Analysis - Trump's legacy: A more divided America, a more unsettled world

[PatOngo]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and? He was still impeached ( but not convicted ).

Donny boy was impeached twice and served only one term, spells loser to me! Bill blew a mean sax even though he did'nt inhale! 

[Sujo]

6 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Donny boy was impeached twice and served only one term, spells loser to me! Bill blew a mean sax even though he did'nt inhale! 

well bill was a well liked politician with good policies and his cigar had permission.

[PatOngo]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

well bill was a well liked politician with good policies and his cigar had permission.

I thought the cigar thing was really cool, so did Mon, apparently.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

well bill was a well liked politician with good policies and his cigar had permission.

Even I liked Bill. It is his wife I have a problem with.

How did she ever think those awful pants suits were a good idea? Also it didn't help that she insulted half the voting population.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even I liked Bill. It is his wife I have a problem with.

How did she ever think those awful pants suits were a good idea? Also it didn't help that she insulted half the voting population.

I liked Bill, but won't hold her pant suits against her.  Nor for the term deplorables.  Sorry, but as has been proven with the recent coup attempt, she was spot on.

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even I liked Bill. It is his wife I have a problem with.

How did she ever think those awful pants suits were a good idea? Also it didn't help that she insulted half the voting population.

I will not judge her on her choice of clothes. Neither should you considering you refuse to judge trump on what he says.

 

Only on policies right.

 

Though i agree she was a terrible candidate, had no connection to people. Just seemed fake.

[Sujo]

8 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

I thought the cigar thing was really cool, so did Mon, apparently.

I hope he inhaled.

[Virt]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I'm assuming that you're referring to the economy because I can't think of anything else significant that happened under Trump's watch  that was good for Americans . Just because a president is in office when the economy is doing well that doesn't mean the economy is doing well because of that president. That goes for Democrats as well as Republicans. There's no evidence at all that is tax breaks actually benefited the economy. if you look at a graph showing GDP growth from the Obama era to the Trump era you'll see very little change. The best year of economic growth under Trump was 2018 and that was due to both the sugar high of the tax cuts and the massive increase in spending. In fact GDP growth went down from 2018 to 2019.

So what good things do you believe Trump did?

 

Would you believe in any of this even if it's from NY times?

Some good, some bad, but i'm not sure how much credit NY times has.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/opinion/fact-check-trump.html

 

If not Try and read this from BBC where US historians speak their mind, where some point out some ok things, but also a lot of bad things.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640427

 

I think it's important to take off the coloured glasses and look at the whole picture and not just hate Trump because he is Trump,

and i will say the same thing in 4 years from now when Trump supporters try to slander Biden.

 

I'm just trying to stay neutral and when i look at the different tests i took, about Biden Vs Trump politics, i was about 50/50 so both Democrats and Republicans has things i like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Though i agree she was a terrible candidate, had no connection to people. Just seemed fake.

Whilst on the "fake" note, I watched Melania Trumps final farewell message, and almost gagged on it.

 

What a load of cobblers, from a heartless individual who would care more about her clothes than the American population, or any other human being for that matter.

 

And reading a speech from a teleprompter, with that speech being written by a trump enabler, made it even more repulsive.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, Virt said:

 

Would you believe in any of this even if it's from NY times?

Some good, some bad, but i'm not sure how much credit NY times has.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/opinion/fact-check-trump.html

 

If not Try and read this from BBC where US historians speak their mind, where some point out some ok things, but also a lot of bad things.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640427

 

I think it's important to take off the coloured glasses and look at the whole picture and not just hate Trump because he is Trump,

and i will say the same thing in 4 years from now when Trump supporters try to slander Biden.

 

I'm just trying to stay neutral and when i look at the different tests i took, about Biden Vs Trump politics, i was about 50/50 so both Democrats and Republicans has things i like.

I hear ya, but he did so many bad things, and said so many bad things, that's it's hard for many of us to congratulate him on the few things he did accomplish.  And some of his accomplishments were horrible.  Roll backs on environmental laws, banning Muslims, getting poorly qualified candidates into judicial positions, etc, etc, etc. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet........................ over 70 million people voted for him.

Seems the Democrat candidate was so bad, TWICE, that millions preferred an incompetent, vindictive, mentally unstable, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, traitorous egomaniac over them.

I believe it shows that there are a lot of mentally unstable people in the USA, who would vote for such a deplorable excuse for a human being.

[Walker88]

53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In my experience everyone lies. My wife was a champion liar.

I expect politicians to lie, so I go with their policies, and not with what they say.

