Analysis - Trump's legacy: A more divided America, a more unsettled world

[Chomper Higgot]

Trump’s legacy is going to have a few chapters added in the coming months as criminal investigations into his conduct commence.

 

 

[Stargeezr]

I just hope that the USA, the country can survive and get the corona virus under control.

  Maybe they will quit the big gatherings without masks. Maybe they will, go help the

hospitals and medical places where way too many people are sick with the virus.

  Maybe they will put away their guns and take up shovels etc and try to repair some of the

damage that was recently caused.  Maybe they will collectively go after all the extremist

groups that freely exist in the USA. I doubt that in the next 2 years there will be much of a 

change, but baby steps, baby steps.  Trumps Legacy will be talked about for a long time

it just will take a long while for the various processes to conclude and to happen.

I am hopeful that,  2021 and 2022 be a very bad start for the future of The Donald.  I will be watching.

Geezer

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, J Town said:

There has been an obvious explosion on this topic. It will most likely be one of the last times we get to come together to discuss the lame duck traitor. I can feel the excitement in the air, on the air, around the world. We're putting a deplorable man out of office, hopefully forever. Even more, his sins will be exposed to the world very soon. My sincere desire is everyone will look at his crimes and admit what an iceberg of poop he is (credit to Jingthing for the iceberg thing).

I'm reminded of Paul Keating, a former Prime Minister of Australia famous for his cutting wit. IMO he came up with the best aphorism for Trump many years ago, and Trump supporters should take note.

"You can't polish a turd".

[Andrew Dwyer]

Trump was considered eccentric when elected 4 years ago but it has become obvious that he is delusional and in increasing intensity culminating in the “ I’ve won the election “ statement on Nov 4th and igniting the flames of the Capitol storming as his final act of “ power “.

What I cannot understand is his followers believing his every word and repeating the lies as if they were true !!

It’s almost like a cult with Trump as the maniacal leader brainwashing his followers !!

[Isaan sailor]

Trump negotiated with Mexico and Central American governments to discourage the hordes of illegal immigrants from reaching the border.  And for those that did—many were returned to their home countries.  He also made good on his pledge to build a wall (450 miles).

Notice now the hoards moving north from Honduras because they think the Biden administration will welcome them with open arms.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, J Town said:

There has been an obvious explosion on this topic. It will most likely be one of the last times we get to come together to discuss the lame duck traitor. I can feel the excitement in the air, on the air, around the world. We're putting a deplorable man out of office, hopefully forever. Even more, his sins will be exposed to the world very soon. My sincere desire is everyone will look at his crimes and admit what an iceberg of poop he is (credit to Jingthing for the iceberg thing).

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

[Eric Loh]

Trump undermined democracy, assaulted the rule of law, mock the constitution, trampled on traditions and leave the country deeply divided and in fear. That's his legacy. All bad nothing good. 

[userabcd]

Honest question, what is the meaning of 45?

Edited January 20, 2021 by userabcd

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

And why not, the indictment, trial and imprisonment of a former POTUS is another ‘Trump first’ we have to look forward to. The media will very rightly cover every tiny detail.

 

If it helps get the truth of Trump out in the open then I’m all for it.

 

Biden meanwhile will govern for all Americans.

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Trump was considered eccentric when elected 4 years ago but it has become obvious that he is delusional and in increasing intensity culminating in the “ I’ve won the election “ statement on Nov 4th and igniting the flames of the Capitol storming as his final act of “ power “.

What I cannot understand is his followers believing his every word and repeating the lies as if they were true !!

It’s almost like a cult with Trump as the maniacal leader brainwashing his followers !!

Step by step 45 followed the autocratic leadership wannabe cook book. Start with lies from day one (number of people attending his inauguration), continue with bigger and bigger lies, attack ANYONE who disagrees, attack the media etc.

 

Unfortunately Fox/OAN/Newsmax repeated his lies daily for over four years. Holding 45 accountable for his crimes from tax cheating to high treason MUST be done. If he isn't, then the next autocratic leadership wannabe (who will most CERTAINLY be smarter) will do the same thing and perhaps kill democracy.

