Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[saakura]

9 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I know the ID card is the final step which is evidence of being Thai national, but as the question "at what step do you become Thai?" is sometimes part of the knowledge questionnaire about Thailand and the citizenship process, do you know -from a legal standpoint- what is the correct answer : is it after taking the oath, after the Minister has signed the naturalization decree or when it's being published to RG? anyone knows?

As others have mentioned, the publication in the Royal Gazette is the final confirmation. On the basis that you are now a Thai citizen, you can then apply for a Thai id.

 

[Neeranam]

10 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I know the ID card is the final step which is evidence of being Thai national, but as the question "at what step do you become Thai?" is sometimes part of the knowledge questionnaire about Thailand and the citizenship process, do you know -from a legal standpoint- what is the correct answer : is it after taking the oath, after the Minister has signed the naturalization decree or when it's being published to RG? anyone knows?

The SB officer congratulated me on being Thai immediately after the oath. Therefore, I would say that is when you become a Thai citizen. HM the King has signed and you've done the Oath. The next stage is a formality, but what would happen if you threw your old passport away and got asked for it by a policeman? 

What would happen if you threw away your passport after the RG announcement? Would an immigration officer accept that as proof of being Thai? 

Are you ever asked for your old passport by SB/Amphur after the Oath stage? 

[khongaeng]

12 hours ago, GarryP said:

Obviously you do not need an ID card to be Thai, as children under 15 (the age may have changed) do not have ID cards. 

  

Interestingly enough that was one of the questions on my multiple choice test.  The answer is children are now required to get their ID cards within 1 month after their 7th birthday.  I can't point to a law, but I remember being told it was a law that was passed to help mitigate child-trafficking in Thailand.  This ID card is good until their 16th birthday, at which point when they renew the ID they are given an "adult" Thai ID card, that is good for the standard 10 years.  The ID cards are the same for children or adults, it is just that the child ID card is always given an expiration date of the the Child's 16th birthday.

Edited August 31, 2020 by khongaeng

[Neeranam]

55 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

This ID card is good until their 16th birthday, at which point when they renew the ID they are given an "adult" Thai ID card,

It was changed to 15 a few years ago. 

[onthemoon]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The SB officer congratulated me on being Thai immediately after the oath. Therefore, I would say that is when you become a Thai citizen. HM the King has signed and you've done the Oath. The next stage is a formality, but what would happen if you threw your old passport away and got asked for it by a policeman? 

What would happen if you threw away your passport after the RG announcement? Would an immigration officer accept that as proof of being Thai? 

Are you ever asked for your old passport by SB/Amphur after the Oath stage? 

According to the law, you become a Thai when it is announced in the RG.

 

I have another question: Somebody mentioned that he was asked not to travel abroad between the Oath and RG announcement. Is that true? Before Covid, I had to travel abroad on business (mostly to neighbouring countries) once or twice a month, so not travelling for three months or so would be difficult. If you are not Thai yet, what would be the problem using the old passport?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

7 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

[...] Somebody mentioned that he was asked not to travel abroad between the Oath and RG announcement [...]

Perhaps this is linked to the RG date being not predictable, except for an interval of 2-5 months, and one has to get the ID within 60 days (I think) after RG publication date? Which seems common sense recommendation amid covid19 travel restrictions and potential inability to be back in time. For the rest, I am not sure.

[david143]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

According to the law, you become a Thai when it is announced in the RG.

 

I have another question: Somebody mentioned that he was asked not to travel abroad between the Oath and RG announcement. Is that true? Before Covid, I had to travel abroad on business (mostly to neighbouring countries) once or twice a month, so not travelling for three months or so would be difficult. If you are not Thai yet, what would be the problem using the old passport?

it was me Officer told me not to go out from country until all papers from SB hand over to me, he said because of Covid situation all around the world, it will difficult for me to come back on time, so wait for RG and come back to get your Certificate with party i said Krub.

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

According to the law, you become a Thai when it is announced in the RG.

Indeed. 

My visa extension is up at the end of October, and there is a chance that the RG will be published around then. 

If it is, and I am a Thai citizen, then I would not need to get a new extension, obviously. The big question is if the immigration would accept seeing my name in the RG as proof of being Thai?

Hopefully, things will go smoothly and I will get the cert. of naturalization by then. 

Then, I guess I wouldn't need to renew or cancel my visa extension?

 

[david143]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed. 

My visa extension is up at the end of October, and there is a chance that the RG will be published around then. 

If it is, and I am a Thai citizen, then I would not need to get a new extension, obviously. The big question is if the immigration would accept seeing my name in the RG as proof of being Thai?

