Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[ubonjoe]

A baiting post and the expected replies to it have been removed.

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, Barty said:

I am a NZ citizen. I did get a letter of renouncement from the NZ embassy.

How long ago was that? 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Indeed, don't believe half of what you hear.

Only a fool would believe a smidgeon on here. 

Some people that give advice or take advice on here, think it's the local free law shop. 

It's an opinion site. 

Not one of us is qualified to diseminate knowledge that is anything other than personal opinion. I've always known that. 

Most on here don't. 

That's why they get upset. 

[sathuluv]

Guys, done with my Oath at the SB Office today along with finger prints.
Officer mentioned that wait for 3-4months for the official approval and letter.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[NewlyMintedThai]

Only a fool would believe a smidgeon on here. 
Some people that give advice or take advice on here, think it's the local free law shop. 
It's an opinion site. 
Not one of us is qualified to diseminate knowledge that is anything other than personal opinion. I've always known that. 
Most on here don't. 
That's why they get upset. 

Certain posters know more what they are talking about than others.

But, indeed: caveat emptor:


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[greenchair]

1 hour ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

 

Certain posters know more what they are talking about than others.

But, indeed: caveat emptor:


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I had to look that up. 

But yes ???

[Naam]

8 hours ago, Arkady said:

While Britain is still in the EU retaining British and other EU citizenships is I think automatic as a reciprocal agreement. 

that agreement exists and it covers also non-EU Switzerland.

[samran]

9 hours ago, Will27 said:

A bit over the top Naam.

 

I heard they at least had to have a Miele vacuum cleaner a well.

Thai citizenship is passed down predominantly by blood. A 5th generation immigrant could have claim citizenship if at one point a great great great grandparent just happened to be born in the land o smiles. 

[Smokegreynblues]

On 1/24/2018 at 8:50 PM, greenchair said:

Well according to chapter 2 section 19 (4) no might be about it. 

The minister has the power to revoke nationality if you go against public order. 

But anyway, my point is, that law would be useless if you have renounced your birth nationality. So it surprises me that thailand would even allow an intention to renounce. 

It would put them in a difficult position if a man raped a woman or was selling drugs or committed a crime against the state. 

The section reads "against Public order or good morals" is the legal clause to be used by the minister . I am quite skeptical if he ever used that power in the recent years, do people here have any idea of naturalized thai's committing minor crimes and being stateless?

[greenchair]

27 minutes ago, Christopherabhadra said:

The section reads "against Public order or good morals" is the legal clause to be used by the minister . I am quite skeptical if he ever used that power in the recent years, do people here have any idea of naturalized thai's committing minor crimes and being stateless?

Well, I didn't say minor crimes. 

The interpretation could be broad if the minister wanted it to be. 

"Public order or good morals " selling drugs, murder, rape, assault, bank robbery, constantly a drunken nuisance could all fit. According to another poster there have been no cases of revocation, but that might be because in the past there weren't many applications by western people. Now more people are applying, it might change. 

My point is, just because you are a citizen, doesn't ever give the same status as a birth citizen. You are still a guest in Thailand. 

Basically you are on a visa with perks. 

Behave yourself. 

[Barty]

21 hours ago, greenchair said:

How long ago was that? 

December 2016. 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, Barty said:

December 2016. 

Sorry to be rude. 

Is yours through marriage or pr 

[Barty]

55 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Sorry to be rude. 

Is yours through marriage or pr 

I have PR but I am doing it through marriage as it is easier. 

[Neeranam]

On 25/01/2018 at 2:39 PM, sathuluv said:

Guys, done with my Oath at the SB Office today along with finger prints.
Officer mentioned that wait for 3-4months for the official approval and letter.


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Well done!

Interesting that you had to cover the fingerprints then. I had to give them when making the initial application.

[aidenai]

Well done!
Interesting that you had to cover the fingerprints then. I had to give them when making the initial application.

That fingerprint session is for verification purposes.

[greenchair]

7 hours ago, Barty said:

I have PR but I am doing it through marriage as it is easier. 

So why do you need a renounciation letter. 

I thought that was only for application through pr. 

[greenchair]

On 1/25/2018 at 2:39 PM, sathuluv said:

Guys, done with my Oath at the SB Office today along with finger prints.
Officer mentioned that wait for 3-4months for the official approval and letter.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Well done. 

Hard parts over. 

[Arkady]

22 hours ago, Barty said:

I have PR but I am doing it through marriage as it is easier. 

It is easier in as much as you don't have to sing or be able to speak Thai and the salary requirement is B40,000 a month instead of B80,000 a month.  But if anything happens to your wife or your marriage during the application process, and certainly before the MOI interview, your application may be rejected as no longer qualified without the option to transfer to a PR based application. It is definitely a good option for those earning between B40,000 and B80,000 a month and those without Thai language and singing skills. Otherwise I don't see any advantage.     

[Arkady]

15 hours ago, greenchair said:

So why do you need a renounciation letter. 

I thought that was only for application through pr. 

It is required all applications for naturalisation which includes applications based both on PR and marriage to a Thai.

