School says they cant give me a work permit

[bwpage3]

1 hour ago, Mrgone87 said:

The contract stated a paid position, 25-30 hours a week. The admin in WP department said they had a letter  for me, she was a bit unclear if, she could not get me a permit, or did not know how to apply for one in this scenario. I will go in tomorrow and speak with her in person.

Seriously, how in the world do you expect to support a wife and new born on 25 - 30 hours a week salary?

 

Before having a child, did you ever think about this?

 

You want your kid growing up with nothing?

 

25 to 30 hours a week is nothing. No house, no car, no good education, nothing.

 

You make those decisions for yourself and your family and expect to teach other's kids?

 

Work permit or not, probably 100% not because you have no qualifications; if you love your family, you better find a better plan.

 

Probably have no money to support bringing them to your own country either.

 

Getting deported with no return in not going to help anyone either.

 

Sorry, the work permit is the least of your problems.

 

Does your wife want to be poor the rest of her life?

 

 

[2 is 1]

Forget it! Every school director can hire you , if come problem its your problem! Every school have money (donate or some other extra). They get from student familys. Like cleaner in goeverment school they get paid from school not from goverment! You really dont want picture in FB here is our E teacher from Nothingham!

[Ventenio]

3 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Sorry, the work permit is the least of your problems.

 

Does your wife want to be poor the rest of her life?

 

Number 1, this is a personal attack without any proof.  I'm not mad at you....lol....

 

I've seen many "poor" Americans find hundreds of thousands from inheritance, investments, selling assets, retirement plans, etc.....that came due later in life.  Maybe his sister has 10 million USD and she told him she'll pay for the kid's education.  A million possible scenarios.  

 

If the OP Is in his 20's with no assets or future payouts coming......well, it's his life and it can certainly work out.  Online classes, get a real degree, go to America with his family, land a good job.....it's really none of my concern.

 

because the title is "work permit," I'll leave it at that.  Well, one more thing....had a rich guy crash his motorbike, paralyzed for life......i could have yelled at him for riding a bike in Thailand....but I didn't.   life happens

[CALSinCM]

Your are a fool if you pursue this one-side teaching position.  You my friend will assume all of the risk for working without a work permit.  Granted the laws on the books provide for a small fine for the employer which they will never be required to pay.  If caught working without a permit, it will be you who is dragged in front of the Thai media by the immigration police and called everything but a human being, it will be you who is substantially fined, it will be you who is imprisoned as a criminal, and it will be you who is deported for your crimes.  The school's administration will hardly notice you're gone.

They do not obtain a work permit for you because they are lazy and they have absolutely no respect for you as a teacher or as a foreigner or as even a fellow human being.  You as a person mean nothing to them.  You are not Thai so your utility to them rates just above the leather on the bottoms of their shoes.  They do not care about your welfare in the least.  They simply wish to use you at the least inconvenience to themselves.  Obtaining a work permit will require a secretarial staff member to learn how to properly fill out and submit the documentation on your behalf.  But they don't want to.  They would rather put you at risk of facing criminal charges.  Why would you wish to work for people who have no interest in you other than to use you?
Working without a work permit is a criminal offense.  If busted you will be a criminal.  If you chose to ignore the warnings and get busted, don't return to this forum and whine.  It's completely your responsibility if you work and get caught.  
Just don't do it.  You've been warned.  Read and heed.

[Mrgone87]

Well, I made this account asking for an outside perspective, glad I got the full range of the responses. Please don't worry about my families finances, or my ability to find gainful employment in the US we have very little to worry about in that regards to both of those.  Honestly thank you all for your advice, I will talk it over with the Mrs and we will go from there. I really appreciate it.

[CALSinCM]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

I suspect your school is being dodgy because it is difficult for foreigners to apply for any jobs in Thailand. Probably if you apply for the WP, you won't get it.

I expect your school is being dodgy too.  Remember, if you get busted the downside for them is minimal to none.  For you it's a criminal offense.  There are a lot of dodgy schools out there.  They do not care about you. 
If you are unable to get a work permit than their contract is unenforceable. They can not bind you contractually to commit a crime.  And working without a work permit is a crime.
 

