Thailand suffers sharp fall in rankings of best countries for retirement

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, sekmet said:

Has Thailand's xenophobia coincided with mass tourism, or is it the result of different kinds of expats and tourists?

 

Genuinely curious here.

Their history is almost as xenophobic ridden as Japan's.  For thousands of years they have mistrusted and loathed foreigners, and with good reason, as they were invaded many times from north and west. It was only fear of invasion and the communist threat that made them welcome the US during the Vietnam War, but they were never comfortable with it. My own theory is that they are a 'made up people', much like the Belgium's, or indeed the US.  Tribes migrated to what was to become Siam because of the fertile valleys and ability to grow almost anything,.  Go back a few thousand years and they were mainly Chinese with a smattering of Indian ( Burmese),  and Mongol.  I think that there is a certain element of under confidence in the Nation, that they cover up with a reverence for what is a fairly recent Nationhood history stretching back no further than a few hundred years. Maybe its just in the Genes.  That, for what its worth, is my take on it anyway.

[Pilotman]

7 hours ago, bangon04 said:

Are there any reliable figures about how much retirees have put into building nice houses in the Moo Baan , cars and motorbikes for the "brothers" , hospital bills and vets bills for the sick buffalos, buying seaside bars, child support for the many children, fashion accessories and the myriad of other "investments" into Thai society??  Is it all really insignificant financially?

I can't find the link ( I will keep looking) but I read somewhere quite recently that the expat community in Thailand,  less any tourism element,  accounts for less than 2% of GDP.   Either way, its a not a hell of a lot. 

[Moonlover]

28 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Well, some of us did do it properly and entered Thailand on an non-O-A visa which, in 2004, was supposed to be the preferred method if you wanted to retire here.  It never was called a 'retirement visa' bu that is what it was intended to be.  We were supposed to be able to extend the permission to stay that this type of visa conferred, annually, provided that we met the financial requirements.

 

This worked very well until someone decided that it would be a nice little earner if retirees were made to take out a scam insurance policy as a condition of getting an extension.  This scam has been widely covered on this forum so we don't need to go  into it here.  The crux of the matter though is that it is very difficult and expensive for anyone over the age of 75 to obtain such an insurance.  The requirement can be waived, for a consideration, but this means using an agent and is expensive.

 

The really silly thing is that extending for retirement from an original non-O visa does not require the insurance, even though the other requirements are exactly the same!

 

 

 

Yes, that does sound, on the surface, a little unfortunate, but let's get the definition correct shall we:

 

''Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay) This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year''.

 

Yes you were right in your post. ''It was never called a retirement visa''. Because it wasn't!

 

When I was preparing to come and live here 7 years ago, I sought the advise of the Thai embassy in Cairo and was told that the correct visa for this purpose was a non-immigration 'O'. 

[michael888]

Don't forget the self imposed staggeringly high air pollution due to burning of sugar cane and rice fields.  6 months a year of PM 2.5 heaven.

[TonBrow]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:01 PM, rooster59 said:

The Index said a retiree expat couple could live comfortably in Costa Rica for around $2,000 a month.

Hell, that would apply to almost anywhere. $2,000/month will go a long way even in expensive America.

[AlfHuy]

25 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Their history is almost as xenophobic ridden as Japan's.  For thousands of years they have mistrusted and loathed foreigners, and with good reason, as they were invaded many times from north and west. It was only fear of invasion and the communist threat that made them welcome the US during the Vietnam War, but they were never comfortable with it. My own theory is that they are a 'made up people', much like the Belgium's, or indeed the US.  Tribes migrated to what was to become Siam because of the fertile valleys and ability to grow almost anything,.  Go back a few thousand years and they were mainly Chinese with a smattering of Indian ( Burmese),  and Mongol.  I think that there is a certain element of under confidence in the Nation, that they cover up with a reverence for what is a fairly recent Nationhood history stretching back no further than a few hundred years. Maybe its just in the Genes.  That, for what its worth, is my take on it anyway.

What is "the Belgiums's"? 