[Arkady]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:39 PM, greenchair said:

Only a fool would believe a smidgeon on here. 

Some people that give advice or take advice on here, think it's the local free law shop. 

It's an opinion site. 

Not one of us is qualified to diseminate knowledge that is anything other than personal opinion. I've always known that. 

Most on here don't. 

That's why they get upset. 

Like anything else in life the thread is not perfect but, apart from the official sources in Thai (and even SB has taken down most of the useful information that used to be on its website), there are hardly any other decent sources in Thai or English on this topic and most Thai law firms are ignorant about the process but greedy for fees and unnecessary bribes which they might just keep for themselves. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff but I personally found it an invaluable source of information in the early days of the thread that encouraged me to apply.  Posters like dbrenn, TheChiefJustice, Samran and others provided hugely valuable information based on their own experiences.  Personally I think the thread offers pretty good value for your money.     

[anon789561]

On 1/25/2018 at 5:39 AM, greenchair said:

Only a fool would believe a smidgeon on here. 

Some people that give advice or take advice on here, think it's the local free law shop. 

It's an opinion site. 

Not one of us is qualified to diseminate knowledge that is anything other than personal opinion. I've always known that. 

Most on here don't. 

That's why they get upset. 

well that is none sense. plenty of good advice on here. 

[greenchair]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

Like anything else in life the thread is not perfect but, apart from the official sources in Thai (and even SB has taken down most of the useful information that used to be on its website), there are hardly any other decent sources in Thai or English on this topic and most Thai law firms are ignorant about the process but greedy for fees and unnecessary bribes which they might just keep for themselves. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff but I personally found it an invaluable source of information in the early days of the thread that encouraged me to apply.  Posters like dbrenn, TheChiefJustice, Samran and others provided hugely valuable information based on their own experiences.  Personally I think the thread offers pretty good value for your money.     

It's a chat site. 

A nice chat site with interesting opinions. 

It's not a substitute for qualified legal advice. Or the advice from government officials. 

Kind of illegal to suggest that it is anything other than that. 

 

 

[greenchair]

5 hours ago, Happy enough said:

well that is none sense. plenty of good advice on here. 

Well yes there a lot of good opinions and experience on here. Of which I have gleaned off sparadically. Still, it is a chat site based on opinions that may not be the same and different experience that might not be the same. 

It should be treated as such. 

[Barty]

7 hours ago, Arkady said:

It is easier in as much as you don't have to sing or be able to speak Thai and the salary requirement is B40,000 a month instead of B80,000 a month.  But if anything happens to your wife or your marriage during the application process, and certainly before the MOI interview, your application may be rejected as no longer qualified without the option to transfer to a PR based application. It is definitely a good option for those earning between B40,000 and B80,000 a month and those without Thai language and singing skills. Otherwise I don't see any advantage.     

I am not concerned about my marriage failing and should my wife die during the process I think I would have other things on my mind more than citizenship.

 

My advice to anyone applying for Thai citizenship under marriage and do not have children, be prepared to explain why you don’t have kids. My wife and I got married later in life and she unfortunately had menopause early in her life. At the first interview at special branch in Bangkok we were asked repeatably why we don’t have children and we honestly answered that it was not possible. The officer kept asking why would we get married if we didn’t or couldn’t have children. I left that interview a tad pissed off.

 

We were later visited by another police officer who inspected out house and interviewed our neighbours to verify that we really lived together. In that interview he explained to our neighbours that a lot of foreigners marry Thais to get around various visa issues. I did try to explain to him that since I have had PR since 2003 I didn’t need to be married to get around visa issues. He also frequently, and I think quite rudely, asked why we do not have children. He also asked if we had any medical records that could show that my wife had menopause. At the end of that interview I was yet again a tad pissed off.

 

[Arkady]

A baiting post and replies were removed.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

It's a chat site. 

A nice chat site with interesting opinions. 

It's not a substitute for qualified legal advice. Or the advice from government officials. 

Kind of illegal to suggest that it is anything other than that. 

 

 

That is as may be.  It is a pity that there are no websites purveying advice from the relevant government officials and few law firms have any expertise in this area.  If the opposite were true, there might be less interest in this thread.    

[skippybangkok]

Well, I didn't say minor crimes. 
The interpretation could be broad if the minister wanted it to be. 
"Public order or good morals " selling drugs, murder, rape, assault, bank robbery, constantly a drunken nuisance could all fit. According to another poster there have been no cases of revocation, but that might be because in the past there weren't many applications by western people. Now more people are applying, it might change. 
My point is, just because you are a citizen, doesn't ever give the same status as a birth citizen. You are still a guest in Thailand. 
Basically you are on a visa with perks. 
Behave yourself. 

The Big Tiger prison is most likely a better incentive to stay away from


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[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Barty said:

I am not concerned about my marriage failing and should my wife die during the process I think I would have other things on my mind more than citizenship.

