Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[qualtrough]

  On 9/3/2024 at 6:16 AM, sas_cars said:

I assume you memorized both songs. How was the singing and was it accepted gleefully? 🙂 

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I obtained citizen through marriage and was not required to sing.

[qualtrough]

  On 9/4/2024 at 3:51 AM, renaissanc said:

Thai nationality isn't for everyone. I've lived in Thailand for 40 years now by renewing my annual Marriage Visa each year. I'm 68 now. I can't see a single practical benefit of being Thai ... except that when I'm 90, 95, or 100+ years old going to Immigration might be troublesome, but by then I think that Marriage Visa renewals will be done online. Even Immigration will discover the benefits of online renewals eventually. If my wife dies before me I'll change my Marriage Visa to a Retirement Visa. Our 25 rescued cats couldn't care less if I'm Thai or British. Nor do my wife, my neighbours, the local shopkeepers, etc.

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Cannot see one practical benefit??

 

No need to deal with immigration ever again. 

 

Immigrations fees/laws/requirements can change. You could wake up one day to find out that your retirement or marriage visa costs twice what it did the other day.

 

You can own or  co-own your home or other property. No need to own through a spouse or third party.

 

No need to obtain a work permit.

 

Can own your own company/business.

 

Thai prices for entry to national parks. Free entry if you are over 60.

 

Coverage under Thai 30 baht health scheme or whatever name it is known by now.

 

Visa free travel to ASEAN countries 

 

No need to sell your house if your wife pre-deceases you, or to have to engage is some kind of legal legerdemain to stay there.

 

No hassles signing up for bank accounts and other programs because you don't have a Thai ID.

 

You can use the Thai line at immigration, potentially savings hours during busy periods.

 

Substantial rail travel discounts for retired people for several months of the year.

 

Too many more to list.

 

And  all that cost less than  10,000 baht in fees, submitting documents, going in for a few interviews. Quite a bargain.

 

 

 

 

[qualtrough]

  On 9/4/2024 at 6:13 AM, Sydebolle said:

And for all the other long staying non-Thais there is the Permanent Residency. I opted for that back in 1988 and never regretted it; never went for citizenship for mainly two reasons. The bureaucratic endeavour is endless and an absolute uphill battle. If an officer changes it is -more often than not - back to Square One. The second reason is, that all the quoted points were not really relevant for me personally; the work permit is a given guarantee as any country allowing a non-citizen to stay indefinitely in the country needs to be given the possibility to earn his living - as stipulated by the WTO. 

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For me it was a pretty simple process.

 

Once I qualified and passed the points test it was simply a document gathering and submission exercise and attending a few interviews. And waiting. Painless really. All the officials I dealt with were very friendly and accommodating. I was lucky as mine too just 3 years start to finish.

[khongaeng]

  On 9/5/2024 at 5:47 AM, JayLeno said:

Guys. Should I wait for the 3 years timeframe (just got married) or can I introduce my request asap? I see the entire process takes at least 5 years 

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Yes, But go ahead and get the yellow book process started.  I've heard that it could take as long as a year (mine took 6 months). If you have a baby sometime in the next 3 years then as soon as your baby is born you can apply (I highly recommend not rushing having children for the sole purpose of applying for Thai citizenship, though 😉)

[JayLeno]

Thanks!

[OJAS]

  On 9/5/2024 at 12:22 PM, qualtrough said:

Immigrations fees/laws/requirements can change. You could wake up one day to find out that your retirement or marriage visa costs twice what it did the other day.

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Or that a significant additional requirement has been imposed on it - as in the case of mandatory health insurance which was abruptly slapped on non-OA visa holders past and present a few years ago.

[Marcati]

  On 9/5/2024 at 5:03 PM, khongaeng said:

Yes, But go ahead and get the yellow book process started.  I've heard that it could take as long as a year (mine took 6 months). If you have a baby sometime in the next 3 years then as soon as your baby is born you can apply (I highly recommend not rushing having children for the sole purpose of applying for Thai citizenship, though 😉)

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The yellow book process is extremely fast an easy provided you have an owner of a property who will let you register at their address.