When the lies lead to violence, when the lies lead to death, when the lies fool the gullible and delusional, they become a threat to peace and stability.

 

45 lied about Covid. Hundreds of thousands are now dead, including people who attended his Superspreader Rallies, heard their 'messiah' call it a Dem Hoax, and dismissed masks as either unnecessary or unmanly.

 

45 lied about the election. That DIRECTLY led to the terrorist assault on the Capitol, where the US is just lucky many of its elected officials were not assassinated.

 

As for policies, what policies?  Folks always say that, but few point out what that means.  Tax cuts that exploded the deficit? Trade wars that cost taxpayers a ton of money. because---contrary to 45's claims---China did not pay for tariffs, US customers did.  Socialism for farmers hurt by his trade wars?  Dirtier air and water?  Kids in cages?

 

45 failed. He blew up the economy, the deficit, public health, America's reputation in the world, and domestic social cohesion.

 

Without a doubt, history will view him as the Worst President Ever.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet........................ over 70 million people voted for him.

Seems the Democrat candidate was so bad, TWICE, that millions preferred an incompetent, vindictive, mentally unstable, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, traitorous egomaniac over them.

Or for other reasons ‘an incompetent, vindictive, mentally unstable, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, traitorous egomaniac’ was exactly what those who voted for Trump

wanted.

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet........................ over 70 million people voted for him.

Seems the Democrat candidate was so bad, TWICE, that millions preferred an incompetent, vindictive, mentally unstable, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, traitorous egomaniac over them.

 

this has me confused.  why point out how many voted for trump, when his percentage of the popular vote was smaller, in both elections?

 

the democrat candidate was so bad, twice, that millions more voted for the democrat (or NOT trump) than voted for trump?  that implies trump was considered worse, twice, although his election advisors were better.........once.

 

 

note:  my vote in '16 went to "NOT HER"

[rudi49jr]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

NB: to avoid having to put IMO after everything I write, everything I write on this post is my opinion.

 

Let's never forget that Trump has not started any wars during his term- a huge achievement. Other than that, 3 conservative judges on SCOTUS has cemented his legacy for decades to come.

 

In the future, after the mania has receded and calmer minds evaluate, Trump will be seen as a great president for all the great things he achieved in only 3 years ( the last year was basically lost to corona ) while being assailed on all sides for everything he did. The establishment, the woke left and the media were relentless in their attacks against him, and he was diverted by a Russian investigation ( which cost millions and did not remove him ) for too long ( he should have sacked Sessions the day he recused himself, but hindsight is brilliant ). Despite all the attacks, what he achieved was substantial and productive- I doubt a normal politician could have achieved half of it in 8 years.

Were it not for corona I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now.

Trump was ( and still is ) a dominating presence, and I doubt he is going away any time soon. Any that thought his losing the election would be the end of Trump are going to be hugely disappointed. Never forget that Trump was not elected because of himself, but as a revolt against the Washington establishment, and that enormous mass of disaffected voters is not going away quietly.  If Biden does not do something to satisfy the millions that voted against him, the anti establishment movement is only going to grow. If he doesn't get it right, in 2022 he's going to lose congress. The Democrat majority is very small, and will not take much to lose it.

I doubt that Biden can withstand the hard left, and policies enacted will not endear the population to him ( just wait till he puts up taxes on the middle class ), but time ( and the 2022 election ) will tell.

I doubt Trump will be convicted in the senate, and I hope he will be running again for POTUS in 2024. If he doesn't run, I expect him to be involved in primary selections, and a supremacy of Trump allied GOP candidates.

Roll on 2022 and 2024 .

 

Over some considerable time, many Trump hater posters have made some pretty outlandish claims about Trump in the final days eg he was going to start a military coup, that he was going to refuse to leave the White House, that Melania was going to divorce him, that he was going to start a nuclear war, that he was going to start a war to divert attention. None of those have eventuated .

 

 

 

For someone who claims to be a Kiwi without any vested interest in American politics or Trump, you sure spend a hell of a lot of time and energy defending that glorified conman. Are you sure you're not just experiencing a huge man-crush?

 

I won't go into all the "great things" Trump has achieved according to you, but you did say this: "Were it not for corona I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now". I guess you mean "Were it not for his abyssmal handling of the corona pandemic, resulting in over 400,000 deaths, and making wearing a face mask a political thing, I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now."