 

 

 

My advice to anyone applying for Thai citizenship under marriage and do not have children, be prepared to explain why you don’t have kids. My wife and I got married later in life and she unfortunately had menopause early in her life. At the first interview at special branch in Bangkok we were asked repeatably why we don’t have children and we honestly answered that it was not possible. The officer kept asking why would we get married if we didn’t or couldn’t have children. I left that interview a tad pissed off.

 

 

 

We were later visited by another police officer who inspected out house and interviewed our neighbours to verify that we really lived together. In that interview he explained to our neighbours that a lot of foreigners marry Thais to get around various visa issues. I did try to explain to him that since I have had PR since 2003 I didn’t need to be married to get around visa issues. He also frequently, and I think quite rudely, asked why we do not have children. He also asked if we had any medical records that could show that my wife had menopause. At the end of that interview I was yet again a tad pissed off.

 

I don 't blame you for being pissed off by such offensive rudeness regarding a highly sensitive subject.  You would think the policeman would want to station an officer in a couple's bedroom to check they were doing their duty.  I was in a similar situation being married to a Thai but without children and in the end I applied on the basis of PR.  But our experiences differed over the questioning.  I regard whether we have children or not as a personal matter that is none of their business beyond the question do you have children or not which, of course they have a right to ask.  I also got married late in life but my wife is still of child bearing age, so we always just replied jokily, "We're trying, we're trying" and sometimes, "maybe we're working too hard and should take more time off",  thus closing the way for any more questions on the topic.   All the officials accepted these replies in good humour and didn't ask any more prying questions. 

 

At the end of day it doesn't matter a damn whether you have children or not and, if you have PR, it doesn't matter whether you are single, married to a Thai or married to another foreigner.  Everyone who ticks all the boxes gets through but the officials, for reasons better known to themselves, like to pretend these issues are terribly important, as if your chances will be drastically diminished if you have failed to do your eugenic duty and father a Thai child or have refused to even marry a Thai at all. I know several confirmed bachelors who have gone through the process.  Of course they had a much harder time with the interrogation and explaining why they weren't married at all.  One of them took a humorous approach when asked the question at the MOI, by telling them he was still looking for Miss Right and asking the chairman of the panel, if he had someone to recommend. The chairman pointed to a dried up looking, mid fiftyish lady on the panel and said, "What about her, she's still single".  At this point everyone in the room, except the dried up looking lady split their sides with laughter and that was the end of that line of questioning.                

 

 

[anon789561]

2 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

I don 't blame you for being pissed off by such offensive rudeness regarding a highly sensitive subject.  You would think the policeman would want to station an officer in a couple's bedroom to check they were doing their duty.  I was in a similar situation being married to a Thai but without children and in the end I applied on the basis of PR.  But our experiences differed over the questioning.  I regard whether we have children or not as a personal matter that is none of their business beyond the question do you have children or not which, of course they have a right to ask.  I also got married late in life but my wife is still of child bearing age, so we always just replied jokily, "We're trying, we're trying" and sometimes, "maybe we're working too hard and should take more time off",  thus closing the way for any more questions on the topic.   All the officials accepted these replies in good humour and didn't ask any more prying questions. 

 

At the end of day it doesn't matter a damn whether you have children or not and, if you have PR, it doesn't matter whether you are single, married to a Thai or married to another foreigner.  Everyone who ticks all the boxes gets through but the officials, for reasons better known to themselves, like to pretend these issues are terribly important, as if your chances will be drastically diminished if you have failed to do your eugenic duty and father a Thai child or have refused to even marry a Thai at all. I know several confirmed bachelors who have gone through the process.  Of course they had a much harder time with the interrogation and explaining why they weren't married at all.  One of them took a humorous approach when asked the question at the MOI, by telling them he was still looking for Miss Right and asking the chairman of the panel, if he had someone to recommend. The chairman pointed to a dried up looking, mid fiftyish lady on the panel and said, "What about her, she's still single".  At this point everyone in the room, except the dried up looking lady split their sides with laughter and that was the end of that line of questioning.                

 

 

lol

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, greenchair said:

It's a chat site. 

A nice chat site with interesting opinions. 

It's not a substitute for qualified legal advice. Or the advice from government officials. 

Kind of illegal to suggest that it is anything other than that. 

 

 

I agree that talking about the price of short term take aways in pattaya, or many other threads are like a chat site, but NOT this one.

I've had extremely useful advice here from yourself and a few others, especially Arkady, who gives extensive, accurate advice on many issues.

There are some here who are lawyers, some who know more than lawyers, read Thai forums on the subject etc. Seeking advice and experience from those who have gone before us is what it's all about.

 

I had a nice day near the ministry of education. The NIA have an office in the grounds of  Paruskavan palace. We talked with a nice guy, who ushered us in, for 40 minutes about gardening, and then his wife came and took us for an interview. Lovely couple who made my day. The guy practically hugged me on the way out! I think it was the tip on how to grow lemons, and noni fruit, and the benefits of a hot toddy!

Lucky I took all the documents as they asked to see some they never told me to take,  like degrees. All the interviewers were women. Others seemed to be seen by two, but us only one.

 

Another trip to Bangkok done!

 

What next, I wonder. The SB still haven't been round to my house.