[Berkshire]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

Agree that Trump will still be in the news....because he just got impeached.  The senate trial is looming and will appropriately be covered at length.  And then there are the civil and criminal investigations.  Many of us would like Trump to just disappear like a fart in the wind.  But he's going to be getting a lot of attention and not for the reasons he'd prefer.  Ex-Presidents being indicted will always be big news. 

[kingdong]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He might have:

 

Acted in the warnings he was given but ignored.

Promoted the measures the scientists who advise him recommended.

Enacted the defense production act to produce the materials, equipment and supplies  necessary to fight the pandemic.

Not promoted quack cures.

Not politicized the public health measures advised by the scientists employed to provide advice on public health.

Not undermined public health messages.

Not organized mass gatherings at which he and his followers refused to follow public health advice.

 

The list goes on.

So does the hindsight,i could have been a multi millionaire tonight but i put down the wrong numbers on my lottery ticket.

[J Town]

Just now, Berkshire said:

Agree that Trump will still be in the news....because he just got impeached.  The senate trial is looming and will appropriately be covered at length.  And then there are the civil and criminal investigations.  Many of us would like Trump to just disappear like a fart in the wind.  But he's going to be getting a lot of attention and not for the reasons he'd prefer.  Ex-Presidents being indicted will always be big news. 

This is where I strongly disagree with James Comey, former FBI director. He says we should just let the slimeball slither down the toilet. No - hold him accountable, otherwise other slimeballs will be encouraged to do a repeat.

[Andrew Dwyer]

6 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Honest question, what is the meaning of 45?

In a list of the most efficient presidents of the United States he came in at number 45 !

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, kingdong said:

So does the hindsight,i could have been a multi millionaire tonight but i put down the wrong numbers on my lottery ticket.

It wasn’t a lottery, it was/is a pandemic and the responses Trump failed to take, ignored or ridiculed were advised by arguably the very best scientists in the field of public health on the planet.

 

400,000 Americans paid the price.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[spidermike007]

Let us face. Supporter or not, admit Trump was failure on nearly every level. And that he is a major loser. He loses, at nearly everything he touches. Let us examine that a bit. 17 of his businesses have failed in the past few  decades. Some at huge losses. Trump Steaks, Trump Shuttle Airline ($120 million in losses between 1988 and 1990), GoTrump, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump University, Trump Ice, The New Jersey Generals, Tour de Trump, Trump Network, Trump Magazine, Trumped!. Many businesses that licensed his name went bankrupt, or went out of business. And he had between four and six major bankruptcies (depending on the source), including the Trump Taj Mahal (which he spent $1.2 billion building, and was $3 billion in debt within a year of opening), Trump's Castle, Trump Place Hotel (which was very successful prior to Trump buying it in 1988, and he managed to put it into $550 million in debt by 1992!), Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts ($1.8 billion in debt by 2004, bankrupt in 2009) , and Trump Entertainment Resorts. There are likely others. And this does not take into account the 3,600 lawsuits he was involved in as of the time he took office, the vast majority of which were filed by small contractors against his companies for non payment, or total default. Many of these contractors were crushed. It is part of his M.O. 
 
Nearly anything with his name on it, and his association with it, fails. And that will be even more so, after he loses the November 3rd election. His name will remain radioactive, the the rest of his life, and the mini empire will continue to dwindle. During the period from 1985 to 1989, three years of which were boom year in NY real estate, he somehow managed to lose $359 million. Between 1990 and 1991 he lost $517 million. And between 1992 and 1995 he again managed to lose $286 million. 
 

