One Bike to do Everything - Suggestions and Advice Please

[mikebike]

My money's on the CRF300 Rally... but I couldn't care less about ABS... lots of dirt roads and trails where I am. On the highway it will do 120 easy with stock gearing. Good range with the larger tank standard. Add a Givi box and you've got your grocery getter.

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

From the OP - "The Versys X300 is close to my spec, but cruising at 10'000 RPM is not ideal."

 

How fast you cruising ?

The X300 is very low geared - so normal 80 to 90 KPH highway speeds are up in the 9000 to 10,000 RPM range.  And the bigger issue is that there's not much left for overtaking.  The Z and Ninja 400 are more relaxed with a much higher top speed, which is why the small Kawasaki adventure bike looks to have the wrong engine.

[Kinnock]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

My money's on the CRF300 Rally... but I couldn't care less about ABS... lots of dirt roads and trails where I am. On the highway it will do 120 easy with stock gearing. Good range with the larger tank standard. Add a Givi box and you've got your grocery getter.

Yes, I'm beginning to think that way too.  Only other issue with the Honda is that it's very poor with a pillion passenger due to odd rear peg location, but I only have passengers for short distances.

[jvs]

10 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Good suggestion ..... dropping 2 teeth on the rear sprocket seems to be a common mod on the Versys forum - but I wasn't sure if this effects the speedometer or engine management?

Two teeth is not much at all,i would go for one teeth bigger up front,you have lots of revs

to works with.

You can find out exactly how much difference you get,i forgot the math but it is not difficult.Apps are on google.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

21 hours ago, Kinnock said:

All good points - it's a challenge.

 

Shame it doesn't exist. ????

 

I can recall watching movies in which the protagonist's motorcycle would from scene to scene seamlessly morph from a four-cylinder four-stroke street bike into a single-cylinder two-stroke dirt bike all the while sounding like a two-cylinder four-stroke. I guess they don't make those anymore!

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Its necessary on a big bike in my opinion but not so much on a scooter. Yes it was not there before but things have moved on, we also drove cars without airbags before but I will never buy one without them in 2021.

 

Same as traction control on my big bike, the power is so brutal it kicks in many times when I ride it hard, a life saver on Thailand often not so clean road surfaces. 

Don't get me wrong. But I like to ask: Should you, or anybody else, ride a bike which needs all this electronic support? And if the bike wouldn't have these support functions you (and me and many others) wouldn't be able to control such a bike?

I just saw an interesting video on YouTube about 600cc vs 1000cc bikes.

My summary of that video is: Lots of guy buy a 1000cc bike and they only survive on that bike because it has all those electronic control features. If these guys would buy a bike according to their riding skills then they should never buy a 1000cc...

 

[VocalNeal]

13 hours ago, Kinnock said:

The Versys X300 is close to my spec, but cruising at 10'000 RPM is not ideal. 

 

I am not sure exactly where you would cruise at 140kph? OK I've come back from Udon Thani - BKK at 140+ in some sections but I wouldn't exactly call it cruising.

The 300 is simply a Ninja engine in an adventure frame so it is a sit up and beg sport bike. Simpler to simply make one engine and put it in two bikes.

 

13 hours ago, jvs said:

If you like the bike you can try different sprockets,can make a huge difference.

 

The most common mod for predominantly road use is to go up 1 tooth on the front sprocket this drops the rpm by around 500 in 6th without any complaints from the ECU. Sprocket is around 400 Baht. 

I cruise at around 8000-8500 about 120-125 kph on dual carriageways/divided highways. The rest of the time at around 7000 which is just over 100 kph. Which still allows me to smell the roses.

 

If you were happy on a CRF you should be happy on a 300X. There is very little vibration and if you don't like revs you could cover the tach. with black tape. 

 

[papa al]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Is it nice to have ABS? Yes. 

why?