 

The most painful part is taking your passport to your embassy to get a certified copy and then taking it for an official and certified Thai translation. The certified Thai translation can be done using an online service and they will mail you the originals in 3 working days. Very painless now.

 

Once the documents are submitted at the District office the yellow book and pink ID card are done immediately.

 

My whole process took just a few days to complete.

[qualtrough]

  On 9/6/2024 at 5:55 AM, OJAS said:

 

Or that a significant additional requirement has been imposed on it - as in the case of mandatory health insurance which was abruptly slapped on non-OA visa holders past and present a few years ago.

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I am mystified at the people who apparently live here long term and for whatever reason can't find  any benefit to obtaining citizenship. I suspect it is due to  either lack of imagination, sour grapes, or a combination of the two.

[qualtrough]

I just saw this on Google. It was a link description that shows up when you google citizenship. The thing is, these are listed as the myths of citizenship, but somehow the myth part gets left off!

 

How many foreigners get Thai citizenship?

 

 

 

Only 100 people per year are granted Thai citizenship. You have to live in Thailand for two decades before you can apply; Only people who have 'connections' in high places get citizenship; They only want millionaires to apply; or.

[DrJoy]

  On 9/11/2024 at 1:46 PM, qualtrough said:

I am mystified at the people who apparently live here long term and for whatever reason can't find  any benefit to obtaining citizenship. I suspect it is due to  either lack of imagination, sour grapes, or a combination of the two.

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This thread sure attracts haters, just avoid them and motivate the candidates in the pipeline

[IsaanExpat]

  On 9/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, DrJoy said:

This thread sure attracts haters, just avoid them and motivate the candidates in the pipeline

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+1👍

[Arkady]

  On 9/3/2024 at 10:45 AM, GarryP said:

The pink card must be relatively new as I never had one when I applied.  

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I don't think you need a pink card to apply.  Some going back a year or so offered copies of his pink card and they refused to take it.  As far as a I know it it something that district offices are obliged to issue under the Civil Registration Act but there is no law saying foreigners have to have one.

[Arkady]

  On 9/1/2024 at 3:14 AM, saakura said:

 

Thank you and yes, the news is correct. On 29th Aug, I got a call from SB asking if I still remember having applied for citizenship and if I could attend the MOI committee meeting the next morning. He further asked me if I was still working at the same job and staying in the same residence. An official invitation was sent by email (attached here) asking to carry original PR, WP, Thabien Baan and PP.

Upon reaching next morning, they only asked for a copy of my WP and tax submissions for 2023 (which I did not have and explained that it was not mentioned in the letter. They accepted to receive it by email but no mention of it was made again and I did not ask). The interview itself lasted about 7 minutes with very general banter about work, family, hobbies, food etc. Thank you for all the support and I will update any further developments.

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Excellent news that they have resumed interviews at long last. 

 

The bad news is they are asking for tax returns and WPs at the meeting. That will sink people who have ceased working before the interview.  That has always been a significant risk.

 

[onthemoon]

  On 9/17/2024 at 9:01 AM, Arkady said:

 

Excellent news that they have resumed interviews at long last. 

 

The bad news is they are asking for tax returns and WPs at the meeting. That will sink people who have ceased working before the interview.  That has always been a significant risk.

 

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They asked for the WP, but we don't know what would happen if you say you have retired in the meantime. After all, the process is taking very long. Is there a regulation stating that you have to have a WP during the whole process, including oath and finally picking up the result? Or until when? I would hope the regulation - when scrutinised - should say that you have to have one at time of application.

[DrJoy]

  On 9/17/2024 at 10:15 AM, onthemoon said:

 

They asked for the WP, but we don't know what would happen if you say you have retired in the meantime. After all, the process is taking very long. Is there a regulation stating that you have to have a WP during the whole process, including oath and finally picking up the result? Or until when? I would hope the regulation - when scrutinised - should say that you have to have one at time of application.