His base has been dwindling since the election. Alot of conservative friends and family I have been speaking with, agree Biden won, and the fraud thing is a bit much, and a sure sign of a sore loser. I think the DC fiasco backfired for sure, and he lost alot of his "middle of the road, sensible, hard working, decent people" base. In addition to nearly the entire GOP establishment, which he had wrapped around his finger. It was an enormous miscalculation, and an act of sheer desperation by an unhinged madman. Now, with the permanent ban on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, he is almost a 305lb. zero. Almost. I predict his influence will continue to wane, once he is ingloriously ushered out of the white house in humiliation. Corporate America is adding its weight in response to the insurgency at the Capitol building on January 6, and are pulling out from any association with the Trump brand after the storming of the capitol incidentwhich economists say will have a profound medium and long-term effect on his business interests. Recently, Signature Bank closed Trump’s personal accounts and the PGA of America stopped plans to hold its 2022 championship at Mr. Trump’s New Jersey golf course.

Such a parting of ways signals the business community’s weariness in being associated with a political figure that has attracted worldwide attention and is indicative of what may happen to the Trump brand. The president’s role in the incident, confirmed by his impeachment by the House this week, has gained criticism from the Business Roundtable to the AFL-CIO labour federation. Michael D’Antonio, the author of a Trump biography, says the capitol incident has been a game-changer for the support of extreme politics. “Trump’s name is really an albatross. He is the most disgraced president in history. This is a person who’s synonymous with a mob attacking the US Capitol. I just think this went a step too far.” Other experts like Tim Calkins, a marketing professor at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management, say Trump’s brand will inevitably suffer long-term.

“Before his term, Trump stood for wealth, success and over-the-top luxury. Now the brand has associations with anti-government views, racism and extremism. This makes the brand fairly toxic.”

 

Trump is not man enough to accept the loss, and neither are these protestors, over a hundred congress members who joined that ridiculous lawsuit, and many millions of his supporters who are continuing to drink the Kool aid, insisting that Trump won, and that the election was rigged.

 

If I could speak with Trump, what would I say? Man up. Grow up. Deal with it. You lost yet again. Plain and simple. You lost 17 businesses. You lost 19 merchandising deals while in office. You lost all your clout, when it comes to management deals with your name on them. You lost the trade war with China, and the negotiations with Kim. Now, you lost the election. You broke alliances with close allies, and you coddled despots and dictators. What part of you being a loser do you not understand? 

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It wasn’t a lottery, it was/is a pandemic and the responses Trump failed to take, ignited or ridiculed were advised by arguably the very best scientists in the field of public health on the planet.

I would certainly argue if you,re referring to chinas ventriloquist s dummy...the who.

[Walker88]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

 

I do believe we will be discussing 45, but it will be his lawsuits and guessing if and when he will be put behind bars. Same with his family.

 

I am of the belief prison for 45 is virtually unavoidable, and likely equally unavoidable for his oldest two sons, son-in-law and daughter.

 

What will come out as his mess is swept away is likely to shock on a scale almost unimaginable.

 

I will have renewed faith in the justice system of the US on the day the cell door is closed behind him. Forever.

[Tug]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

I don’t think Joe Biden is worried if donald is getting attention he has a country to run don’t think he will be tweeting watching tv or golfing like Donald there is to much damage done but don’t worry we now have an excellent TEAM with a leader who knows how to manage and delegate bye

[Jeffr2]

59 minutes ago, kingdong said:

And what could he have done?invented a vaccine for it?

Trump had nothing to do with that.  Do some research and get a better source for your news.

[Jeffr2]

32 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Trump negotiated with Mexico and Central American governments to discourage the hordes of illegal immigrants from reaching the border.  And for those that did—many were returned to their home countries.  He also made good on his pledge to build a wall (450 miles).

Notice now the hoards moving north from Honduras because they think the Biden administration will welcome them with open arms.

Don't forget that the reason they were at our border was his cancellation of hundreds of millions of dollars in aid that supported the poor people there.

 

He created the mess then tried to take credit for stopping them at the border.  Sad some fall for his lies and BS tactics.

 

P.S. His promise was to build a wall from end to end across the border and make Mexico pay for it.  Remember that?  As for 450 miles, you'll have to provide a credible link that shows he built 450 miles of NEW wall.  Not just upgrading the old ones, which was already a work in progress under Obama.

