Thais with dual nationality -Thai & Thai Gov't attitude toward

[lolex]

Hello everyone,

 

My Thai daughter is likely to qualify for a passport in my home country.

 

I've read and heard different stories about the Thai & Thai Gov't attitude towards Thais with a second nationality/passport. I heard many years ago that this was not allowed by the Gov't and Thais had to give up their second nationality if they did not want to lose their right to live in Thailand. My friend's wife has dual nationality and has no problems using two passports.

 

There seem to be rumours of increasing prejuduce against Farangs....whether this is a consequence of Covid or just more talked about when the tourist business dried up...I have no idea. I once lived in Cornwall...and we locals did not like the rich folk from SE England at all...

 

So, any informed opinion or knowledge on this will be much appreciated. My questions really are:

 

Q1  if/when my daughter gets a second nationality....is that something we should keep secret ?

 

Q2  Are there any Thai laws that affect its citizens re dual nationality ?

 

Thanks a lot....

[Kwasaki]

Never heard of any Thai & Thai Gov't attitude towards Thais with a second nationality, many Thais get look like westerner from what I see.

 

On Thai TV many Thais look dual nationality if you ask me,  I ask my wife many times seeing he or she on screen are they Thai, always yes.

[kokesaat]

Been married for 48 years, wife a dual US/Thai citizen for 41 years, until recently traveled on her US passport, did extensions of stay with me in Thailand for 24 years, never an issue UNTIL:  Covid.

We were in the US, she on her US passport.  Then when we tried to return, she was told she couldn't return on her US passport,  she needed her Thai passport (due to travel restrictions for US citizens).  Problem was, her Thai passport had long expired.  Thankfully, the folks at the Thai Embassy in DC helped her obtain a temporary passport.  

Likewise we know of several now adult Thai children who obtained dual citizenship when they were born.  They've traveled abroad, lived/schooled/married abroad and in Thailand......and I'm not aware of any problems they've had as dual citizens.

I wouldn't go flaunt dual citizenship.....it's there if you want it......it's an option B in case plan A doesn't work.......it might be a get out of jail card if things turn sour........here or there.

[kwonitoy]

My son is dual Canadian/Thai, born and raised in Thailand

 

Q1. No.  My son is very visible as being a half farang, he favors me about 80%, never had a problem with any people or with any official, their pleased as punch and usually very surprised when he speaks Thai with them, He's fluently bilingual and working on a third. I got his Canadian citizenship sorted before his first birthday and Canadian passport soon after, also have his Thai passport up to date.

When we deal with Thai officials its all Thai, they don't care about other nationality's so don't bring it up

 

Q2. No. The only thing I will have to keep up on in the Thai military draft in 10 years, we won't be in Thailand so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. You having a Daughter won't have that bridge at all

Edited March 25, 2021 by kwonitoy

[JeffersLos]

My two half Thai half Western sons born in Thailand have always had both Thai and foreign passports from as soon as we were able to apply for them. 

 

They leave Thailand on their Thai passport, enter  another country with their Western passport, and the same when returning, they've never had any problems with anything. 

[JeffersLos]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

On Thai TV many Thais look dual nationality if you ask me

 

Just not the servants, they paint them black. 

[Nip]

18 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

My two half Thai half Western sons born in Thailand have always had both Thai and foreign passports from as soon as we were able to apply for them. 

 

They leave Thailand on their Thai passport, enter  another country with their Western passport, and the same when returning, they've never had any problems with anything. 

I concur entirely. My son enters and departs Thailand on his Thai passport and uses his other passport for other countries. Never an issue. That said he always carries both passports. 

[millymoopoo]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:00 AM, lolex said:

I've read and heard different stories about the Thai & Thai Gov't attitude towards Thais with a second nationality/passport. I heard many years ago that this was not allowed by the Gov't and Thais had to give up their second nationality if they did not want to lose their right to live in Thailand

So my partner has, recently, dual nationality. Just got their Australian citizenship.

