Bad news from Seychelles, world most vaccinated country

[cclub75]

World’s Most-Vaccinated Nation Activates Curbs as Cases Rise

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-04/world-s-most-vaccinated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge

 

Why it's a bad news ?

 

Because Seychelles uses... Sinovac.

 

Chili and Uruguay (same : high vaccination and cases going up again)... Sinovac.

 

And... Thailand ? Sinovac (mainly, to this date).

 

Is there a pattern here ?

 

And India ? Covishield (AstraZeneca) and Covaxin (local).

[Brierley]

"Of those cases, 84% are Seychellois and the rest are foreigners, Daniel Lucey, Clinical Professor of Medicine at Dartmouth Geisel School of Medicine, said in a blog post. Just under two thirds of those are either unvaccinated or have only had one dose, and the rest have had two doses, he said".

 

This is the real problem and it's a problem that's in store for us here once the local population begins to be inoculated:

 

"Officials at the press conference gave little detail on what could be behind the infection surge other than to say people were taking fewer precautions against the virus than before and the surge may be due to celebrations after Easter".

[friendofthai]

Vaccinating with British AstraZeneca (produced in India) is the main reason for all of the problems. This vaccine only prevents severe symptoms. It does not stop the spread of the disease.
When they vaccinate everyone with Sinovac - the result will be exactly the same as in China - No COVID at all.

Edited May 6, 2021 by friendofthai

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Vaccinating with British AstraZeneca (produced in India) is the main reason for all of the problems. This vaccine only prevents severe symptoms. It does not stop the spread of the disease.
When they vaccinate everyone with Sinovac - the result will be exactly the same as in China - No COVID at all.

Which variant did they have in China, the original patent?

[cclub75]

1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

When they vaccinate everyone with Sinovac - the result will be exactly the same as in China - No COVID at all.

 

First, China is very slow. To this day, only 285 millions doses... for a total population of 1,4 billion.

 

The big country that is "at war" with Covid (Xi Jinping)... that can build huge hospitals in a few days... doesn't seem to be in a hurry to vaccine all its population.

 

Why ? We were told that this pandemic was terrifying, horrible, and that vaccines were the only solution to survive as a species... Isnt'it ? ????

 

China, the rich and powerfull country.... the factory of the world... the country that totally controls its citizen... this country would be unable to vaccine in a jiffy all its population ?

 

Chinese are expert in : "do as I say, not as i do"...

 

Even though they have... now 4 local vaccines (of course Pfizer, Astra, Moderna etc... are persona non grata in China).

 

Second, look at Chili and Uruguay, large vaccination campaigns... and cases/deaths are going up again.

 

They all use Sinovac.

 

[cclub75]

Correction : Seychelles uses 60 % Sinovac and 40 % AstraZeneca, made in India (source Bloomberg).

[KC 71]

????

[Kiujunn]

Seychelles: 

incidence extremely high, over 500 new cases per week per 100000 inhabitants. That may be world's highest. No signs of getting better.

 

World's highest vaccination rate. Vaccination 60% Sinopharm (not Sinovac), 40% AZ. Sinopharm is from the Chinese government and has a better reputation than private Sinovac. Similar kind of vaccine.

 

Very worrying.

 

 

Chile: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56731801

Very high vaccination rate, in the 30s/40s, but way not enough for herd immunity. Almost exclusively Sinovac.

Too early loosening of restrictions.

High incidence, 100-200, that's considered normal in Europe. The last couple of days going down.

Worrying, sure.

 

Uruguay:

Late start of vaccination (March),  but fast progress (in the 20s).

Mostly Sinovac, in the beginning only Sinovac.

Had the highest incidence (>700) in the world for a while, last month. Since then,  gone down to levels as sometimes seen in Europe.

Some think May will show whether vaccine conquers the disease in Uruguay.

 

So, maybe Gao <deleted> (= George Gao, the eminent Chinese virologist) was right to say "our vaccines are weak, we need others"

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Kiujunn

[richard_smith237]

The vaccination stops / limits symptoms. It doesn’t prevent exposure.