[Maha Sarakham]

I suspect prior posts are correct.  You are probably under the minimum requirements to attain an educators working permit based on not having a BA, which has been a requirement for years now.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Maha Sarakham

[CALSinCM]

1 hour ago, Mrgone87 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure. It's not like some shoddy establishment, when they interviewed me, my wife was there as well and they made it seem like they knew to speak with immigration and labor.

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This is not the way it works legally.  I honestly don't mean this in a bad way but you seem a bit ignorant and naive. You are being set up by the school to be used while you assume the entire risk of criminal charges should you be caught.  And they are outright lying to you about the risks.  The system is set up this way.  There is very little downside for employers who illegally employ teachers without the proper documents such as work permits.  Small fine for them if any sanction at all - huge problem for you if caught.  So they are manipulating your ignorance of the system to entice you to illegally work for them.  Consider the ethics of that for a moment.  You really want to work for people without ethics?
Slap on the hand for them; jail and deportation for you - Heck of a deal, huh? 
Welcome to Thailand.  It doesn't get any better than this.  I suggest packing up your wife and heading back to your own country where you can legally obtain employment.  I sure whatever country you're from will grant your wife permission to work in your country without any of the bureaucratic and illegal nonsense that goes on here. 
If you are young and don't have the qualifications to work here, this is going to be a difficult country to remain in.  And I'm sorry if I'm the one to burst your bubble of how living with a Thai wife in Thailand might be.  Very difficult unless you have the money to start your own business or have work qualifications.  That's just reality. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by CALSinCM

[PatchinExPat]

Thailand has rules.

Those rules are written to allow wealthy people in,

Thailand has a take care of Thailand first attitude.

They allow a lot of older people with no desire to 

compete in the workplace in who can show 

minimum amounts of cash, so they won't be a 

burden to Thailand.

They also allow needed workers with special skills.

The rules do slide a little from yr to yr but they keep 

the bottom line, they do not want someone who is 

going to compete with Thai people for jobs and they 

try to avoid allowing those who can not fully support their self 

with out depending on government services.

 

Now like anywhere folks try or do bend the rules.

It is not a good plan to count on staying here if 

you don't fit in the written rules, I don't understand 

why you would try.

Bottom line you can't build a good life , living on the 

edges of a system.

":Make a new plan Stan" go back where ever and get the BA

 or what ever is required to legal to stay here. 

Other wise every year, every job change, every day 

you are living a life you can lose in the blink of an eye.

 

You are about the 10,000th person to ask, how can I 

skirt the laws and live here, you are nothing new and 

not alone. 

Sorry, that is the way it is and it will stay that way.

 

[Disparate Dan]

Is it English that the OP wants to teach? Because his posts contain a long string of errors and I for one would not want him teaching my kids. Perhaps the school thinks the same thing?

[BenDeCosta]

I was always told that to get a work permit, I needed to have a 4-year degree. Didn't bother me because I have a 4-year masters degree.

 

I'm not saying you can't get a work permit without one, but it won't be legal, and you'll have to pay a lot. 

 

Most BAs are 3 year degrees so wouldn't qualify, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited May 20, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[pixelaoffy]

11 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

I was always told that to get a work permit, I needed to have a 4-year degree.

 

I'm not saying you can't get a work permit without one, but it won't be legal, and you'll have to pay a lot. 

 

Most BAs are 3 year degrees so wouldn't qualify, correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong! Need a work permit .how you get it doesn't matter 

[BenDeCosta]

1 minute ago, pixelaoffy said:

You're wrong! Need a work permit .how you get it doesn't matter 

 

So you can get a work permit in Thailand without a degree? Can you provide some details?

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

Is it a requirement for all foreign teachers to have a BA?

A teaching qualification for English Language through a university is generally a BA (and provides a teachers license), however if as I had a BSC(Hons) they could ask Krusepa, the Thai Teachers Council, for a letter of dispensation, but this will only work for a short period, they will require you to complete a set of exams which will allow you to apply for a teachers license in Thailand.