Thus (thanks to corona virus) we've not had the opportunity to 'test the waters'.!

They have a friend who has had dual nationality for many years.

Apparently, according to this friend, they are not entitled to a Thai passport (note: passport not nationality) because they are seen as Australian with an Australian passport.

Thai regulations, not Australian regulations.

However there is a work around.

This person keeps and whenever necessary updates/renews their Thai ID card.

They rarely travel back but do occasional (to renew their ID) and enter via visa exempt.

And thus when they want a Thai passport they just use their ID to get one, as that's all that is required for a passport.

Thus one would assume from this that dual nationality is not a problem but dual passports are.!

If/when your daughter gets her Thai ID card just renew it when required and if she ever wants a Thai passport all she needs is the ID card to get one.

[a6patch]

19 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Apparently, according to this friend, they are not entitled to a Thai passport (note: passport not nationality) because they are seen as Australian with an Australian passport.

Thai regulations, not Australian regulations.

However there is a work around.

This person keeps and whenever necessary updates/renews their Thai ID card.

They rarely travel back but do occasional (to renew their ID) and enter via visa exempt.

And thus when they want a Thai passport they just use their ID to get one, as that's all that is required for a passport.

Thus one would assume from this that dual nationality is not a problem but dual passports are.!

If/when your daughter gets her Thai ID card just renew it when required and if she ever wants a Thai passport all she needs is the ID card to get one.

 

This doesn't really make sense.  Thai's are entitled to Thai passports, period.  The dual citizenship and other passport is not a factor.  Your "work around" isn't really a work around, it is simply how Thai citizens and passports are administered.  Any Thai citizen knows they need their ID card.  And to get a Thai passport you present your valid ID card.  

 

I don't see why you think dual passports are a problem.  Each passport is maintained in their respective countries using that countries processes.  In Thailand you use your Thai ID card.  Elsewhere it might be a birth certificate or some such thing.  Nowhere would you use a foreign country's passport as ID to get a domestic passport.  If you walk into the Thai passport agency and ask to get a Thai passport, and present your Austrian passport, if course they are going to say "no mas".   

[jmcet]

My 2 daughters (Born in Thailand) and my granddaughter (born in the US) have dual nationality and dual passports. They always use their US passport except for entering and leaving Thailand. Last renewal of Thai passports was in the states and the Thai Government is fully aware of the second nationality so it would seem to not be a problem to have both dual nationality and passports.

[Scott Tracy]

The wife gained UK citizenship and has a British Passport. She leaves Thailand using the Thai passport, arrives Thailand using Thai passport. Arrives UK using British passport, leaves UK using Thai passport. Never been an issue. No one needs to know that she has dual nationality. Why should they?

[Salerno]

38 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Apparently, according to this friend, they are not entitled to a Thai passport

 

I hope you never ask for, or follow, advice from this friend.

[brewsterbudgen]

Thailand is very relaxed about dual nationality - I just wish Laos was the same, as dual nationality is illegal ????

[foreverlomsak]

Only issue I've directly come across was when my wife applied for a Welfare card, me being a retired teacher from Thai schools, she was refused "because of her western family name".

[LukKrueng]

On 3/25/2021 at 5:00 AM, lolex said:

Q1  if/when my daughter gets a second nationality....is that something we should keep secret ?

 

Q2  Are there any Thai laws that affect its citizens re dual nationality ?

A1 they don't have special mark on the forehead to indicate second citizenship. If you want to tell people about it you can, if you don't want - nobody will know (not care) 

 

A2 that law (of single nationality for Thais) was dropped about 30 years ago, so no problems there. 

 

The correct way to live with 2 passports is always get in/ out of the citizenship country with its passport, and enter other countries with whichever passport is best for that country (for example flying to Europe with a Thai passport requires a visa which costs money and even if no problems to get it - it still takes time and some procedures, whereas with most western passports you can just fly in).