[GoFaster]

Ducati Multistrada to a Tee

[mrfill]

8 hours ago, Kinnock said:

The X300 is very low geared - so normal 80 to 90 KPH highway speeds are up in the 9000 to 10,000 RPM range.  And the bigger issue is that there's not much left for overtaking.  The Z and Ninja 400 are more relaxed with a much higher top speed, which is why the small Kawasaki adventure bike looks to have the wrong engine.

Motor Cycle News tested an x300. 60mph (100kph) = 7000rpm and they say "You can cruise comfortably at 80mph and can even increase that to 90mph with no real issues. Sure, the revs are high and it’s a little buzzy, but your fillings aren’t being shaken loose."

90mph (150kph) would equate to 10500rpm, which is nothing to a Kwak engine which revs to 12000

 

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/kawasaki/versys-x-300/2017/

Edited June 15, 2021 by mrfill

[guzzi850m2]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't get me wrong. But I like to ask: Should you, or anybody else, ride a bike which needs all this electronic support? And if the bike wouldn't have these support functions you (and me and many others) wouldn't be able to control such a bike?

I just saw an interesting video on YouTube about 600cc vs 1000cc bikes.

My summary of that video is: Lots of guy buy a 1000cc bike and they only survive on that bike because it has all those electronic control features. If these guys would buy a bike according to their riding skills then they should never buy a 1000cc...

 

Today's 1000cc sports bikes are crazy powerful, +200hp is the norm.

 

I would never buy such a bike, especially for Thailand. Most don't have the necessary skill-set to utilize all that power and you can't on a public road anyway it's way too risky. 

 

My own bike has app 115hp and that's more than enough for me but as I said, the traction control kicks in often during heavy acceleration because the roads are not that clean compared to EU. Even those painted 80km/h green dots on Sukhumvit road in Pattaya can easily trigger TC if I accelerate hard up to 80-90 km/h on that road.

 

Conclusion: Yes I need T.C. on this particular bike but I can actually switch it off if I want (3 settings: Off-1-2). The bike also have 3 engine modes: (Rain-Normal-A mode). A mode gives a very snappy power response and very easy to lift the front wheel when taking off, very fun indeed. Rain mode + TC2 is good in heavy rain, everything is dimmed down quite a lot and the bikes becomes "lazy". 

 

The bike I recommended to OP don't have all this fancy stuff (T7) but you can switch off ABS if you want for off-roading.

 

 

[lesmac]

I have a Forza 300 and a Honda NC 750x. The Forza gets a lot of use. If I wanted to down to 1 bike I would consider the Yamaha 535 just a bigger Forza. I have driven 1 and was impressed but they are expensive in my opinion.

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, Kinnock said:

The X300 is very low geared - so normal 80 to 90 KPH highway speeds are up in the 9000 to 10,000 RPM range. 

 

Wrong. Stock. 80 kph is a tad under 6000 while 90 is around 6500. With one tooth added that becomes 5500 and 6000. A bit low for the 300. It prefers to be at or above above 7000. But at 80-90 kph there is always 5th gear.

[canthai55]

53 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Today's 1000cc sports bikes are crazy powerful, +200hp is the norm.

Had a GPz Kawa back in the day - heavily modded. 200+

Twist the throttle and you don't ride there - you ARE there.

Fun - but get you into trouble in a heartbeat

[CLW]

How about Benelli Leoncino? Or Bajaj NS200? They also have a 400ish Bike, Dominator but no ABS.

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

How about Benelli Leoncino? Or Bajaj NS200? They also have a 400ish Bike, Dominator but no ABS.

I don't think Bajaj is available here?  I like the look of the Leoncino, but unfortunately very few dealers in Thailand.

[Damrongsak]

13 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

those are the bikes I have. every time I get back on the Click after riding the Versys 650 I feel like Pee Wee Herman. 

[traveller101]

Honda Forza 350 comes to mind:

Enough power for effortless cruising @120km/h, ABS, enough storage, not too heavy (182kg), easy maneuverable, extensive Dealer Network, some protection from adverse weather, very comfortable.

