Covid lockdowns Globally

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

As a scientist, I have to say that hard lockdowns work to halt the spread of any infectious disease, but not the half-hearted, 'just-for-show' lockdowns in many European countries, where so many of the population ignored the rules.

 

Here in Laos, we had a hard lockdown last year when the virus first appeared in China.  Stay at home for 1 month, only allowed out one time per day to buy food.  That lockdown worked and the virus disappeared from the country.

 

Then this year, illegal crossings from Thailand to Laos brought back the virus.  Into another hard lockdown, with barriers set up on roads to stop people leaving their villages.  That lockdown worked again, and the virus is all but gone, except for infections brought by citizens returning from overseas.

 

Fortunately, vaccinations have been well underway for months, with donated vaccines from Covax, Russia, China etc.  Laos has porous borders, and will never stop this infection being brought into the country from overseas.  Hence the urgency to vaccinate the population, especially those most at risk.

 

Personally, I fully support physical beatings by police of those who break the mask-on, social distancing etc rules, just as is done in Cambodia.  You can't teach 'stupid', but a bit of pain seems to get the message across ????

 

 

Wow, what part of Laos had a "hard lockdown" last year?  My wife and son were stuck in their village near Pakse from March to September last year and there was no lockdown in the village (and no Covid either).  The only thing locked down was the border preventing them coming home to Thailand!

[wmlc]

Ridiculous. I see the US is almost back to normal. In some cities in some states, people are walking around with no masks, bars are open and it is normal. Your one off old and outdated comment is irrelevant.  

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Ridiculous. I see the US is almost back to normal. In some cities in some states, people are walking around with no masks, bars are open and it is normal. Your one off old and outdated comment is irrelevant.  

Which comment are you referring to?   It's best to quote it, to make it clear.

[runamok27]

The biggest issue with lockdowns is that it forces people indoors where this virus can spread like wildfire. You can clearly see that in the U.S. where certain demographics and their families bore the brunt of the illnesses and deaths because they had family members who were essential workers. For those people, the lockdowns were a horrible idea. Although really, the issue was the U.S. considered way too many people to be essential workers so there were way too many vectors to allow the spread of the virus. 

 

What's going to be interesting is seeing every single country on earth completely lock their country down the next time this happens. As soon as a strange virus appears, there won't be any hesitating, everything will close. If you are overseas, you won't be coming back any time soon. The overreaction by every government will be astounding. The world will come to a complete stop. 

[James105]

1 hour ago, Fromas said:

 

There are knock-on consequences of lockdowns, some good, some bad. Good example: if lockdowns lead to dips in covid infections and death, the same could be said of flu deaths. Bad example: more stress, more suicide.

 

It's complicated!

 

You need to look at historical data, to investigate the effect on the RATE of infection. To use a physical example: Harry and Sally both got cut in a car crash. Harry used a tourniquet, but not Sally. Both bled the same amount of blood. Could you say that the tourniquet was useless for Harry? You couldn't unless you review the whole period of time. Perhaps Harry bled very badly and was saved by the tourniquet. Perhaps Harry applied the tourniquet wrongly and bled more (possible!). You have to review the historical data.

 

Incidentally, you mention FL had no lockdown. They did tighten the screws (not the same period as CA). Have a look at that too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A strange analogy.    A tourniquet is a scientific fact.   If you apply the same tourniquet the same way then you will stop the flow of blood.   It is something you can repeat on a million people and each and every time you reduce the flow of blood.     So why can the same not be said of lockdowns?  Lockdowns have become a religion where its believers will credit them for reduction in spread even where there is no scientific evidence that they actually do, and continuously ignore the fact that when comparing states that lockdown vs ones that did not there is no difference.   If you accept as fact that lockdowns kill, then are you doing more harm than good?   If lockdowns were a drug, would they ever get approved due the amount of side effects they have, especially if you compare the results to those that were not given the lockdown drug and there was no significant difference to what they were trying to cure?  

 

The reality is that "lockdowns" only target areas that were not significant in the spread of the virus anyway as it is impossible to close down essential services.    I think I saw stats that said the hospitality industry in the UK was responsible for only 3% of the infections, yet is the first thing to be shut down and the last thing to reopen.    They also do not account for human behaviour and the fact that the virus is not as scary as it was initially.    When people under 40 know that there is no greater chance of dying from covid than being struck by lightening, do they isolate themselves from everyone they know or do they still socialise?    If they do socialise, where do they do it?   In the great outdoors where they can be caught by police but there is virtually zero chance of passing the virus if they have it - or cramped together in small condo rooms with the windows closed with an extremely high chance of spreading the virus if they have it?    

 

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Chosenfew said:

It’s very simple:

Fat, old and unhealthy people, hide in your house.

Everyone else, mask up and go about your business.

Look at California and Florida or Sweden and Denmark… one locked down and the other didn’t, no statistical difference.

No statistical difference between Sweden and Denmark? You sure about that?