[Pilotman]

Just now, AlfHuy said:

What is "the Belgiums's"? 

goodness knows, I have been trying to figure that out for years. ????

[AlfHuy]

Just now, Pilotman said:

goodness knows, I have been trying to figure that out for years. ????

Funny guy.

First it is called "Belgians"

Second, what the problem. 

I am a Belgian myself and have no problems with my people at all.

Most of us speak 2, 3 or even more languages and most are very happy, living in Belgium.

Healthcare and education is very good and it's a very good place to raise a family.

[Pilotman]

5 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

Funny guy.

First it is called "Belgians"

Second, what the problem. 

I am a Belgian myself and have no problems with my people at all.

Most of us speak 2, 3 or even more languages and most are very happy, living in Belgium.

Healthcare and education is very good and it's a very good place to raise a family.

good for you mate.  It was not meant as a personal comment to any individual. I am sure that there are many very nice people who live there and I do like many of the Cities, Bruges is my favourite.   

[Moonlover]

18 minutes ago, michael888 said:

Don't forget the self imposed staggeringly high air pollution due to burning of sugar cane and rice fields.  6 months a year of PM 2.5 heaven.

North East Issan right now. Just choose the right location. 

 

 

 

[bbbbooboo]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:01 PM, redwood1 said:

Well I think we can all agree, Thailand has not lifted a finger to do anything favorable for expats in decades....No wonder Thailand is falling in the rankings.... 

Exactly. It’s called Xenophobia

[KarenBravo]

18 hours ago, rawaimike said:

Don't forget the 24/7 persecution of expats and tourists by the police, got stopped 14 times in Phuket in 2 months, and I'm legal.......

 

I also live in the south of the island. Last time I was stopped by police was at least two years ago.

Maybe it has something to do with your appearance?

[KarenBravo]

17 hours ago, khunkarl said:

It's very simple really. When people feel not welcome they don't come...

 

Yet, Thailand, pre-Covid, has increased tourist arrivals every year. Yes, mainly Chinese and Russians, which explains the dearth of Westerners we all observe. Blame the Chinese with their spitting, loud yelling, unsanitary habits and general me me me attitude for chasing away Western tourists.

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, TonBrow said:

Hell, that would apply to almost anywhere. $2,000/month will go a long way even in expensive America.

No it won't if you have to pay rent.

[doctormann]

52 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Yes, that does sound, on the surface, a little unfortunate, but let's get the definition correct shall we:

 

''Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay) This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year''.

 

Yes you were right in your post. ''It was never called a retirement visa''. Because it wasn't!

 

When I was preparing to come and live here 7 years ago, I sought the advise of the Thai embassy in Cairo and was told that the correct visa for this purpose was a non-immigration 'O'. 

RTE London said to get the O-A, which I did, but that was back in 2004 so the advice may have changed.  Doesn't excuse applying a new rule retroactively though - retirees extending from a historic O-A should have been 'grandfathered' but this didn't happen.  Apparently, Phuket does not enforce the insurance requirement so there is no consistency, as usual.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

A retirement index that does not include the affordability of sex has little relevance for many retirees.

Not really. You're talking about sexpats that happen to be older. Most people looking to retire abroad in general are seeking more general benefits, a better quality of life for less money than staying home. I understand why some expats in Thailand project about sex though.

[KarenBravo]

13 hours ago, high plane drifter said:

I am glad I moved away from Thailand, The visa sharks in Thailand are not good for the Country, 

 

......and yet, here you are on a Thai based forum.

[KarenBravo]

11 hours ago, shdmn said:

I've fairly recently started considering the PI instead of Thailand.  No visa hassles and very friendly people who genuinely like westerners.  Another big one is that almost everyone speaks English.  They are doing massive improvements to the infrastructure so I think that is getting better as well.

 

I think I will always like visiting Thailand for short and medium term stays but it is no longer so appealing to me for retirement.  

 

When they make "massive improvements" to their cuisine, I might think about it.

Also, you do know that there is no such thing as divorce in the PI?

[KarenBravo]

3 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Only in their own minds.

 

The US regards them as having been invaded and as part of the Japanese Empire.