 

Not everyone who criticises Trump is a Trump hater, but I will admit there is an awful lot to hate about the man. His limitless selfishness and narcissism come to mind. That he only cares about two things, his ego and his bank account. That he bilked thousands and thousands of small businesses and ordinary citizens out of billions of dollars. That he lies about EVERYTHING. That he cheats, he hasn't played an honest golf game in his life: he kicks his ball to a better position so many times that his caddies started calling him Pelé. His constant need to verbally attack, belittle and put down people who don't agree with him, or who have done him wrong (in his perception, anyway). That he is such a petty little man that he started screaming "rigged election" long before the actual election, keeps it up to this day, and doesn't even have the balls to congaratulate Biden on his win and attend his inauguration, because that is what a REAL man would do.

 

I could go on, but I think you catch the drift.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Trump was the first president for decades that didn't start a war.

 

Well in fact he did... Pretty much a U.S. civil war, as most recently illustrated by the recent assault on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters in an attempted insurrection to overturn the selection of a lawfully elected incoming president.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

this has me confused.  why point out how many voted for trump, when his percentage of the popular vote was smaller, in both elections?

 

the democrat candidate was so bad, twice, that millions more voted for the democrat (or NOT trump) than voted for trump?  that implies trump was considered worse, twice, although his election advisors were better.........once.

 

 

note:  my vote in '16 went to "NOT HER"

What policies of Trump's did you prefer over Clinton's?

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but while masks were worn by many outside, where I lived it was by no means a majority.

The cheap masks they wore didn't stop viruses either.

Lower transmission in Thailand vs USA could be as simple as diet. Americans eat a lot of processed junk food. Americans are also apparently one of the most obese countries in the world which might have something to do with it. Also Thailand is hot year around, while the US is not. Many other countries also have high infection rates, despite lockdowns and mask wearing.

You don't know where I live in Thailand? It is quite clearly stated under my nom-de-plume. I suggest your prescription, medical or optical,  may need changing.

You'll get no argument from me that diet, climate, previous vaccinations and cultural differences could be some of the variables influencing COVID transmission. Having said that, it's a fairly weak excuse to use for not wearing masks.

Mask discipline in Chiang Rai is pretty good. I'm quite sure if I was to enter Big C or Central Festival without a mask, I'd either be told to leave, or get the stinkeye from every Thai.

[Jeffr2]

Ouch. This has to hurt Trump’s fragile ego.

 

https://www.fox6now.com/news/vice-president-mike-pence-will-not-attend-trumps-sendoff-event-will-attend-bidens-inauguration

 

Vice President Mike Pence will not attend Trump's sendoff event, will attend Biden's inauguration

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Australia does.

Wrong. You have to turn up to vote, and be checked off the electoral roll. You can leave the ballot paper blank, spoil it, or write anything you want on it. It's a secret ballot, no-one knows who you are.

If you have a reasonable excuse for not voting, such as illness or being overseas, no problem.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You don't know where I live in Thailand? It is quite clearly stated under my nom-de-plume. I suggest your prescription, medical or optical,  may need changing.

You'll get no argument from me that diet, climate, previous vaccinations and cultural differences could be some of the variables influencing COVID transmission. Having said that, it's a fairly weak excuse to use for not wearing masks.

Mask discipline in Chiang Rai is pretty good. I'm quite sure if I was to enter Big C or Central Festival without a mask, I'd either be told to leave, or get the stinkeye from every Thai.

I do wish posters read everything relevant before attacking me, and Chiang Rai is not a village.

 

The mask comment was in response to a post about mask wearing culture BEFORE corona, not now.

Perhaps it is you that needs better glasses.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

For someone who claims to be a Kiwi without any vested interest in American politics or Trump, you sure spend a hell of a lot of time and energy defending that glorified conman. Are you sure you're not just experiencing a huge man-crush?

 

 

You won't find a single post from me stating that I have no interest in American politics or Trump. However I doubt you will apologise for telling lies about me on here. Your lot never do when I've called them out on lies about me.

 

I started out supporting Trump because he wasn't her, but came to agree with most of his policies and actions such as withdrawing from the  Paris climate thing that doesn't include China, the ghastly Pacific treaty, immigration and border security.

I also liked that he wasn't a smarmy two faced typical Washington establishment politician and spoke his mind. That he supported the military and didn't start a war also goes in the positive column.