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Yes its a regulation, its mentioned in the Nationality that the Candidate "must have an occupation"

 

 

Summary here -

 

Under a 2008 amendment, males married to Thai females are now exempted from the requirement to have permanent residence and knowledge of Thai but not from the requirement to have an occupation in Thailand. In order to qualify for the exemption, men with Thai wives must have been legally married for 3 years (1 year if they have a child together).

In addition to the qualifications specified in the Act, current ministerial guidelines require the following. You must show evidence that you have a job in Thailand paying a salary of at least 80,000 baht a month (40,000 if married to a Thai) along with tax receipts going back 3 complete calendar years. You need to present a valid work permit and originals or copies of expired work permits, if you have changed jobs within the period. You should be in a house registration book (blue TR14, if a permanent resident, otherwise a yellow TR13). 

[onthemoon]

  On 9/17/2024 at 12:16 PM, DrJoy said:

Yes its a regulation, its mentioned in the Nationality that the Candidate "must have an occupation"

 

 

Summary here -

 

Under a 2008 amendment, males married to Thai females are now exempted from the requirement to have permanent residence and knowledge of Thai but not from the requirement to have an occupation in Thailand. In order to qualify for the exemption, men with Thai wives must have been legally married for 3 years (1 year if they have a child together).

In addition to the qualifications specified in the Act, current ministerial guidelines require the following. You must show evidence that you have a job in Thailand paying a salary of at least 80,000 baht a month (40,000 if married to a Thai) along with tax receipts going back 3 complete calendar years. You need to present a valid work permit and originals or copies of expired work permits, if you have changed jobs within the period. You should be in a house registration book (blue TR14, if a permanent resident, otherwise a yellow TR13). 

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I have no doubt about that, I'd be interested to see the original, so I can check whether this applies at time of application or through the whole process until citizenship is granted.

[Lacrimas]

if it takes 10 years to be granted citizenship and I lose my job in the meanwhile my application goes up in smoke? bummer

[onthemoon]

  On 9/18/2024 at 8:09 AM, Lacrimas said:

if it takes 10 years to be granted citizenship and I lose my job in the meanwhile my application goes up in smoke? bummer

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To find that out is why I am trying to find the original wording in Thai, not a summary in English.

[Arun Mai]

I do not have the original Thai language text, so I am unable to oblige you in that regard.  The cynic in me can't help but suspect that whatever it does say in Thai it is likely to be ambiguous leaving much to interpretation.  I may be pleasantly surprised on this occasion, but I will reserve judgement.

[yankee99]

  On 9/18/2024 at 8:09 AM, Lacrimas said:

if it takes 10 years to be granted citizenship and I lose my job in the meanwhile my application goes up in smoke? bummer

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it can be a lot quicker than 10 years to be granted citizenship 

[FlyingThai]

  On 9/11/2024 at 1:46 PM, qualtrough said:

I am mystified at the people who apparently live here long term and for whatever reason can't find  any benefit to obtaining citizenship. I suspect it is due to  either lack of imagination, sour grapes, or a combination of the two.

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I think for many if not most it's the problem that you would have to surrender your current citizenship as dual citizenship is not permitted in a vast amount of countries unless obtained by birth.

 

There are practical benefits, but they are limited depending on your financial situation. As is, people who have very little money it's rather useless because buying property is probably not in the cards. If you have a lot of money then you get most of what you want anyway unless you insist on having property in your name.

 

Some people I know did it for fun as a pet project.

[Smokin Joe]

Unsure of what I posted was correct.

[Arkady]

  On 9/17/2024 at 10:15 AM, onthemoon said:

 

They asked for the WP, but we don't know what would happen if you say you have retired in the meantime. After all, the process is taking very long. Is there a regulation stating that you have to have a WP during the whole process, including oath and finally picking up the result? Or until when? I would hope the regulation - when scrutinised - should say that you have to have one at time of application.