 

And the only reason that Thailand wasn't colonized was that the UK and France wanted to keep a buffer zone between their colonized countries. Had either one set out seriously to conquer Thailand, it would have been colonized.

 

The one thing that Japan and Thailand have in common is their white-washing of WWII in their text books for students. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Watchful said:

That is a good point. My guess is the population of "fence sitters" is extremely low. People pretty much know where they want to go in retirement.

 

What articles like this may impact is their financial decisions. That is whether to buy or rent. If people fear they may never be able to sell, they'd be less likely to make that condo investment. I believe articles like this will have a negative influence on the "over built" condo market in Thailand.

Visas too. When I "retired" to Thailand it was one of maybe two or three countries that I qualified for. Out of such a small sample the decision for Thailand was easy to make. But I would have probably preferred Mexico which based on their rules back then I wasn't qualified for.

 

Yes the target market for International Living is mostly Americans and Canadians and they  do have conflicts of interest with their business model. But if you view their media with a lot of skepticism they do sometimes provide useful information on specific destinations you haven't thought about before. Then its on you to do your own research. 

[Marinelli]

Cost Rica was beatiful.....but dear lord the food is consistently abysmal.

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Marinelli said:

Cost Rica was beatiful.....but dear lord the food is consistently abysmal.

 

 

Yep. In my experience the poorest food culture of any country I've ever been.

 

BTW the "notorious" youtuber Nomad Capitalist who almost always prefers capitol cities trashes San Jose CR  suggests avoiding living there at all costs, and even calls it dangerous. 

[Andycoops]

And they fell in the recent corruption rankings as well, seems like a downward spiral with the current Muppets in charge...

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No it won't if you have to pay rent.

 

Plenty of inexpensive places to rent in the US, many of them very nice. 

[Yellowtail]

Is it not ironic that the Thai haters call Thais xenophobic?  

 

You ever notice how it's the same guys keep getting in fights at the bar? Coincidentally, it seems like it's always the same guys that have all the difficulty interacting with immigration or with Thais in general. I wonder why that is....

 

Still waiting for all the examples of lost freedoms any other changes that have made things so unbearable here... 

[Cake Monster]

The Country has also received a sharp decline in the " Free Country Index "

[Wafrog]

Maybe one of the problems with Thailand's authorities is they do not value the expats for their human worth but only their purses'. 

For example, why m should a resident expat have to pay five times more than locals to enter National Parks ? Even my gf of the time was surprised at that discrimination. She refused that I pay that price and we turned back. The government's racial slurs against westerners doesn't help either. But then, does it care ? I don't think so. Too proud. 

[BobinBKK]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:27 PM, Orton Rd said:

why do you think it's great?

I think it blows...

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, Wafrog said:

Maybe one of the problems with Thailand's authorities is they do not value the expats for their human worth but only their purses'. 

For example, why m should a resident expat have to pay five times more than locals to enter National Parks ? Even my gf of the time was surprised at that discrimination. She refused that I pay that price and we turned back. The government's racial slurs against westerners doesn't help either. But then, does it care ? I don't think so. Too proud. 

 

Yes, people are always amazed that non-residents have to pay more to get into State parks or to go fishing in California as well. The idea is that taxpayers (alcohol & VAT don't count) already pay. 

 

In Thailand, if you show your work permit or are a permanent resident they are supposed to let you in for the local price. In any event, whether one pays five baht or fifty a few times a year does not mean much in the scheme of things. In any event, there is nothing new about the policies. 

 

I know Mexico has double pricing as well. 

 

 

[Sujo]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yes, people are always amazed that non-residents have to pay more to get into State parks or to go fishing in California as well. The idea is that taxpayers (alcohol & VAT don't count) already pay. 

 

In Thailand, if you show your work permit or are a permanent resident they are supposed to let you in for the local price. In any event, whether one pays five baht or fifty a few times a year does not mean much in the scheme of things. In any event, there is nothing new about the policies. 

 

I know Mexico has double pricing as well. 

 

 

Do thais that live out of state pay the thai or foreigner price?