 

Thus: a vaccinated person exposed to SARS-CoV-2 is simply more likely to the the same as an asymptomatic person. 

 

With fewer (no) symptoms and a far lower viral load the risk of transmission is vastly reduced. 

 

That it: People who have been vaccinated can and will still test positive for SARS-CoV-2... it can with with us all the time but no longer be a major issue. 

 

 

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

What you write are lies, and you know it.

Paid Chinese propaganda.

Disgusting.

If you truly believe what you say, then come up with verifiable links and facts that are acceptable with reputable media worldwide.

 

If you cannot provide links and facts then perhaps you are wrong.

[gearbox]

There is no meaningful data to draw any big conclusions.

 

Seychelles vaccinated with 60% Sinopharm and 40% AZ.  Although the South African variant is present there, there is not enough data about which vaccine and which covid variant caused the "breakthrough". 

 

Sinopharm is the main vaccine for UAE, apparently they are getting good results there:

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/health/coronavirus-sinopharm-vaccine-more-than-90-per-cent-effective-at-preventing-hospitalisation-abu-dhabi-study-says-1.1206413

 

 

[cclub75]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

There is no meaningful data to draw any big conclusions.

 

 

I beg to differ.

 

There is a first conclusion, hard as a diamond : those who believe that "God Vaccine Will Save Us from Covid" are... slightly delusional. ????

 

Furthermore, Pfizer and other labs are working on "boosters", "2nd generation" whatever they want to call those products.

 

And they sign deals for that matter with countries (Israel, Canada for procurement until 2024, source).

 

And the CEOs of those companies are very clear since several months : more injections will be necessary. One per year (Pfizer, but Johnson&Johnson as well, source CNBC)

 

In the UK , a third jab is already decided for people over 50 years old. Before winter (source DailyMail).

 

This is very real. It's happening.

 

Everytime a new mutant will show up... another dose ? Another injection ?

 

It could be a never ending game. A mad game.

 

Now try to place this situation... within the context of Thailand... ????

 

Bon courage !

[Kiujunn]

30 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

 

I beg to differ.

 

There is a first conclusion, hard as a diamond : those who believe that "God Vaccine Will Save Us from Covid" are... slightly delusional. ????

 

Furthermore, Pfizer and other labs are working on "boosters", "2nd generation" whatever they want to call those products.

 

And they sign deals for that matter with countries (Israel, Canada for procurement until 2024, source).

 

And the CEOs of those companies are very clear since several months : more injections will be necessary. One per year (Pfizer, but Johnson&Johnson as well, source CNBC)

 

In the UK , a third jab is already decided for people over 50 years old. Before winter (source DailyMail).

 

This is very real. It's happening.

 

Everytime a new mutant will show up... another dose ? Another injection ?

 

It could be a never ending game. A mad game.

 

Now try to place this situation... within the context of Thailand... ????

 

Bon courage !

I realized this when planning to fly home to get vaccinated, as it is quite clear I won't get a vaccine in Thailand:

 

Possibly some quarantine (rules change weekly). Possibly 2 weeks bureaucracy to get vaccination. 

Wait for second injection,  2-12 weeks.

Wait 2 more weeks until I am protected from the vaccine. 

Fly back to Thailand,  2 more weeks quarantine. 

 

By then,  it's time to plan the trip home for booster injection, scheduled for autumn. Once, maybe twice a year.

 

I might exchange my condo for a private plane.

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

I beg to differ.

 

There is a first conclusion, hard as a diamond : those who believe that "God Vaccine Will Save Us from Covid" are... slightly delusional. ????

 

Furthermore, Pfizer and other labs are working on "boosters", "2nd generation" whatever they want to call those products.

 

And they sign deals for that matter with countries (Israel, Canada for procurement until 2024, source).