[Jeffr2]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I expect you and the others that dislike Trump will still be discussing him on TVF for a very long time as IMO he's going to still be dominating the news even out of office. IMO Biden is going to have to get used to being sidelined while the MSM continue to talk about Trump Trump Trump ( CNN is obsessed with him ) . You'll be doing it without much opposition though, as most supporters stopped ( as I did ) posting quite a while ago. 

Sooooo, carry on discussing Trump among yourselves though, as it apparently gives a warm fuzzy feeling to see who can say the most horrible things about him. Just don't expect much in the way of a debate, IMO.

Bye.

Delusional.  Change your source of news, please.

[Throatwobbler]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

NB: to avoid having to put IMO after everything I write, everything I write on this post is my opinion.

 

Let's never forget that Trump has not started any wars during his term- a huge achievement. Other than that, 3 conservative judges on SCOTUS has cemented his legacy for decades to come.

 

In the future, after the mania has receded and calmer minds evaluate, Trump will be seen as a great president for all the great things he achieved in only 3 years ( the last year was basically lost to corona ) while being assailed on all sides for everything he did. The establishment, the woke left and the media were relentless in their attacks against him, and he was diverted by a Russian investigation ( which cost millions and did not remove him ) for too long ( he should have sacked Sessions the day he recused himself, but hindsight is brilliant ). Despite all the attacks, what he achieved was substantial and productive- I doubt a normal politician could have achieved half of it in 8 years.

Were it not for corona I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now.

Trump was ( and still is ) a dominating presence, and I doubt he is going away any time soon. Any that thought his losing the election would be the end of Trump are going to be hugely disappointed. Never forget that Trump was not elected because of himself, but as a revolt against the Washington establishment, and that enormous mass of disaffected voters is not going away quietly.  If Biden does not do something to satisfy the millions that voted against him, the anti establishment movement is only going to grow. If he doesn't get it right, in 2022 he's going to lose congress. The Democrat majority is very small, and will not take much to lose it.

I doubt that Biden can withstand the hard left, and policies enacted will not endear the population to him ( just wait till he puts up taxes on the middle class ), but time ( and the 2022 election ) will tell.

I doubt Trump will be convicted in the senate, and I hope he will be running again for POTUS in 2024. If he doesn't run, I expect him to be involved in primary selections, and a supremacy of Trump allied GOP candidates.

Roll on 2022 and 2024 .

 

Over some considerable time, many Trump hater posters have made some pretty outlandish claims about Trump in the final days eg he was going to start a military coup, that he was going to refuse to leave the White House, that Melania was going to divorce him, that he was going to start a nuclear war, that he was going to start a war to divert attention. None of those have eventuated .

 

 

 

Yep old racist misognystic white people will miss him for sure. Trump allowed their opinions to become mainstream.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Throatwobbler

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

NB: to avoid having to put IMO after everything I write, everything I write on this post is my opinion.

 

Let's never forget that Trump has not started any wars during his term- a huge achievement. Other than that, 3 conservative judges on SCOTUS has cemented his legacy for decades to come.

 

In the future, after the mania has receded and calmer minds evaluate, Trump will be seen as a great president for all the great things he achieved in only 3 years ( the last year was basically lost to corona ) while being assailed on all sides for everything he did. The establishment, the woke left and the media were relentless in their attacks against him, and he was diverted by a Russian investigation ( which cost millions and did not remove him ) for too long ( he should have sacked Sessions the day he recused himself, but hindsight is brilliant ). Despite all the attacks, what he achieved was substantial and productive- I doubt a normal politician could have achieved half of it in 8 years.

Were it not for corona I have no doubt he would be waiting to start his second term now.

Trump was ( and still is ) a dominating presence, and I doubt he is going away any time soon. Any that thought his losing the election would be the end of Trump are going to be hugely disappointed. Never forget that Trump was not elected because of himself, but as a revolt against the Washington establishment, and that enormous mass of disaffected voters is not going away quietly.  If Biden does not do something to satisfy the millions that voted against him, the anti establishment movement is only going to grow. If he doesn't get it right, in 2022 he's going to lose congress. The Democrat majority is very small, and will not take much to lose it.