[ThailandRyan]

29 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

I was always told that to get a work permit, I needed to have a 4-year degree.

 

I'm not saying you can't get a work permit without one, but it won't be legal, and you'll have to pay a lot. 

 

Most BAs are 3 year degrees so wouldn't qualify, correct me if I'm wrong.

I have never heard of a 3 year BA, well yes some folks are able to cram 4 years into 3, but it is still a 4 year program before you get a degree, at least in the US it is. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[BenDeCosta]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I have never heard of a 3 year BA, well yes some folks are able to cram 4 years into 3, but it is still a 4 year program. 

 

Are you from the US? In the UK most BA and BSc degrees are 3 years unless you do a year in industry or whatever they call it.

 

Sorry I just saw that you put that you are from the US.

Edited May 20, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

29 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

I was always told that to get a work permit, I needed to have a 4-year degree.

 

I'm not saying you can't get a work permit without one, but it won't be legal, and you'll have to pay a lot. 

 

Most BAs are 3 year degrees so wouldn't qualify, correct me if I'm wrong.

I have never heard of a 3 year BA, well yes some folks are able to cram 4 years into 3, but it is still a 4 year program. 

 

In the UK all (pretty much all) degrees are 3 years. 

BA - Bachelor of Arts / BSc - Bachelor of Science 

 

They’re all 3 year courses. 

 

 

That said: If I wanted to become a teacher with my BA or BSc I would have to undertake and additional year of Study with a PGCE (Post Graduate Certificate of Education).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by richard_smith237

[blackcab]

42 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

So you can get a work permit in Thailand without a degree? Can you provide some details?

 

You can get a work permit for a non school-teaching teaching job without a degree.

 

The Ministry of Labour will accept proof of suitable experience in lieu of a degree. It all depends on the circumstances.

 

If you have no degree and you want a work permit to manage a tiny coffee shop with minimum employees and you are earning a very low salary then perhaps not.

 

If you have no degree but you are a globally renowned entrepreneur who wants to build a mega factory and employ a thousand Thai workers then no problem at all.

 

These are two extreme examples. Most applications will be somewhere in the middle.

 

One real world example would be a hotel general manager. GMs older than about 50 will more than likely not have a degree. This is because back in the day most universities did not offer degrees in hotel management. Experience was gained on the job and promotion was based on merit and ability.

 

GMs like this manage some of the best hotels in the world. They will never go back to university and get a degree at this stage of their career as they would gain nothing and lose years of top tier income.

 

I'm not saying many people get a work permit (for a non school teaching job) based on experience alone, but it definitely happens.

[jaiyenyen]

Can I make a suggestion to the OP.

Go to your embassy in Bangkok. Ask to make a statutory declaration. On it, state all your qualifications, and where you were educated, plus any work experience you may have. Complete the declaration by saying that in your opinion, Your combination of qualifications and work experience is the equivalent of a modern day B.A.

It may be worth a try.

Show this to the school and see what they say. The rest of the paperwork for a WP is quite straightforward.

 

[Scott]

Some schools are simply not familiar with the process of getting a Work Permit.  It has little to do with the quality of the school and more to do with the administrative structure of the school.  If they do not have a designated person to do this, it's a steep learning curve.  

 

You can do the footwork to get a WP on your own, but you will need the registration documents and other paperwork including a contract and an outline of your responsibilities.

 

Without having a Bachelor's Degree, the school MAY BE  able to hire you as a Teaching Assistant or for some designated administrative role, but you will not be able to get a Teacher's License or Waiver.   You will not need  a license for a non-teaching job.   Now, the 'may be' is because in my experience, they have wanted assistants and admins to have a degree as well, but would give a WP for one year.   That was some time ago, and whether they would still do that, I don't know.  

Best of luck and keep us posted.  

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, jaiyenyen said:

Can I make a suggestion to the OP.