 

As for@kokesaat remark about his wife always travelling to Thailand with a US passport - doable but not the correct way (need extensions if stay longer, not allowed to work etc'). And his remark of not being able to fly into Thailand on a us passport due to Covid - I guess that was when Thailand was closed and allowed only Thais to enter

[digibum]

Thai wife obtained US citizenship, we've been in and out of Thailand several times with no problems.  We now live in Thailand but have had no problems with her dual citizenship.  

 

It's funny because a little over half a dozen of her Thai friends in the US have gotten dual citizenship since she did and I've become the unofficial advisor to all of them on how to travel on their Thai and US passports.  LOL.  

 

Always enter and leave Thailand on a Thai passport.  Always enter and leave the US on a US passport.  

 

The part that trips up many is that the airlines need to know they have permission to enter the country they're flying to.  So, even though they are leaving Thailand on a Thai passport, they need to show the airline their American passport so the airline will allow them to check in.  

 

They always think a SWAT team is going to crash through the roof and haul them off to Gitmo if they pull out a second passport.  LOL.  

 

Even if going to a different country where the US passport allows visa-free (within their rules) travel, like the EU, check in with the US passport, when going through immigration at Suvarnabhumi show the Thai passport.  Upon arrival in the EU, show the US passport and when checking in to leave the EU, show Thai passport.  If there is immigration on departure, show the US passport to get stamped out.  Upon arrival back in Thailand, show the Thai passport.  

 

Every few months I get a text message, "Ok, I'm on my way to the airport, what passport do I use?"  LOL

 

The other thing that makes it a bit of a hassle is that many airlines lock you into a nationality in their reservation system.  For instance, when I've traveled with my wife prior to her US citizenship we used her Thai passport.  Now, I cannot book a flight and change her nationality to US (I probably could if I created an entirely new account for her but . . .why?).  

[StevieAus]

My Thai wife has Thai and Australian passports our daughter has Thai, Australian and UK passports.

We have never experienced any problem when traveling or when they were renewed only recently.

[millymoopoo]

2 hours ago, a6patch said:

This doesn't really make sense.  Thai's are entitled to Thai passports, period.  The dual citizenship and other passport is not a factor.  Your "work around" isn't really a work around, it is simply how Thai citizens and passports are administered.  Any Thai citizen knows they need their ID card.  And to get a Thai passport you present your valid ID card.  

This is just how my partners friend (Pornchai) works it. I don't profess to be knowledgeable on the subject. He is Thai, what makes sense to them does not always make sense to us.

I would assume one of the difficulties would be leaving your country of residence/nationality on that passport and entering the Kingdom on a Thai passport, usually immigration like to see a port of embarkation stamp, or read in the biometric chip.

[millymoopoo]

2 hours ago, Salerno said:

I hope you never ask for, or follow, advice from this friend.

I really don't have any experience of this, I'm just relaying what my partners friend does.

Weird as it may seem, they've been doing it like so for at least 20 years.

[4MyEgo]

On 3/25/2021 at 9:00 AM, lolex said:

There seem to be rumours of increasing prejuduce against Farangs....

 

I believe this is in every race, I say that as I see a particular race back in my old country not conforming and doing as they like, so that makes me a racist apparently.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 9:00 AM, lolex said:

Q1  if/when my daughter gets a second nationality....is that something we should keep secret ?

 

Q2  Are there any Thai laws that affect its citizens re dual nationality ?

 

A1 No need to tell anyone, and no doubt they will have passports to that nationality, only need to show it to airport staff when required, nobody else's business.

 

A2 None, my wife has dual citizenship as do our daughters, all of them have Thai and new Citizenship passports, never been an issue.

 

Just do what makes you and the Mrs happy, don't worry about anyone else, dual is best for wife and daughters, gold passes I call them.

[KIWILEE]

I understand that Thais are not allowed dual citizenship BUT it never seems to be policed. My wife has had dual passports for 15 years and it has never been a hastle, in fact the Thai immigration advised her what passport to use. Basically when entering or leaving Thailand, use your Thai passport.  