No one is perfect, and I did not agree with everything he did, but nobody gets everything they want. I don't have man crushes on anyone, but I admire him for his energy ( something seemingly lacking from his successor ) and commitment, even if I don't agree with some of his tactics, such as using twitter ( for the exact reason that they could cut him off ). He should have used something more independent of big tech, which made no secret of being against him

 

Lot of <deleted> kissing going on on CNN, BBC, Al Jazira this morning, and even a bit on Fox. I had to go to RT for something less nauseating. I liked one comment that "there will be no healing, there will be no unity" as it is IMO the truth. America is divided and most of the things Biden has said he will do is not going to unify the country. Stopping the impeachment trial would be a good start, but he's doing a Pontius Pilate on that.

 

The best speech I heard this morning was from Greg Gutfeld on Fox's The Five show. Near the start for those that wish to check it out.

 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I had to go to RT for something less nauseating

The official propaganda media outlet for the violent, corrupt and anti democratic Russian government who were know supporters of the corrupt anti democratic trump regime. trump even provided a pardon to the anti democratic Bannon, prior to trial, another corrupted individual trump was in bed with for years promoting conspiracy theories and lies. 

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

You won't find a single post from me stating that I have no interest in American politics or Trump. However I doubt you will apologise for telling lies about me on here. Your lot never do when I've called them out on lies about me.

 

I started out supporting Trump because he wasn't her, but came to agree with most of his policies and actions such as withdrawing from the  Paris climate thing that doesn't include China, the ghastly Pacific treaty, immigration and border security.

I also liked that he wasn't a smarmy two faced typical Washington establishment politician and spoke his mind. That he supported the military and didn't start a war also goes in the positive column.

No one is perfect, and I did not agree with everything he did, but nobody gets everything they want. I don't have man crushes on anyone, but I admire him for his energy ( something seemingly lacking from his successor ) and commitment, even if I don't agree with some of his tactics, such as using twitter ( for the exact reason that they could cut him off ). He should have used something more independent of big tech, which made no secret of being against him

 

Lot of <deleted> kissing going on on CNN, BBC, Al Jazira this morning, and even a bit on Fox. I had to go to RT for something less nauseating. I liked one comment that "there will be no healing, there will be no unity" as it is IMO the truth. America is divided and most of the things Biden has said he will do is not going to unify the country. Stopping the impeachment trial would be a good start, but he's doing a Pontius Pilate on that.

 

The best speech I heard this morning was from Greg Gutfeld on Fox's The Five show. Near the start for those that wish to check it out.

 

He wasn't a smarmy two faced typical Washington establishment politician?  So you knew nothing about Trump before he ran for office?  The thousands of lawsuits for dirty deeds?  Not paying contractors?  Going bankrupt numerous times costing average Americans their investments?  Etc, etc, etc?

 

He's always been a smarmy two faced businessman.  That's been known for decades.

 

His racist, lie and hate filled Twitter feed?  You liked that?  And believed what was said?  Come on.  That's bigly bizarre.

 

RT is 100% owned by Putin.  Sad times when supposedly patriotic Americans watch a news outlet that's filled with propaganda.

 

Greg Gutfield?  Talk about a biased person spewing lies.

 

Boggles my mind.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

And say goodbye to the USD.  Biden’s free spending penchant scares currency traders away, it’s risk on now.

And yet, Wall Street said Biden would be better for the economy than Trump.  Who would have guessed.  You really need a better source for your news.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies reported and removed.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

His racist, lie and hate filled Twitter feed?  You liked that?  And believed what was said?  Come on.  That's bigly bizarre.

 

RT is 100% owned by Putin.  Sad times when supposedly patriotic Americans watch a news outlet that's filled with propaganda.

 

Greg Gutfield?  Talk about a biased person spewing lies.

LOL. Talk about missing the point!

 

I never read anything on twitter and I stopped using that face thingy about 1 day after making the mistake of going on it. TVF is about the closest thing to social media I used. Sooooo, I don't believe anything on twitter or any other social media platform because I don't use them, at all, so I have no idea what is on them except what is reported on news channels.

 

My comment about RT was specific to seeing something that was not nauseatingly <deleted> kissing, so perhaps you could confine yourself to responding to the subject of <deleted> kissing, and not a diatribe about RT and Putin per se. Far as I'm concerned the main purveyor of propaganda over the past 4 years has been CNN ( my opinion )- I don't normally watch it but have done so the past election season as it is always a good idea to know what the opposition is up to. Happily I can now stop watch it.

 

Gutfeld may be biased, but at least he has a sense of humour, something that is sadly ( apparently ) lacking in your dear leader.

BTW being biased doesn't mean that what he says isn't true.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Talk about missing the point!

 

I never read anything on twitter and I stopped using that face thingy about 1 day after making the mistake of going on it. TVF is about the closest thing to social media I used. Sooooo, I don't believe anything on twitter or any other social media platform because I don't use them, at all, so I have no idea what is on them except what is reported on news channels.

