Texas water shortages persist; 'fragile' power grid returns to life

[Chomper Higgot]

14 hours ago, stevenl said:

Disagree, I think even now the people don't want to pay a little extra and upgrade their systems to prevent this from happening again. In this case it is the people themselves to blame.

I don’t think customers see it that way, I doubt they even consider supply reliability until the supply is cut.

 

The utility companies have been placed to n competition with each other, the competition is on price.

 

This inevitably drives cost cutting and ‘resilience’ is a big cost that can be cut until

something goes wrong.

 

The way to avoid this is to regulate resilience but the champions of a free market don’t like regulation.

 

The underlying problem is the idea that critical infrastructure upon which society and the economy depend should be run by commercial  companies for profit. 

 

 

 

 

[Damrongsak]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t think customers see it that way, I doubt they even consider supply reliability until the supply is cut.

 

The utility companies have been placed to n competition with each other, the competition is on price.

 

This inevitably drives cost cutting and ‘resilience’ is a big cost that can be cut until

something goes wrong.

 

The way to avoid this is to regulate resilience but the champions of a free market don’t like regulation.

 

The underlying problem is the idea that critical infrastructure upon which society and the economy depend should be run by commercial  companies for profit. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, thank you.  In the U.S. they tended to be highly regulated monopolies in their area of operation. Kind of a "cost plus" operation, which invited a lot of pork. Hey, if you are willing to sacrifice reliability in times of tornadoes, hurricanes and blizzards for a few bucks, so be it. Nowadays, it seems you need your own little generating plant in the back yard for outages, and that doesn't come cheap.

[pseudorabies]

I guess one of the good things about the power outage is that those affected can't watch Fox News and hear their propaganda about how "windmills" and the democrats are to blame for this totally foreseeable mess.

 

It's really sad that the US has one of its two political parties that is not only totally incapable of admitting its mistakes and adjusting policy but resorts to outright lies to distract from its failures.  Still more of "believe only what we tell you, not what is obvious" from Republican leadership and its propaganda outlets.  Because doing the right thing is just too hard and fooling the faithful just so easy.

[Stargeezr]

I am glad that a complete investigation of the power mess is happening. I do hope that lots of heads will roll and many people will be fired and maybe even fined for their involvement in this mess.  Hey Ted Cruz   you are included in this, since you left Texas for your own selfish excuse. Pretty sad actually. I wonder if Texas will get some connection to other nearby states for the possibility of this situation happening again>

Geezer

[mtls2005]

Some of the electricity bills people are facing are enormous.

 

$17,000 Electric Bill? A Deregulated Power Grid Leads To Wild Prices For Texans

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/02/20/17000-electric-bill-deregulated-power-grid-texas-griddy/?sh=282c807e58ba

 

 

 

Meanwhile Jerry Jones is making out like a bandit...

 

As Texas Freezes, Jerry Jones Does What He’s Always Done

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/19/jerry-jones-gas-company-jacks-prices-during-texas-power-crisis

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Some of the electricity bills people are facing are enormous.

 

$17,000 Electric Bill? A Deregulated Power Grid Leads To Wild Prices For Texans

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/02/20/17000-electric-bill-deregulated-power-grid-texas-griddy/?sh=282c807e58ba

 

 

 

Meanwhile Jerry Jones is making out like a bandit...

 

As Texas Freezes, Jerry Jones Does What He’s Always Done

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/19/jerry-jones-gas-company-jacks-prices-during-texas-power-crisis

 

Jerry Jones makes Donald Trump look like Albert Schweitzer.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Yes, thank you.  In the U.S. they tended to be highly regulated monopolies in their area of operation. Kind of a "cost plus" operation, which invited a lot of pork. Hey, if you are willing to sacrifice reliability in times of tornadoes, hurricanes and blizzards for a few bucks, so be it. Nowadays, it seems you need your own little generating plant in the back yard for outages, and that doesn't come cheap.

I generate 1/2 my electricity with solar panels, and have 6 hours battery backup.

Back in the west I had oil fired central heating, but the pump was electric (no electric = no oil heating)

Cost was around 40kbht. 3kw generator costs another 7kbht.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by BritManToo

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t think customers see it that way, I doubt they even consider supply reliability until the supply is cut.