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If you go to the interview and tell them, or they somehow find out, that you have retired since you applied, that will be the end of your citizenship application.  It would also be the end, if they found out you had been unemployed for a bit, since you applied, and were back in work but with a gap in your WP. I know this for a fact because I had the experience of sitting down at the MOI with the head of the nationality section as she thumbed through my old and new WPs to check there was no gap. When she had finished, she said, "I am so glad that was all in order, Khun Arkady, because, if I had found a discrepancy, I would have regretfully had to reject your application."

 

The problem is that the Act requires you to have an occupation and they interpret this as an ongoing requirement until your approval is published in the RG.  However, there are unlikely to be checks after the interview, Even at the oath swearing SB has not historically been strict on WPs, although they do ask for copies and maybe the original.   In that kind of situation best to say the WP is with your HR dept because the are changing the name of the company (actually happened to me) or something.

 

The reason SB give for the strictness over remaining in employment is because the requirement for an occupation is in the Nationality Act. Yes the length of time you have to wait for an interview these days makes it seem unfair but this is Thailand and it looks like they are getting stricter in enforcing this than in the past. 

[Arkady]

  On 9/18/2024 at 1:49 AM, onthemoon said:

 

I have no doubt about that, I'd be interested to see the original, so I can check whether this applies at time of application or through the whole process until citizenship is granted.

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When I was applying SB showed me a Korean guy's naturalisation certificate that was about to be presented and I asked how it took.  She had a quick look in the file and said "11 years" with some embarrassment.

[saakura]

  On 9/18/2024 at 12:41 PM, Arkady said:

 In that kind of situation best to say the WP is with your HR dept because they are changing the name of the company (actually happened to me) or something.

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Do some people still have paper booklets for WP? I have only a digital WP on my mobile since (I think) 2017!

 

PS: Sorry, I am only quoting a few lines from the original post.

[DrJoy]

  On 9/18/2024 at 3:01 PM, saakura said:

I have only a digital WP on my mobile since (

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That is not a problem, just hold onto your WP

[DrJoy]

  On 9/18/2024 at 12:41 PM, Arkady said:

The problem is that the Act requires you to have an occupation and they interpret this as an ongoing requirement until your approval is published in the RG

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@onthemoon wants the real Thai nationality act in Thai language

[onthemoon]

  On 9/18/2024 at 12:41 PM, Arkady said:

 

 

If you go to the interview and tell them, or they somehow find out, that you have retired since you applied, that will be the end of your citizenship application.  It would also be the end, if they found out you had been unemployed for a bit, since you applied, and were back in work but with a gap in your WP. I know this for a fact because I had the experience of sitting down at the MOI with the head of the nationality section as she thumbed through my old and new WPs to check there was no gap. When she had finished, she said, "I am so glad that was all in order, Khun Arkady, because, if I had found a discrepancy, I would have regretfully had to reject your application."

 

The problem is that the Act requires you to have an occupation and they interpret this as an ongoing requirement until your approval is published in the RG.  However, there are unlikely to be checks after the interview, Even at the oath swearing SB has not historically been strict on WPs, although they do ask for copies and maybe the original.   In that kind of situation best to say the WP is with your HR dept because the are changing the name of the company (actually happened to me) or something.

 

The reason SB give for the strictness over remaining in employment is because the requirement for an occupation is in the Nationality Act. Yes the length of time you have to wait for an interview these days makes it seem unfair but this is Thailand and it looks like they are getting stricter in enforcing this than in the past. 

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Oh, I see. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[onthemoon]

  On 9/18/2024 at 3:25 PM, DrJoy said:

@onthemoon wants the real Thai nationality act in Thai language

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It would be great to read it, as I have seen that the practice of government officials is often their interpretation and not what the law actually says. I hope I won't need to insist (I still have a few years until retirement), but I would like to know what the legal situation is.

[onthemoon]

  On 9/18/2024 at 3:01 PM, saakura said:

Do some people still have paper booklets for WP? I have only a digital WP on my mobile since (I think) 2017!

 

PS: Sorry, I am only quoting a few lines from the original post.

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I have a book, never had a digital WP. I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer the book. 😉