Hopefully, things will go smoothly and I will get the cert. of naturalization by then. 

Then, I guess I wouldn't need to renew or cancel my visa extension?

 

Hopefully Names will appear in October , if go by procedure every 2 months for RG.

[david143]

2020 First RG was Publish in April .
then as per process  ( May and*June 30th Minister Signed which is Gabba Brother.)
but RG for June 2020 was published on 26 August 2020 the day i took oath.
So it means RG is always on time, but due to Covid it was delay for 4 months.
And for next one should to be in October And Then December .
 

 

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, david143 said:

it was me Officer told me not to go out from country until all papers from SB hand over to me, he said because of Covid situation all around the world, it will difficult for me to come back on time, so wait for RG and come back to get your Certificate with party i said Krub.

Oh, because of Covid. Yes, that makes sense. I thought you were in limbo and were not allowed to use the passport because of that.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

My visa extension is up at the end of October, and there is a chance that the RG will be published around then. 

If it is, and I am a Thai citizen, then I would not need to get a new extension, obviously. The big question is if the immigration would accept seeing my name in the RG as proof of being Thai?

What I would do in such case is explaining the situation to SB and try to get their stamp on a copy of the fresh RG (before the official one) then go to meet CW immigration directly. My gut feeling is that they would accept, I guess you'd have to speak to some senior officer.

[yankee99]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed. 

My visa extension is up at the end of October, and there is a chance that the RG will be published around then. 

If it is, and I am a Thai citizen, then I would not need to get a new extension, obviously. The big question is if the immigration would accept seeing my name in the RG as proof of being Thai?

Hopefully, things will go smoothly and I will get the cert. of naturalization by then. 

Then, I guess I wouldn't need to renew or cancel my visa extension?

 

Ive been thinking about this too. My extension based on marriage is up in December and ill need to get 400k in the bank next month which i dont want to do. If rg isn't published by then im not sure what types of visas are available. Not really worried about my wp anymore ????

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Ive been thinking about this too. My extension based on marriage is up in December and ill need to get 400k in the bank next month which i dont want to do. If rg isn't published by then im not sure what types of visas are available.

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife if you have not gotten one since you last entered using a non-o visa.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife if you have not gotten one since you last entered using a non-o visa.

Interesting, could I get one for my 'having kids' extension?

Might be risky at this late stage of the Naturalization process. Would this count as a 'valid non-immigrant non-o visa extension' which is a requirement for the (whole)process? I think I read somewhere that you must remain working for the whole process. Then again, after the Oath and RG announcement, if they checked your visa and it was not valid, they would be theoretically be revoking your citizenship. 

[khongaeng]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting, could I get one for my 'having kids' extension?

Might be risky at this late stage of the Naturalization process. Would this count as a 'valid non-immigrant non-o visa extension' which is a requirement for the (whole)process? I think I read somewhere that you must remain working for the whole process. Then again, after the Oath and RG announcement, if they checked your visa and it was not valid, they would be theoretically be revoking your citizenship. 

You should be able to get it based on having kids, the advantage of this being that you only have to have the 400k in the Bank on the day you apply as opposed to having it sitting in the account 2 months in advance if you are applying based on marriage.  I would like to find out what you end up doing and if you talk to your SB officer about it, because I am in the boat where I will probably need to renew my WP before the RG posting, fortunately, my visa is good until the beginning of next year.  I will probably ask my SB officer when the time gets closer to find out if I actually need to maintain my WP at this point, or if I can just let it expire before the RG posting.  

[david143]

My visa on based on Marriage with WP will expire on 12 Mar 2021 and WP will be August 05 2021.
I hope everything will go smooth.
 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting, could I get one for my 'having kids' extension?

Might be risky at this late stage of the Naturalization process. Would this count as a 'valid non-immigrant non-o visa extension' which is a requirement for the (whole)process? I think I read somewhere that you must remain working for the whole process. Then again, after the Oath and RG announcement, if they checked your visa and it was not valid, they would be theoretically be revoking your citizenship. 

You can apply for the 60 day extension to visit your wife or children. It will extend your current extension of stay and it does not change its category. You would still be on a extension of the non-o visa entry you go long ago.

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can apply for the 60 day extension to visit your wife or children.

Thanks Joe!

Even though they know I live with them!?

Does this method require the 400k in the bank?

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Even though they know I live with them!?

It does not matter. Visit is just used in the clause for them as a description.

 

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Does this method require the 400k in the bank?

No

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not matter. Visit is just used in the clause for them as a description.