 

The utility companies have been placed to n competition with each other, the competition is on price.

 

This inevitably drives cost cutting and ‘resilience’ is a big cost that can be cut until

something goes wrong.

 

The way to avoid this is to regulate resilience but the champions of a free market don’t like regulation.

 

The underlying problem is the idea that critical infrastructure upon which society and the economy depend should be run by commercial  companies for profit. 

"The underlying problem is the idea that critical infrastructure upon which society and the economy depend should be run by commercial  companies for profit."

 

Totally agree with that.

 

About 10 years or so ago there was a similar problem, albeit on a smaller scale. At that point consumers made the choice to stick with cheaper electricity and accept some outages. The result is what happened now, and will happen again unless reliability and therefore prices are increased.

Edited February 21, 2021 by stevenl

[mtraveler]

Well, it's a good practice run for secession by Texas.  Only difference is that once they secede, they can't come running to Uncle Sam for money to fix their problem.  I wonder if this will make some secessionists reconsider their position.  Nah.  

 

What galls me the most about libertarianism and conservatism is this notion that government is unnecessary and is the enemy.  I think this event is proof positive that regulations and oversight is needed.  Of course no one wants to spend the extra money to prepare for a disaster like this.  But the sad reality is that you have to.  And sometimes the government needs to be the adult in the room and make rules to protect its citizens. 

[GinBoy2]

13 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Well, I think it was much better back in the days.  Then it got to be all about the money, not reliability, what with utility deregulation and all. I worked in the industry for years selling equipment for the distribution side of the house.

 

BUT, the linemen who have to fix and patch things in very crappy weather tend to be great guys.  They can be very well paid, but they earn it in times of need.  It can be a very dangerous and tough job at times.

Well again, there is nothing wrong with utilities being private entities, so long as they are regulated correctly.

 

Texas made their bed long ago to opt out of Federal regulations by creating ERCOT and being a stand alone energy market separate from the rest of the US

 

For the rest of the US, we're either part of the Eastern or Western Interconnect, where utilities can share power. The fact that Texas made the decision not to participate meant there was no way they could import power, if they had been part of the system this just wouldn't have happened.

 

We had temperatures that dipped to -30°C last week, and guess what. The lights stayed on, gas kept flowing and we looked out of our house comfortably warm at the winter wonderland outside!

 

Texas had a warning that this would happen after the last freeze, and the recommendations were that they should winterize their utilities like the rest of us, of course they chose to do nothing.

 

So, as much as I feel for the suffering of individuals, sometimes you make your bed and you lie in it!

[rudi49jr]

This is what former mayor of Colorado City (TX) had to say about it on Facebook, and deleted it right away after he got heavily criticized:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/18/us/tim-boyd-mayor-colorado-city-texas.html

 

”The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING!” he wrote.

“Sink or swim”.

And former governor Rick Perry basically said that Texans would rather die than have too many regulations.

 

Who votes these people into power? I mean, if people in the great state of Texas want things to change, they’re going to have to seriously think about who they vote for. Because this is (among other things) what over a decade of Republican government have brought you: power and oil and gas companies getting obscenely rich and ordinary people getting screwed over. 

[RanongCat]

USA  number one  new landing on Mars...lokk at  nice pictures.....people  can not or  do not care becuase  freezing to die .  Strange  country!

[GinBoy2]

11 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

USA  number one  new landing on Mars...lokk at  nice pictures.....people  can not or  do not care becuase  freezing to die .  Strange  country!

I think there is a misconception among many on here that the US is one country.

 

In reality the United States is a federation of 50 sovereign States who choose to cede certain powers to Washington.

 

Texas is on the far extreme of that spectrum, so don't equate what Texan State Government does with the other 49 States and the Federal Government

 

I suspect you are a European, and if so, it's like saying what Sweden would do is the same as Greece!

Edited February 21, 2021 by GinBoy2

[RanongCat]

2 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think there is a misconception among many on here that the US is one country.

 

In reality the United States is a federation of 50 sovereign States who choose to cede certain powers to Washington.

 

Texas is on the far extreme of that spectrum, so don't equate what Texan State Government does with the other 49 States and the Federal Government

 

I suspect you are a European, and if so, it's like saying what Sweden would do is the same as Greece!