 

My comment about RT was specific to seeing something that was not nauseatingly <deleted> kissing, so perhaps you could confine yourself to responding to the subject of <deleted> kissing, and not a diatribe about RT and Putin per se. Far as I'm concerned the main purveyor of propaganda over the past 4 years has been CNN ( my opinion )- I don't normally watch it but have done so the past election season as it is always a good idea to know what the opposition is up to. Happily I can now stop watch it.

 

Gutfeld may be biased, but at least he has a sense of humour, something that is sadly ( apparently ) lacking in your dear leader.

BTW being biased doesn't mean that what he says isn't true.

OK.  Seems I did miss the point on Twitter.  IMHO, the #1 reason he isn't president now.  Apologies.  Again. LOL.

 

I've tried to watch RT a few times, but it's just so biased and filled with lies and propaganda.  I don't know how you did it.  You don't like CNN because they tell the truth about Trump.  And you are a Trump supporter.  Got it.  Sad times when I hear this from people.  CNN is biased, just like Fox, just like RT.  But unlike those, it doesn't publish lies.  The others?  All the time.

 

I can't watch any opinion person on Fox.  Just too many lies and misleading statements.

 

I did watch Fox last night during the inaugration.  I was amazed at the praise they had for Biden!  Trump's supporters must be fleeing that channel in droves, heading over to OANN, InfoWars, etc.  They love to live in their echo chamber.

[Walker88]

Remember when the security clearances of some people were supposedly pulled by 45, because those former officials (CIA, FBI, DNI) were critical of him?

 

So incompetent was 45 and his Administration that the clearances were never actually pulled, because nobody knew how to do it.

 

John Brennan never lost his TS/SCI. I suspect the same is true for McCabe, Comey and Clapper, but I haven't spoken with them.

 

OTOH, I assure you gone already are any clearances held up until yesterday by jared, ivanka, miller, grennell, pompeo, navarro, ratcliffe and a host of others. Also, none of those people can, or will, be trusted going forward.

[heybruce]

On 1/19/2021 at 6:08 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

NB: to avoid having to put IMO after everything I write, everything I write on this post is my opinion.

 

Let's never forget that Trump has not started any wars during his term- a huge achievement. Other than that, 3 conservative judges on SCOTUS has cemented his legacy for decades to come.

 

In the future, after the mania has receded and calmer minds evaluate, Trump will be seen as a great president for all the great things he achieved in only 3 years ( the last year was basically lost to corona ) while being assailed on all sides for everything he did. The establishment, the woke left and the media were relentless in their attacks against him, and he was diverted by a Russian investigation ( which cost millions and did not remove him ) for too long ( he should have sacked Sessions the day he recused himself, but hindsight is brilliant ). Despite all the attacks, what he achieved was substantial and productive- I doubt a normal politician could have achieved half of it in 8 years.

Were it not for corona I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now.

Trump was ( and still is ) a dominating presence, and I doubt he is going away any time soon. Any that thought his losing the election would be the end of Trump are going to be hugely disappointed. Never forget that Trump was not elected because of himself, but as a revolt against the Washington establishment, and that enormous mass of disaffected voters is not going away quietly.  If Biden does not do something to satisfy the millions that voted against him, the anti establishment movement is only going to grow. If he doesn't get it right, in 2022 he's going to lose congress. The Democrat majority is very small, and will not take much to lose it.

I doubt that Biden can withstand the hard left, and policies enacted will not endear the population to him ( just wait till he puts up taxes on the middle class ), but time ( and the 2022 election ) will tell.

I doubt Trump will be convicted in the senate, and I hope he will be running again for POTUS in 2024. If he doesn't run, I expect him to be involved in primary selections, and a supremacy of Trump allied GOP candidates.

Roll on 2022 and 2024 .

 

Over some considerable time, many Trump hater posters have made some pretty outlandish claims about Trump in the final days eg he was going to start a military coup, that he was going to refuse to leave the White House, that Melania was going to divorce him, that he was going to start a nuclear war, that he was going to start a war to divert attention. None of those have eventuated .

 

The only "achievement" you mention, as opposed to opinions, is that Trump didn't start a war.  Neither did Obama, Clinton, Carter, Nixon, Johnson, and many others.  Getting involved in a war in progress is not starting a war, and Trump definitely got involved in the war in Yemen by supplying Saudi Arabia and providing diplomatic cover for the war crimes being committed.