6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Newcastle?...now that is deflection. We are talking about Scotland's right to vote on independence.

 

I think the way the wishes of Scottish people were ignored is central to this topic.

 

The Scots voted to remain in the EU and now they should be given the choice as to whether they wish to remain in the uk, given their views were ignored regarding the EU.

 

The new circumstances mean the position of many may well have now changed with regard to being part of the uk..

Newcastle is an area of the UK just as the same as Scotland, we all belong to the same island nation, see I told you you wouldn't get it.

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Rob the world changes daily, we cannot live our lives by reneging on democratic decisions because it didn't go the way we wanted it to or because some people may want revenge for a decision that didn't go their way also.

...or indeed international treaties and legal agreements.

Just now, vogie said:

Rob the world changes daily, we cannot live our lives by reneging on democratic decisions because it didn't go the way we wanted it to or because some people may want revenge for a decision that didn't go their way also.

Of course we can, you just don't want to accept that the result of your cherished Brexit means a break up of the union. You would have to admit then that Brexit started the end of the UK. 

 

Let them have their vote and this is a huge change. Anyway your a bit hypocritic in my opinion. You wanted freedom from the EU fought for it defended it. As is your right and you should be able to leave. So should the Scots.

 

Its important to change with changes so let the Scots vote. You said it yourself your not worried. But now all of a sudden you want to deny them the right. Looks like either you are lying about the scots not wanting freedom (if not worried why not let them vote).

 

But i get it the shame of a union broken up because of nationalists voting for Brexit would be the ultimate pie on your face for Brexiteers. SO i get it that Brexiteers are not pro a referendum. As they will be remembered in history as the ones who broke up the union.

46 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Ah yes, Australian isn't he?

Still no doubt it was a lucrative bandwagon!

3 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

In France, Marine Le Pen's “National Rally” party has given up on leaving the EU and even the euro. Brexit has ridiculed this claim of leaving a united and strong group for very dangerous isolation.

But our country remains independent and participates actively in the 27 movement. For us, Scotland has always been an ally and friendly nation and we wish to keep these links for a common future.

The French just know how negotiations work, the Brits can.. they still  have the empire in their mind and think that allies and negotiations are not needed and they need to have their way. 

 

Netherlands understands it too, its just those Brits that did not seem to understand how it worked. just for the record I don't mean all Brits just those ones that seem to have a problem with Europe.

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Of course we can, you just don't want to accept that the result of your cherished Brexit means a break up of the union. You would have to admit then that Brexit started the end of the UK. 

 

I think that the SNP wanted break up the UK a long time before Brexit.

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think that the SNP wanted break up the UK a long time before Brexit.

Nothing to do with wanting to break up the UK, only with maybe wanting independence.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Nothing to do with wanting to break up the UK, only with maybe wanting independence.

If independence means giving your country lock stock and barrel to for example....Germany, many would argue that is not independence by any stretch of the imagination.????????????

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

Newcastle is an area of the UK just as the same as Scotland, we all belong to the same island nation, see I told you you wouldn't get it.

No, Scotland is a nation within the union called the uk.

 

Scotland can leave such a union, especially if it's decisions are not to it's liking...you know that really does sound familiar.

 

Newcastle is part of the nation of England.

 

So your point was deflection after all.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If independence means giving your country lock stock and barrel to for example....Germany, many would argue that is not independence by any stretch of the imagination.????????????

You're confusing 'consequences' and 'wanting, or aiming for'.

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

for example....Germany

Give it up it was 80 years ago.

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Give it up it was 80 years ago.

What was, I am talking about present day Germany and you know it.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

What was, I am talking about present day Germany and you know it.

 

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, Scotland is a nation within the union called the uk.

 

Scotland can leave such a union, especially if it's decisions are not to it's liking...you know that really does sound familiar.

 

Newcastle is part of the nation of england.

 

So your point was deflection after all.

And it is to their liking because they voted to remain, but I fear it may not be to your liking.

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

Newcastle is an area of the UK just as the same as Scotland, we all belong to the same island nation, see I told you you wouldn't get it.

Newcastle isnt a country. Unless i missed them marching in the commonwealth games.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

And it is to their liking because they voted to remain, but I fear it may not be to your liking.

Who are you referring to with 'they''

 

If Scotland, you are wrong and as I say... new circumstances... let them vote.

 

Or are you worried england might lose...

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

And it is to their liking because they voted to remain, but I fear it may not be to your liking.

They also voted to remain in the eu. Or doesnt that matter.

 

It behoves me why scotland should even have to ask for a vote.