 

https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/scooter/forza-350/specifications.html

[siam dreamers]

Consider rethinking the Enfield 650 twin at 202kilo with abs fron and back.  About 170,000 used and a great all around bike. I use it as my daily driver and enjoy it every time I am on it. Pleasurable easy going ride.

[NoshowJones]

My Honda Forza 300cc does everything for me, and would probably be as near as you can get to your six things. 

[thvima]

maybe the correct one is the one that allow you to ride on a wheelchair ?

 

[dddave]

On 6/15/2021 at 8:48 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Sure. But then millions of motorcycle riders were perfectly fine without ABS for decades.

Is it nice to have ABS? Yes. Is it necessary? No.

I'd been riding for 15 years when I took an MSF* 3 day rider course because completing it gave me huge insurance discounts.  I was ready to be totally bored because I already knew everything I needed to know.  I was so wrong.  I quickly learned that I was doing a lot of basic stuff wrong, like braking on wet surfaces and especially in situations like downhill or tightening radius curves.  The instructor, himself a former AMA racer, made the point that very few self-trained riders know nearly as much as they think they do.  Trouble comes when they encounter an unusual situation.

 

I still read my local newspaper online and it seems that every week during the warm months, there are reports of older, experienced riders being killed in crashes on very ordinary roads.  I've noticed that frequently, these crashes seem to happen on highway exit ramps which often have sharp, tightening curves.  Guys don't dump enough speed, start heading for the curb and lock the brakes.

 

I truly believe ABS has saved a lot of riders in panic stop situations.  They may not realize that ABS saved their ass but MSF studies have shown that the crash rate for ABS equipped bikes if significantly lower than for non-ABS.  Insurance companies in the US discount policies on bikes with ABS.  That tells you something.

 

*Motorcycle Safety Foundation

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by dddave

[OneMoreFarang]

12 minutes ago, dddave said:

I'd been riding for 15 years when I took an MSF* 3 day rider course because completing it gave me huge insurance discounts.  I was ready to be totally bored because I already knew everything I needed to know.  I was so wrong.  I quickly learned that I was doing a lot of basic stuff wrong, like braking on wet surfaces and especially in situations like downhill or tightening radius curves.  The instructor, himself a former AMA racer, made the point that very few self-trained riders know nearly as much as they think they do.  Trouble comes when they encounter an unusual situation.

 

I still read my local newspaper online and it seems that every week during the warm months, there are reports of older, experienced riders being killed in crashes on very ordinary roads.  I've noticed that frequently, these crashes seem to happen on highway exit ramps which often have sharp, tightening curves.  Guys don't dump enough speed, start heading for the curb and lock the brakes.

 

I truly believe ABS has saved a lot of riders in panic stop situations.  They may not realize that ABS saved their ass but MSF studies have shown that the crash rate for ABS equipped bikes if significantly lower than for non-ABS.  Insurance companies in the US discount policies on bikes with ABS.  That tells you something.

 

*Motorcycle Safety Foundation

It's definitely good to learn "new" skills and ABS is definitely nice to have.

 

I think another problem is that there are just too many (older) guys who buy the newest 1000cc bikes.

Is that a good idea? Sure not!

I had a 400cc VFR400 with about 65HP in Thailand. That thing was a rocket - or at least I thought so. Except on a racetrack and maybe the Autobahn there are few places to ride that "little 400cc bike" up to it's limits.

 

I remember when maybe 40 years ago the first bikes with 100HP were sold. Most riders though it is just crazy to have such a bike on normal roads. Now many 1000cc bikes have about 200HP. Mix that with riders who are not professional racing riders and who use the bike only on good weather weekends and then it's no surprise when too many things go wrong.

Personally I don't think I will ever buy a bike with more than 400 or max 600cc in Thailand. And I am pretty sure I will never be able to use those bikes up to their limits. What's the point in more powerful bikes for "normal people"?

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Personally I don't think I will ever buy a bike with more than 400 or max 600cc in Thailand. And I am pretty sure I will never be able to use those bikes up to their limits. What's the point in more powerful bikes for "normal people"?

 

 

I agree.