Go to your embassy in Bangkok. Ask to make a statutory declaration. On it, state all your qualifications, and where you were educated, plus any work experience you may have. Complete the declaration by saying that in your opinion, Your combination of qualifications and work experience is the equivalent of a modern day B.A.

It may be worth a try.

Show this to the school and see what they say. The rest of the paperwork for a WP is quite straightforward.

 

 

This will be a costly exercise and it won't get the OP anywhere. It is the Ministry of Labour who issue work permits and not the employer.

 

Section 1.7 of the application form for a work permit is provided for the applicant to list their work experience. All you have to do is list your experience in the space provided.

 

A statutory declaration from your Embassy is not necessary.

[bwpage3]

3 hours ago, Ventenio said:

 

Number 1, this is a personal attack without any proof.  I'm not mad at you....lol....

 

I've seen many "poor" Americans find hundreds of thousands from inheritance, investments, selling assets, retirement plans, etc.....that came due later in life.  Maybe his sister has 10 million USD and she told him she'll pay for the kid's education.  A million possible scenarios.  

 

If the OP Is in his 20's with no assets or future payouts coming......well, it's his life and it can certainly work out.  Online classes, get a real degree, go to America with his family, land a good job.....it's really none of my concern.

 

because the title is "work permit," I'll leave it at that.  Well, one more thing....had a rich guy crash his motorbike, paralyzed for life......i could have yelled at him for riding a bike in Thailand....but I didn't.   life happens

Ok I will play along.

 

Out of the 330,000,000 people in America, exactly HOW MANY, as you claim, came into inheritance that you know personally?

 

Then do the math.

 

He has a better chance to win the lottery.

[Scouse123]

12 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Probably that school is not as reputable as you think.

 

I was once asked during the interview if it is alright if the school doesn't apply for a work permit for me which shocked me; and this was a well-established school in the town center.

 

I read many times that applying for work permits for foreigners is a nightmare with countless documentation  so your school might want to avoid doing that.

 

There are foreign teachers who teach illegally in Thailand but it's not worth the risk.

 

And it won't be the school staff or administrator who gave him bad or incorrect advice that gets deported.

[pixelaoffy]

11 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

So you can get a work permit in Thailand without a degree? Can you provide some details?

Provide details?   a foreigner needs a WP to work in Thailand ..that's all need to know 

[Preacher]

To work you need a work permit. Working without a work permit is punishable by jail of up to 5 years. (Unlikely, but you will be expelled). To work as a teacher you need a teaching license or a waiver thereof, without it you can go to jail for 1 year. The work permit requires a teaching license (or waiver) and the waiver requires college degree. 

A lecturer doesn't need a WP for guest lecture, in OP's case the WP is needed. he is not a guest lecturer. As Scott said, a teaching assistence is possible but very difficult and will largelij depend on the local labour office.

 

As both immigration and the labour office, and even the tax office, are more active in checking if foreign teachers have the right documentation working without a WP is not advisable.

[ChipButty]

The way I see it Farang are second class citizens as teachers in Thailand, the other day someone posted at some Uni where they vaccinated all the Thai teachers but not the Farang, anyway good luck

[ThLT]

Like others have said, without a degree, you can't legally get a WP and work as a teacher. If you get caught (even if you have a WP as a "TA"), you risk deportation and being blacklisted from returning to Thailand.

 

Why not find a private language school (no degree needed), or a corporate job (no degree needed for WP as well)?

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by ThLT

[Neeranam]

Just work. If the school is half decent, they will have the DoL in their pockets. This is the way it works here.  In over 25 years working here as I teacher, I never saw any teacher being charged for not having a WP. 

[EricTh]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Just work. If the school is half decent, they will have the DoL in their pockets. This is the way it works here.  In over 25 years working here as I teacher, I never saw any teacher being charged for not having a WP. 

 

What is DOL? So you are saying that many teachers are working without a work permit? What're the reasons?

 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

What is DOL? So you are saying that many teachers are working without a work permit? What're the reasons?

 

Dept of Labour

 

Mostly no degree. Sometimes no visa !