[placeholder]

20 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Of course the infection rate itself is merely a snapshot in time, nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes, the majority of EU countries which have a HIGHER number of deaths per head than Sweden did lock down hard, you can look up the dates. Sweden did not for a long time and still had less deaths per head than those countries that did lock down, and continues to have less deaths per head.

As epidemiologist have repeatedly pointed out, Sweden has the highest percentage of households with single occupants in the world. That helps to mitigate the rate of infection. Despite that, the countries most similar to Sweden, and with whom it shared borders, performed so much better.

[placeholder]

21 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

You're contradicting yourself of course. If the Wuhan lockdown had been a success, and not the total debacle that it turned out to be, with 5 million Wuhan residents leaving before the lockdown was put in place and thus spreading the virus, there would have been no need for continous lockdowns because the Wuhan lockdown would have been such a success and stopped the pandemic, right? You can't have it both ways and say on the one hand "Ah Wuhan lockdown stopped the pandemic" but on the other "ermmm, yes further lockdowns were needed to stop the pandemic". Do you not see the inherent contradiction?

 

By your ridiculous criterion of 100%, yes it failed. But by any rational evaluation, the sharp and continued steep cut in rate is obvously proof of the lockdown's success.

[Fromas]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

So why can the same not be said of lockdowns?

 

Because all lockdowns are not the same.

 

Since you discuss "reality" without data, since you are not inquiring but preaching a religion of denial, our discussion ends here.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Fromas

[Fromas]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

By your ridiculous criterion of 100%, yes it failed.

 

That's how the anti-vax and anti-science crowd want to roll. Science can't save you, they claim. Of course!

 

 

[Fromas]

tomwoods.com  -  Master the freedom philosophy and hone your debating skills, Monday through Friday!

 

Here's one for the thinking religionists out there. Lockdowns (or restrictive measures) track against new infections, not number of deaths (which lag infections).
 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Fromas

[Captain Monday]

14 hours ago, wmlc said:

Ridiculous. I see the US is almost back to normal. In some cities in some states, people are walking around with no masks, bars are open and it is normal. Your one off old and outdated comment is irrelevant.  

 

 

True , almost no restrictions as soon as the CDC made their curious announcement the unvaccinated liars, dropped their masks. Nobody is allowed to ask.  

 

Back to "normal" after near 600k deaths. Cases just start trend below 20,000 per day May 29. For June 1, the 7 day death average is 584 !. Vaccine refusnik level is too high. Mandating electronic vaccination passports for all public facilities is needed. Worried it will get worse again the fall hope we don't go back into closures and restrictions. The pandemic now  is all about perception of what is acceptable. Asian countries seem determined to keep economies in straightjacket and borders constricted over low levels of manageable cases. There was never a proper lockdown in Continental US, thus mass death was a certainty.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov

Edited June 5, 2021 by Captain Monday

[atpeace]

5 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

 

 

True , almost no restrictions as soon as the CDC made their curious announcement the unvaccinated liars, dropped their masks. Nobody is allowed to ask.  

 

Back to "normal" after near 600k deaths. Cases just start trend below 20,000 per day May 29. For June 1, the 7 day death average is 584 !. Vaccine refusnik level is too high. Mandating electronic vaccination passports for all public facilities is needed. Worried it will get worse again the fall hope we don't go back into closures and restrictions. The pandemic now  is all about perception of what is acceptable. Asian countries seem determined to keep economies in straightjacket and borders constricted over low levels of manageable cases. There was never a proper lockdown in Continental US, thus mass death was a certainty.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov

Think it was more of "taking it seriously" in Asia.  Lockdowns work and the tighter the better they work.  With that said, I think loose lockdowns were all that was needed.  The message is sent that this is serious and strict mask mandates help confirm this message.  Masks work and they also remind everyone not to partake in stupid activities.  MANY  Americans for example ( myself included ) did not initially take this pandemic seriously and many to this day still don't.  Containment was a lost cause the first 6-8 months.  

 

Looking back, amazing how fast Thailand reacted and put measures in place to limit the impact.  A brief semi-lockdown and people seemed to get it! Wear masks and keep your distance.  At the same time, Americans were running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  Messaging by authorities was all over the place.  

 

I'm a conservative and will probably vote conservative next election.  Sure nice though to have someone working towards a solution in lieu of huge ego telling the world how great he is...

[simon43]

21 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Wow, what part of Laos had a "hard lockdown" last year?  My wife and son were stuck in their village near Pakse from March to September last year and there was no lockdown in the village (and no Covid either).  The only thing locked down was the border preventing them coming home to Thailand!

Huh?  Are you living on another planet! ????  There was a nationwide lockdown in March 2020 - here's the first Google link that I found about this:

 

https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news-alerts/328526/laos-nationwide-lockdown-imposed-due-to-covid-19-march-30-update-4

 

Everyone was required to stay at home and only go out once per day for food/pharmacy etc.

 

Did you wife and village not know about this - or adhere to these rules?