 

And the CEOs of those companies are very clear since several months : more injections will be necessary. One per year (Pfizer, but Johnson&Johnson as well, source CNBC)

 

In the UK , a third jab is already decided for people over 50 years old. Before winter (source DailyMail).

 

This is very real. It's happening.

 

Everytime a new mutant will show up... another dose ? Another injection ?

 

It could be a never ending game. A mad game.

 

Now try to place this situation... within the context of Thailand... ????

 

Bon courage !

 

That was quite obvious well before the Seychelles news.  New variants will keep coming up until there is significant surplus of vaccines worldwide. Even then the vaccination policy is a matter of each country, so some countries may keep producing new variants for a while.

 

However COVID is not HIV, at some points the vaccines will catch up with it.

 

We all want our pre covid way of life back, but it is what it is for the time being.

[2009]

12 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

First, China is very slow. To this day, only 285 millions doses... for a total population of 1,4 billion.

 

The big country that is "at war" with Covid (Xi Jinping)... that can build huge hospitals in a few days... doesn't seem to be in a hurry to vaccine all its population.

 

Why ? We were told that this pandemic was terrifying, horrible, and that vaccines were the only solution to survive as a species... Isnt'it ? ????

 

China, the rich and powerfull country.... the factory of the world... the country that totally controls its citizen... this country would be unable to vaccine in a jiffy all its population ?

 

Chinese are expert in : "do as I say, not as i do"...

 

Even though they have... now 4 local vaccines (of course Pfizer, Astra, Moderna etc... are persona non grata in China).

 

Second, look at Chili and Uruguay, large vaccination campaigns... and cases/deaths are going up again.

 

They all use Sinovac.

 

 

Are the cases going up or the deaths?

 

I thought with any vaccine, even if you got the virus again, it would just be a mild infection (like the flu) and not one that would cause as many deaths (as covid does for the unvaccinated)

[Scott]

Even with a large number of cases, is the death rate higher or lower than would be expected?   Is the vaccine helping to prevent serious illness and death?

[tgw]

these surges might just be caused by people celebrating before the fat lady is done singing.

[chessman]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

Even with a large number of cases, is the death rate higher or lower than would be expected?   Is the vaccine helping to prevent serious illness and death?

Very few deaths in the Seychelles, they’ve never had a day with more than 2 deaths. But there is a lag between cases and deaths so I guess we’ll find out in a few weeks if this increase in cases leads to deaths.

[rabas]

The Seychelles has a higher vaccination rate than Israel.  69% to 62%.

 

Israel's outbreak reached 8,400 cases/day in mid January.  Now, after their Pfizer vaccine program, cases/day is near zero. They have stopped a raging infection. It's gone.

 

The Seychelles cases/day has been steadily rising since January 5 and has shot up in the last many days. Their death rate has been rising steadily.  They started from near zero in December.

 

If Pfizer is an example of a vaccine that works, then Sinovac is an example of one that does not work very well.  I would not expect a lot from it.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/israel

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/seychelles

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by rabas

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.  

 

[Jeffr2]

9 hours ago, tgw said:

these surges might just be caused by people celebrating before the fat lady is done singing.

Spot on.  They let their guard down too soon.  This virus will be with us for many years to come, in many different forums.  We'll be getting jabs for this for a long time.  Just like the yearly flu today.

[mjakob007]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:03 AM, friendofthai said:

Vaccinating with British AstraZeneca (produced in India) is the main reason for all of the problems. This vaccine only prevents severe symptoms. It does not stop the spread of the disease.
When they vaccinate everyone with Sinovac - the result will be exactly the same as in China - No COVID at all.

 

India's challege was

- lack of speed in inoculation

- mass gathering for regional elections & religious festivals leading to outbreak as govt trying to make political gains.

 

Covid infection to vaccinated population has been negligible in India.

[millymoopoo]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:03 AM, friendofthai said:

This vaccine only prevents severe symptoms. It does not stop the spread of the disease.

Correct.!

None of the vaccines prevent infection, they all just reduce the symptoms and shorten the duration of the infection by boosting (or preparing) your immune system.