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Who are you referring to with 'they''

 

If Scotland, you are wrong and as I say... new circumstances... let them vote.

 

Or are you worried england might lose...

Well england are used to losing without others.

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

And it is to their liking because they voted to remain, but I fear it may not be to your liking.

If you mean that in 2014 Scotland voted to remain in the UK; you are correct.

 

But, as explained to you previously, the UK now is not the UK Scotland voted to remain a part of.

 

However, if you are so sure that the majority of Scots will still vote to remain a part of the UK, why are you so afraid of giving them the chance to express that in a referendum?

 

Were the majority to vote to remain in the UK outside of the EU, then this issue really would be over.

 

 

31 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think that the SNP wanted break up the UK a long time before Brexit.

There have been people opposed to the union since it was formed in 1707.

It wasn't an overwhelmingly popular idea, or as some see it imposition.

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Who are you referring to with 'they''

 

If Scotland, you are wrong and as I say... new circumstances... let them vote.

 

Or are you worried england might lose...

New circumstances.????????????????????????

I think that the First Minister lying, with-holding evidence and repeating over a hundred times that she didn't know anything in an inquiry could be best described as "new circumstances" don't you? That believe you me is a game changer, she and a lot of disciples are on a hiding to nothing, only one in three Scots now believe that NS has been entirely honest.

47 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Ah yes, Australian isn't he?

Still no doubt it was a lucrative bandwagon!

He was born in US.

Off topic i know but think he moved to oz at about 13.

 

Nicole kidman, hong kong i think. Sam neill, russell crowe, kiwis.

 

Bee gees, british.

 

But us ozzies do have a penchant for claiming anything that is not ours.

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

New circumstances.????????????????????????

I think that the First Minister lying, with-holding evidence and repeating over a hundred times that she didn't know anything in an inquiry could be best described as "new circumstances" don't you? That believe you me is a game changer, she and a lot of disciples are on a hiding to nothing, only one in three Scots now believe that NS has been entirely honest.

are you saying brexit wasnt a major change?

 

Btw, it has nothing to do with voring for a scottish parliament party. Its to do with whether scotland wants to be part of a uk that isnt part if the eu.

 

Let them vote.

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

New circumstances.????????????????????????

I think that the First Minister lying, with-holding evidence and repeating over a hundred times that she didn't know anything in an inquiry could be best described as "new circumstances" don't you? That believe you me is a game changer, she and a lot of disciples are on a hiding to nothing, only one in three Scots now believe that NS has been entirely honest.

Hmm deflection there as well...

 

Ironic really, however, if it is going to end in tears for those wishing independence-why are you so against any referendum on such...

I don't have a opinion either way but seems to me that to give independence of a country that has its foremost two leaders squabbling like a couple of spoilt brats over some personal slight would just be downright irresponsible.

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Hmm deflection there as well...

 

Ironic really, however, if it is going to end in tears for those wishing independence-why are you so against any referendum on such...

Isn't it strange that anything you cannot find an answer to is "deflection"

A referendum has been done and dusted, it hasn't gone the losers way so it is 'I'll Thweem and I'll Thweem till I get another' I am afraid democracy doesn't work like that, the losers should give consent to the result or we may end up like a fascist state.

 

1 minute ago, Beachcomber said:

I don't have a opinion either way but seems to me that to give independence of a country that has its foremost two leaders squabbling like a couple of spoilt brats over some personal slight would just be downright irresponsible.

That's radical......a red signature...can't see that lasting very long.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Isn't it strange that anything you cannot find an answer to is "deflection"

A referendum has been done and dusted, it hasn't gone the losers way so it is 'I'll Thweem and I'll Thweem till I get another' I am afraid democracy doesn't work like that, the losers should give consent to the result or we may end up like a fascist state.

 

I've answered all your relevant points despite your deflections.

 

The last referendum was before the uk left the EU, against the wishes of The Scots.

 

Circumstances are different now and people should be allowed to vote on whether they accept these or wish to leave the union.

 

Many have changed their view since brexit.

 

Why are you so afraid of a referendum?

 

Oh and do leave the fascist hyperbole out of this...that's just project fear nonsense...

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

ßloody hell it's a country now?.......I need to stop reading the Express.

LOL..it was vogie's post that said that though...not mine.

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Everybody is assuming that Scotland does want independence and this is clearly not the case. The only people that want independence are the SNP, the Scots have clearly stated that they wish to remain within the United Kingdom and their wishes should be respected.

how do you know that Vogie, are you a fortune teller, palm & tarot card reader or did you conducted your own survey/poll.... let the people of Scotland decide or their future not you nor the puppets in Westminster