I doubt that Biden can withstand the hard left, and policies enacted will not endear the population to him ( just wait till he puts up taxes on the middle class ), but time ( and the 2022 election ) will tell.

I doubt Trump will be convicted in the senate, and I hope he will be running again for POTUS in 2024. If he doesn't run, I expect him to be involved in primary selections, and a supremacy of Trump allied GOP candidates.

Roll on 2022 and 2024 .

 

Over some considerable time, many Trump hater posters have made some pretty outlandish claims about Trump in the final days eg he was going to start a military coup, that he was going to refuse to leave the White House, that Melania was going to divorce him, that he was going to start a nuclear war, that he was going to start a war to divert attention. None of those have eventuated .

 

 

 

Not my opinion but facts:

He didn't start a new war. If that is an achievement in the USA, the country has very low standards. The last year was lost by corona because he failed miserably to do anything to curb it, he was actually stimulating to get it worse by his "no mask' policy. The Russia investigation made money as they took it from the guilty parties. It didn't remove him because the GOP had made their minds up before doing an actual trial and refused to call any witnesses.

So what did he achieve actually?

No wall, Mexicans didn't pay for it. Huge unemployment, 400 K people dead and rising quickly which was completely unnecessary if he took the pandemic seriously from the start. Racial division of the country. A coup attempt to become a dictator.

Edited January 20, 2021 by FritsSikkink

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Over some considerable time, many Trump hater posters have made some pretty outlandish claims about Trump in the final days eg he was going to start a military coup

What were the events of the 6th of January, if not an attempted coup?

Edited January 20, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[gunderhill]

4 hours ago, J Town said:

"Trump haters" label is provocative.

As is  constantly  calling him POTUS, which many here have done for  years ,and I don't  care about him either way.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Don't forget that the reason they were at our border was his cancellation of hundreds of millions of dollars in aid that supported the poor people there.

 

He created the mess then tried to take credit for stopping them at the border.  Sad some fall for his lies and BS tactics.

 

P.S. His promise was to build a wall from end to end across the border and make Mexico pay for it.  Remember that?  As for 450 miles, you'll have to provide a credible link that shows he built 450 miles of NEW wall.  Not just upgrading the old ones, which was already a work in progress under Obama.

This is not a troll question but why is the usa responsible for sending " hundreds of million dollars " to honduras?

[J Town]

Just now, gunderhill said:

As is  constantly  calling him POTUS, which many here have done for  years ,and I don't  care about him either way.

POTUS is a commonly accepted term.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

This is not a troll question but why is the usa responsible for sending " hundreds of million dollars " to honduras?

Do some research on American intervention in Central America.  Supporting coups, brutal dictators, CIA activity.  Remember the Iran Contra affair?  Please, read up on that.  You'll connect the dots.

 

A good place to start:

https://thepanoptic.co.uk/2016/11/19/american-intervention-guatemala/

 

The devastating effects of American intervention in Guatemala

Edited January 20, 2021 by Jeffr2

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Virt said:

If Covid-19 had not emerged, Trump would most likely still be president and in charge of a country with the lowest unemployment stasticics in 50 years and economical growth higher than Obamas. 

 

He dropped the ball big time after Covid-19 knocked on the door. 

 

Trump can only blaim himself for his loss and he should had left quietly, but instead he now has an impeachment to look forward to. 

Not the smartest move he made.

 

His legacy. 

Well it's not the best is it, even if he actually managed to do some good things for many Americans, even democrats in his 3 first years. 

 

Let's hope for a peaceful 

I'm assuming that you're referring to the economy because I can't think of anything else significant that happened under Trump's watch  that was good for Americans . Just because a president is in office when the economy is doing well that doesn't mean the economy is doing well because of that president. That goes for Democrats as well as Republicans. There's no evidence at all that is tax breaks actually benefited the economy. if you look at a graph showing GDP growth from the Obama era to the Trump era you'll see very little change. The best year of economic growth under Trump was 2018 and that was due to both the sugar high of the tax cuts and the massive increase in spending. In fact GDP growth went down from 2018 to 2019.

So what good things do you believe Trump did?

Edited January 20, 2021 by placeholder