 

No

Is it possible to get a normal 1 year extension after a 60 day extension? Or another 60 day?

Hopefully, that wouldn't be required. 

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Is it possible to get a normal 1 year extension after a 60 day extension?

Yes

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Or another 60 day?

You can only get one per entry to the country and a entry from a re-entry permit does not count as a new entry.

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, khongaeng said:

You should be able to get it based on having kids, the advantage of this being that you only have to have the 400k in the Bank on the day you apply as opposed to having it sitting in the account 2 months in advance if you are applying based on marriage.  I would like to find out what you end up doing and if you talk to your SB officer about it, because I am in the boat where I will probably need to renew my WP before the RG posting, fortunately, my visa is good until the beginning of next year.  I will probably ask my SB officer when the time gets closer to find out if I actually need to maintain my WP at this point, or if I can just let it expire before the RG posting.  

If needed, I think I'd go for the 60 day extension. 

The WP is a tricky one. I'm afraid I don't know the definitive answer to that. Could the SB ask to see it when they give you the certificate of Naturalization? I think they could, but would say nothing if you didn't have it, after all you will a Thai citizen by this point. I would say forget the WP. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If needed, I think I'd go for the 60 day extension. 

The WP is a tricky one. I'm afraid I don't know the definitive answer to that. Could the SB ask to see it when they give you the certificate of Naturalization? I think they could, but would say nothing if you didn't have it, after all you will a Thai citizen by this point. I would say forget the WP. 

I believe the key date would be the Minister signature of the naturalization -which happens several weeks before the RG-. IMO you should not be requiring a WP to work from that date onwards. I don't see how SB could say anything when you come to pick the certificate because you are already naturalized. The problem could come if they see that your WP ended before the minister signature (and you were still working) and maybe you would risk... a fine? but potentially losing naturalization -in the worst case- would be devastating. Of course this is just my view and understanding based on logical events.

 

For sure no one is expected to be working without a WP when naturalization is still in progress, better stick to the rule!

Edited September 2, 2020 by GabbaGabbaHey

[qualtrough]

I am glad to see that things seem to be moving along smoothly at the moment, but I have a concern. What happens if the current incumbent is no longer around to sign these citizenship papers? Something that could easily happen for any number of reasons. Is there any legal provision for someone else to sign these papers if necessary? Especially worrisome is that there is no heir-apparent ready to step in should it become necessary.

[heiri007]

Overall I think it's very generous by Thai authorities to grant citizenships to visa holders. In most parts of the world at least some sort of residency is a basic requirement.

[saakura]

10 minutes ago, heiri007 said:

Overall I think it's very generous by Thai authorities to grant citizenships to visa holders. In most parts of the world at least some sort of residency is a basic requirement.

To be eligible for citizenship you should have been working and paying taxes for a minimum of 3yrs and additionally, either be married to a Thai citizen, or be holding Permanent Resident status for 5yrs.

[heiri007]

4 minutes ago, saakura said:

To be eligible for citizenship you should have been working and paying taxes for a minimum of 3yrs and additionally, either be married to a Thai citizen, or be holding Permanent Resident status for 5yrs.

Of course, it couldn't be that easy. ???? Still, very basic requirements compared to most nations.

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, heiri007 said:

Overall I think it's very generous by Thai authorities to grant citizenships to visa holders. In most parts of the world at least some sort of residency is a basic requirement.

Yes, in Thailand too. Others have replied.

 

A Thai friend of mine just became a German citizen. All she had to do was stay in the country for 8 years and pass a basic language test. Also check out how to become a US or Australian citizen, and how long the process takes once you have applied.

 

In again other countries, you invest a minimum amount of money, or you pay an official fee (with receipt, not the other kind) and are offered citizenship.

 

I think it is comparatively very difficult to become a Thai citizen, and it takes a very long time, because they want to know that anybody who applies is really serious about it. As for the long time it takes here, I am not bothered: I plan to stay here for the rest of my life. Why would it matter whether it takes another year or four for me to become a citizen?

 

Getting PR took me over six years - after applying for it, which mean that I had been on the same work permit for three years. Total just over nine years. Now in the processing of getting Thai citizenship: One day, hopefully during my lifetime, I'll succeed.

[saakura]

It took me about 5yrs after applying (with a ton of documents) to be granted a PR. Then i had to wait a further 5yrs to be eligible to apply for citizenship, which i have done this year, and all going smoothly, may get it in 3-4yrs. So in sum total, about 13yrs. All through this time, i need to be working and paying taxes. So it is not as easy as it sounds, need a huge lot of patience.