Oh sure!  One  Us  Army. One President. One lie.

[GinBoy2]

12 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Oh sure!  One  Us  Army. One President. One lie.

One EU, one State, one screwed up covid vaccine roll out.

 

Yet I wouldn't have a one brush approach to all EU member States on everything they do.

 

Be careful when you start throwing stones!

Edited February 21, 2021 by GinBoy2

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think there is a misconception among many on here that the US is one country.

 

In reality the United States is a federation of 50 sovereign States who choose to cede certain powers to Washington.

 

Texas is on the far extreme of that spectrum, so don't equate what Texan State Government does with the other 49 States and the Federal Government

 

I suspect you are a European, and if so, it's like saying what Sweden would do is the same as Greece!

Now if there had been a Civil War in the USA over that very issue of state sovereignty, then your assertion would be ridiculous. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what would happen if a state or states tries to secede from the Union.

[GinBoy2]

 

You know exactly what I was trying to say that the 50 States of the US do and will pursue different strategies as they feel works for their State.

 

Texas did what they felt worked best for them, and they fell flat on their face.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Texas did what they felt worked best for them, and they fell flat on their face.

I suspect the Texas problem was more to do with corruption appointing the trustees.

[Jeffr2]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I suspect the Texas problem was more to do with corruption appointing the trustees.

And misinformation being spread by their elected officials.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Now you are just trying to be cute.

 

You know exactly what I was trying to say that the 50 States of the US do and will pursue different strategies as they feel works for their State.

 

Texas did what they felt worked best for them, and they fell flat on their face.

 

You could use the European analogy of Greece that pursued a fiscal policy that seemed good at the time, but equally fell flat on it's face

No, I don't know that. Your assertion about state sovereignty was often invoked by Trump supporters who asserted that a national plan against Covid was not possible because the Federal Govt. didn't have the authority. And, in fact, it's a staple of extreme right wing thinking.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

No, I don't know that. Your assertion about state sovereignty was often invoked by Trump supporters who asserted that a national plan against Covid was not possible because the Federal Govt. didn't have the authority. And, in fact, it's a staple of extreme right wing thinking.

But that is a fact.

 

There are limits to what the Federal Government can impose on the States, nothing to do with right wing thinking, and I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

[Jeffr2]

15 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

But that is a fact.

 

There are limits to what the Federal Government can impose on the States, nothing to do with right wing thinking, and I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

As proven by the massive failure with the pandemic, there are some things better done at the federal level. This may be one of those also?

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

As proven by the massive failure with the pandemic, there are some things better done at the federal level. This may be one of those also?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, some things should be done at a national level.

 

But with the Federal system we have, States have the right to opt out. This current Texan nightmare, is simply because they chose to opt out Federal oversight by FERC and have a totally separate energy system overseen by the State alone.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong, but maybe some chickens came home to roost in this case.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[placeholder]

Actually, it turns out that the power outage was not the fault of any Texans or Ercot:

Larry Kudlow Suggests Texas Power Outages 'Consequence' of Biden's Presidency

Larry Kudlow, a White House economics adviser under former President Donald Trump, suggested that President Joe Biden should be blamed for the widespread power outages from the winter storm that has devastated Texas.

In a Sunday interview with Fox News host Howard Kurtz, Kudlow criticized Biden for failing to deliver on his campaign promise of unity while appearing to attribute the Texas power outages to the president's allegedly progressive agenda.

https://www.newsweek.com/larry-kudlow-suggests-texas-power-outages-consequence-bidens-presidency-1570865

[onthedarkside]

Off topic posts about European sovereignty and the U.S. COVID response have been removed.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

If not hated, then despised socialist bartender’ AOC steps up and does the right thing for Texas:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-texas-relief/index.html

Edited February 22, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Stargeezr]

If the Texas utility companies did not Winterise their power stations, and they froze up,

well fire all the guilty parties and charge them all huge fines.  Corrupt people have caused

so many others pain and ruined homes.  Of course some would go after Biden to say

that somehow he is the cause of their disaster.  How about, Cruz,  his great support sure

has helped, huh?

Geezer