The western vaccines seem to be better at doing this:

Pfizer 95%
Moderna 95%

Astra Zenneca 87%

Johnson & Johnson 67%

Sinovac 37% to 62% depending on the clinical trial (dubious)

Sputnik 97% claimed, but also dubious as only trialled on small Russian base, and no tests on variants.

As Seychelles uses Sinovac it could go a long way in explaining the surge in cases.

Something for Thais to look forward to.!

[elgenon]

23 hours ago, cclub75 said:

 

First, China is very slow. To this day, only 285 millions doses... for a total population of 1,4 billion.

 

The big country that is "at war" with Covid (Xi Jinping)... that can build huge hospitals in a few days... doesn't seem to be in a hurry to vaccine all its population.

 

Why ? We were told that this pandemic was terrifying, horrible, and that vaccines were the only solution to survive as a species... Isnt'it ? ????

 

China, the rich and powerfull country.... the factory of the world... the country that totally controls its citizen... this country would be unable to vaccine in a jiffy all its population ?

 

Chinese are expert in : "do as I say, not as i do"...

 

Even though they have... now 4 local vaccines (of course Pfizer, Astra, Moderna etc... are persona non grata in China).

 

Second, look at Chili and Uruguay, large vaccination campaigns... and cases/deaths are going up again.

 

They all use Sinovac.

 

How does one know what is the truth about anything happening in China? They report what sounds good.

[Eric Loh]

Is today 'Conspiracy Day'. 

[gearbox]

23 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Correct.!

None of the vaccines prevent infection, they all just reduce the symptoms and shorten the duration of the infection by boosting (or preparing) your immune system.

The western vaccines seem to be better at doing this:

Pfizer 95%
Moderna 95%

Astra Zenneca 87%

Johnson & Johnson 67%

Sinovac 37% to 62% depending on the clinical trial (dubious)

Sputnik 97% claimed, but also dubious as only trialled on small Russian base, and no tests on variants.

As Seychelles uses Sinovac it could go a long way in explaining the surge in cases.

Something for Thais to look forward to.!

 

It was mentioned a few times already that Seychelles don't use Sinovac at all. 

 

And the Sinovac ranges according to all trials published are 49-91%,  where are your numbers coming from?  And why dubious? They did trials and have data from at least a few countries (not China), do you think all these countries conspired together to produce better numbers?

[MrJ2U]

China has admitted to disappointing results.  Anutin and pryut need to stop using this inferior vaccine, basically useless.  Astrveneca isn't much good against variants of the virus.  Moderna looks best, hopefully get it from a private hospital.

 

 

Issan workers at my house said there not getting the "China mans poison".  Interesting, first time I have heard any debate up here in Issan.

[MrJ2U]

China's top disease control official has said the efficacy of the country's Covid vaccines is low, in a rare admission of weakness.

In a press conference, Gao <deleted> added that China was considering mixing vaccines as a way of boosting efficacy.

China has developed four different vaccines approved for public use, though some trials abroad had suggested efficacy as low as 50%.

 

BBC News

[gearbox]

3 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

China's top disease control official has said the efficacy of the country's Covid vaccines is low, in a rare admission of weakness.

In a press conference, Gao <deleted> added that China was considering mixing vaccines as a way of boosting efficacy.

China has developed four different vaccines approved for public use, though some trials abroad had suggested efficacy as low as 50%.

 

BBC News

Gao <deleted>, head of the Chinese Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, on Saturday said at a conference the current vaccines "don't have very high rates of protection".

 

Where do you see "low" in the sentence above?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56713663

[Aomelia]

17 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

It was mentioned a few times already that Seychelles don't use Sinovac at all. 

 

And the Sinovac ranges according to all trials published are 49-91%,  where are your numbers coming from?  And why dubious? They did trials and have data from at least a few countries (not China), do you think all these countries conspired together to produce better numbers?

With this numbers your quoting from a Chinese news source Ridiculous