[Jeffr2]

From a country that has a covid denier as a leader.  No lock downs, no masks.  Looks like they failed big time.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/28/americas/brazil-economy-covid-intl/index.html

 

Brazil's economy plummets in Covid's shadow

 

The Covid-19 crisis has claimed over 450,000 lives in Brazil, and wrecked the livelihoods of so many more. Brazilians are facing one of the worst economic recessions in the country's history. Millions remain unemployed, inflation is climbing, countless businesses are going under, and people are going hungry.

 

Since the arrival of Covid-19 in Brazil, the federal government has followed a policy of staunchly avoiding restrictions "at all costs," hoping to ride out the contagion of Covid-19 without drastic effects on economic activity.

 

On May 15, 2020, President Bolsonaro gave a press conference declaring that lockdown measures would be "a pathway to [economic] failure."

[James105]

15 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

From a country that has a covid denier as a leader.  No lock downs, no masks.  Looks like they failed big time.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/28/americas/brazil-economy-covid-intl/index.html

 

Brazil's economy plummets in Covid's shadow

 

The Covid-19 crisis has claimed over 450,000 lives in Brazil, and wrecked the livelihoods of so many more. Brazilians are facing one of the worst economic recessions in the country's history. Millions remain unemployed, inflation is climbing, countless businesses are going under, and people are going hungry.

 

Since the arrival of Covid-19 in Brazil, the federal government has followed a policy of staunchly avoiding restrictions "at all costs," hoping to ride out the contagion of Covid-19 without drastic effects on economic activity.

 

On May 15, 2020, President Bolsonaro gave a press conference declaring that lockdown measures would be "a pathway to [economic] failure."

 

Brazil has 2224 deaths per million, whereas Peru has 5688 deaths per million.   Peru's leader was not a "covid denier" and introduced lockdowns harder and faster than most other countries in the world.   Which country in your opinion has had a better outcome?   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[Mario666]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:02 PM, Pla nin said:

Sorry an estimated 500 million people were infected with Spanish Flu and 50 million people died world wide according to my limited research on google

 

Agree....Let it take it's course....Sure some will die (maybe me) but that would be a "Merciful Relief" from all this SH!!TE

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Mario666

[simon43]

1 minute ago, smoky said:

   I don't even know why I come here anymore, maybe just to get <deleted> off.

  

 

Well, with just 12 posts and clearly a Covid denier, you won't be missed!

 

Byee.......

[ThailandRyan]

On 6/3/2021 at 7:01 AM, faraday said:

*!!!! me* Another Covid thread!

 

 

What do you expect on a covid forum.  Look elsewhere in TV for what you want to see if it bothers you so much.

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, smoky said:

   I don't even know why I come here anymore, maybe just to get <deleted> off.

   Lets just face it, some people have taken the Koolaid, they believe all of the fear porn that is being dished out 27/7 by the corrupt bought and paid for media.

As much as I would love to believe that I could talk some critical thinking into the heads of these sheep. It just isn't going to happen.

    Maybe I come here to read the occasional cogent post by someone like James105

What a Wiseman you must be, and above all it appears you are perfect.  Try to explain to the families of the deceased and those with long covid that it is not real...

[smoky]

Just now, smoky said:

Explain to them why perfectly good treatments were withheld.

BTW not perfect.

[faraday]

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

What do you expect on a covid forum.  Look elsewhere in TV for what you want to see if it bothers you so much.

Get out of bed the wrong side of bed did you Ryan?

 

 

[Rimmer]

Some flames and troll posts removed

[Fromas]

A poster continues to compare static snapshots of TOTALS rather than historical data to track lockdown interventions.

 

At this point in time, it's safe to say basic scientific principles are rejected, and the inquiring "questions" are feigned.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Fromas

[ThailandRyan]

34 minutes ago, faraday said:

Get out of bed the wrong side of bed did you Ryan?

 

 

Nope not at all.  If a Covid post on a Covid form is not what you want to see there are plenty of other OPs as I said on TV.  

[faraday]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nope not at all.  If a Covid post on a Covid form is not what you want to see there are plenty of other OPs as I said on TV.  

Ahhh....the Sunday morning grumpiness.

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, faraday said:

Ahhh....the Sunday morning grumpiness.

Such a dreamer Mr. Faraday????

[faraday]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

Such a dreamer Mr. Faraday????

Noblesse oblige.

[Rimmer]

Can we stop the off topic pointless bickering please

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:54 PM, Logosone said:

 

It's not a semantic debate at all, it's a debate on whether what people call a lockdown is sufficiently restrictive to be effective, with people going out routinely for food, medical supplies, trucks coming in to replenish supplies, commuters allowed to come in from other countries, air travel continuing etc.

 

Given that no lockdown has stopped the spread of the virus, it's pretty clear they don't work in that sense.

 

Yes, it is of course the case that lockdown can stop a number of transmissions, but given that the virus has already spread outside the lockdown area, or is being spread through soft lockdown exemptions, we have seen that no lockdown has succeeded in stopping the spread of the virus.

People either think lockdowns work or they think they don't. I'm not even going to waste my time debating the pro masks/ lockdown posters.