 

In my younger days I liked smaller sportbikes and owned a Yamaha RZ350 and Kawasaki Ninja 600R. These bikes were capable of exceeding my abilities, but I did enjoy riding them, even if well below their performance limits. My last bike before moving to Thailand in the '80s was a BMW K75s which was more aligned with my evolution to riding longer distances at (mostly) legal speeds in a more comfortable manner.

 

As a teenager, I liked motocross and have the broken bones (and a few trophies) to show for it.

 

Age and family responsibilities have made me more aware of the risks involved in motorcycling, especially on the roads here in Thailand, and I do not now own a bike.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, siam dreamers said:

Consider rethinking the Enfield 650 twin at 202kilo with abs fron and back.  About 170,000 used and a great all around bike. I use it as my daily driver and enjoy it every time I am on it. Pleasurable easy going ride.

I just sold my 2020 Interceptor 650 for 160,000. Had A&E exhaust, bag racks and large engine guards. Nice bike.

[canthai55]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 What's the point in more powerful bikes for "normal people"?

Blinding acceleration - if you ain't never felt it you can never know.

The feeling that the handlebars are about to be yanked out of your hands.

The furious push in the butt when you twist the grip.

Needed - no. But like so many of the finer things in life - nice to have.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Blinding acceleration - if you ain't never felt it you can never know.

The feeling that the handlebars are about to be yanked out of your hands.

The furious push in the butt when you twist the grip.

Needed - no. But like so many of the finer things in life - nice to have.

My VFR accelerated to 100km/h in the 1st gear - 14,500 RPM. I loved that feeling. I am sure with a 600cc or 1000cc there would be more of the same. But it's nice if you can actually use more than the first two gears of a bike... 

[Kalorymetr]

On 6/15/2021 at 8:48 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Sure. But then millions of motorcycle riders were perfectly fine without ABS for decades.

Is it nice to have ABS? Yes. Is it necessary? No.

Same with cars, automatic gearboxes and all other improvements. Does it bother you in any way you have it? No.. Can it save your life? Damn, yes!

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Kalorymetr said:

Same with cars, automatic gearboxes and all other improvements. Does it bother you in any way you have it? No.. Can it save your life? Damn, yes!

Since when do automatic gearboxes save lives?

 

I think the best life saving issue is a competent driver. And it seem with all those extras many people never learn that brakes have limits and all these little things. I think everybody should learn to drive and ride on vehicles which don't have all those things to make it easier. If people know how to emergency brake without ABS then they can still buy a car with ABS later.

[pseudorabies]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Blinding acceleration - if you ain't never felt it you can never know.

The feeling that the handlebars are about to be yanked out of your hands.

The furious push in the butt when you twist the grip.

Needed - no. But like so many of the finer things in life - nice to have.

It's a thrill for sure.  The memory of the first time I twisted the throttle wide open on my Kawa H2 triple is branded into my memory.  I knew its reputation but it still took me by surprise. It was that bike that taught me the importance of squeezing the tank with my knees.  For me the benefit of a larger, more powerful bike is responsiveness on the highway.  Before I moved to Thailand I had a ZRX1200, Sprint 1050 sport tourer and a Versys 650.  The versys was a fun bike for sure and I would highly recommend it to the OP. On the highway I felt like I had to plan overtakes as if I was in a car.  On either of my other bikes I didn't have to think, just twist the throttle with no downshifting. Acceleration was instant and, especially for the ZRX, brutal. The Versys was a blast to ride and by far the most comfortable.  The only drawback is that you can't turn off the abs which you don't want on if you are going off road.  However I think the Versys is perfect for Thailand.  There's a reason why so many of the touring outfits in Thailand use the V-650.

 

I don't think anyone has mentioned the Yamaha MT-07.  I rented one a few months ago and it was a hoot to ride.  It has a grunty engine, is small and very agile.  I had it up to 120kph briefly which it got to with no problems.  To me it felt like a scooter with a helluva engine.  I think it would be good in the city and handle the out of town excursions, say to Pattaya, without any problems.  Just a thought.