[DPKANKAN]

It's actually the other way round. My friend who has lived here years, residency, fluent in Thai with a Thai passport. Tried to use it to go out the country and was told "You no Thai you Ferrang cannot go out country" 5555????????????????

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

I would assume one of the difficulties would be leaving your country of residence/nationality on that passport and entering the Kingdom on a Thai passport, usually immigration like to see a port of embarkation stamp, or read in the biometric chip.

 

Sorry, your assumed "difficulty" is actually how it works. Your partner should from now on (when travelling again) leave Australia on here Aussie passport and enter/leave Thailand on her Thai passport. 

 

Many countries don't stamp you out (Australia being one) nor does the biometric chip in our passports hold travel data.

 

16 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

I really don't have any experience of this, I'm just relaying what my partners friend does.

Weird as it may seem, they've been doing it like so for at least 20 years.

 

No worries, but he is way off the mark. But if he's happy and it works for him no need to correct him ... "face" and all!

[Thomas J]

My Fiance is native Thai but was once married and lived in Norway.  So she maintains both a Norwegian Passport and Thailand Passport.  She typically will use the Norwegian Passport when leaving the country and entering a country open to Norwegians but requiring a visa for Thai's.  Upon return she will use her Thai Passport and will at some times be questioned as to her return as to whether she has two passports since they can identify she did not leave the country on her Thai Passport. 

Never have encountered any sort of prejudice. 

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, KIWILEE said:

I understand that Thais are not allowed dual citizenship BUT it never seems to be policed.

 

You understand wrong I'm afraid. 

 

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-dual-citizenship/

[nahkit]

On 3/25/2021 at 5:00 AM, lolex said:

Are there any Thai laws that affect its citizens re dual nationality ?

I think you'll find that if they have dual nationality they can't be prime minister, unless, of course, they were to re-write the constitution to allow it. Not that anyone would re-write the constitution just so they could be appointed, would they?

[digibum]

7 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

Many countries don't stamp you out (Australia being one) nor does the biometric chip in our passports hold travel data.

US also doesn’t stamp out US passports.  In fact, I don’t think there’s even an immigration check on departure.  
 

Also, some countries do not stamp you in or out, Israel being one.  They just give you a slip of paper that they collect on departure.  Supposedly this is to prevent the traveler from being hassled traveling through countries hostile to Israel.  
 

Cuba used to do something similar for US passports when Americans were prohibited from visiting there.  No stamp to explain to US immigration.  

[bermondburi]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:19 PM, nahkit said:

I think you'll find that if they have dual nationality they can't be prime minister, unless, of course, they were to re-write the constitution to allow it. Not that anyone would re-write the constitution just so they could be appointed, would they?

I remember reading somewhere that dual nationals can't become an officer rank in the army either.

[sirineou]

Never a problem with the wife for over 12 years now , Leave the US on her US passport, enter Thailand with her Thai passport, leave Thailand with Thai passport , enter US with US passport. Not a problem on even once.  

in fact she might be getting Triple nationality in the next Three years, When we move to Greece, due to my dual Nationality. . 

[soi3eddie]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:08 AM, foreverlomsak said:

Only issue I've directly come across was when my wife applied for a Welfare card, me being a retired teacher from Thai schools, she was refused "because of her western family name".

 

Reminds me of the time in 2004 in Nakhon Si Thammarat at the Amphur office. My son was born in the UK to his Thai mother, has a Thai birth certificate and a Thai passport (obtained at RTE London). The Amphur officials said he could not go on the Tabian Baan as "he's not Thai". Wife, her sister and Puu Yai Baan held out and after 6 hours the Amphur staff reluctantly added him to the house register.

 

Both wife and son always entered and departed Thailand on Thai passports and enter most other countries on their British passports. Never a problem. Even one time I was entering BKK with just my son, the immigration officer could not find record of departure on his Thai passport. Officer asked if he had another passport. Gave him UK passport but still could not locate his departure. Turns out son had previously departed Thailand with his mother using the automated gates so no stamp. It was not a problem at all him having two passports.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by soi3eddie