns in place and enforcing them is impossible. We're simply not made for it. So time to move on and live with covid. 

Worked well in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

And unless you're China, keeping lockdowns in place and enforcing them is impossible. We're simply not made for it. So time to move on and live with covid. 

 

You're conveniently (and probably intentionally) ignoring the fact that widespread use of masks and social distancing is generally going to prevent significant spread of the virus...

 

But when you talk about "move on and live", you appear to be meaning that the public at large should just do nothing in the way of precautions and let the virus rip into anyone and everyone it can attach itself to.

 

It's a convenient and false strawman argument that virus skeptics are and have been using.... while the world's CV virus case and fatalities tally keeps rising.

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK