One Bike to do Everything - Suggestions and Advice Please

[alacrity]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Since when do automatic gearboxes save lives?

 

I think the best life saving issue is a competent driver. And it seem with all those extras many people never learn that brakes have limits and all these little things. I think everybody should learn to drive and ride on vehicles which don't have all those things to make it easier. If people know how to emergency brake without ABS then they can still buy a car with ABS later.

Which kind of makes the ABS redundant.

 

Not all of the 'safety' features are of the same standard. It's a bit like saying 'there's no such thing as bad beer', yet some beers are much nicer than others. My truck has got 'adaptive cruise control', as does my sedan. Here, I'll only engage 'auto tailgate' on one of those and it isn't the truck.

 

There isn't a single bike that comes close to all your preferences and that's good. Such a bike would be very boring.

 

Bikes are cheap and unless I was stuck for space, I'd buy the best for each of your categorized preferences.

 

 

[VocalNeal]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But it's nice if you can actually use more than the first two gears of a bike... 

 

Well that's the thing with a 300X. It takes 3 gears to get to 100 but you can use more if you want. It is like playing MotoGP but at lower speeds.

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, alacrity said:

If people know how to emergency brake without ABS then they can still buy a car with ABS later.

 

Most people don't emergency brake even with ABS. And they certainly don't practice.

 

[Kinnock]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I just sold my 2020 Interceptor 650 for 160,000. Had A&E exhaust, bag racks and large engine guards. Nice bike.

Interested to hear why you sold the Interceptor?

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, dddave said:

 

I truly believe ABS has saved a lot of riders in panic stop situations.  They may not realize that ABS saved their ass but MSF studies have shown that the crash rate for ABS equipped bikes if significantly lower than for non-ABS.

 

 

Without any doubt whatsoever ABS has saved me a few times....

 

It's good to test the brakes and to practice emergency braking in a car park etc...  but in the dry with a good surface is very different to the variable grip on Thailands roads which range from excellent grip on fresh surfaces to terrible on glossy smooth polished roads. 

 

Then get on to a highly polished road in damp and greasy conditions and have someone suddenly pull out in front of you... ABS - thank you !!!! 

 

The roads are so ‘smooth’ that the ABS on my rear brake comes on fairly often when I braking fairly hard in normal dry conditions (thats just the rear unloading).

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Interested to hear why you sold the Interceptor?

Bought a used Triumph Bobber. The Interceptor is a very good all around bike, but couldn't rationalize having 2 big bikes.

[papa al]

On 6/15/2021 at 5:14 PM, mrfill said:

10500rpm, which is nothing

Keep a close eye on oil level when cruising at these R's.

Could easily lose a decaliter in an hour.

Carry a spare bottle to keep topped up.

 

 

 

[Kalorymetr]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Since when do automatic gearboxes save lives?

 

I think the best life saving issue is a competent driver. And it seem with all those extras many people never learn that brakes have limits and all these little things. I think everybody should learn to drive and ride on vehicles which don't have all those things to make it easier. If people know how to emergency brake without ABS then they can still buy a car with ABS later.

No, sorry. I was talking about life saving and just making life easier kind of improvements. NEither is neccesary but both nice to have. You can ride your oldschool no electronics bike though. It is a free world ???? I just hope you don't kill a pedestrian or other biker with your manual breaking.

No human will be as effecient as ABS, this was tested many many times. 

[OneMoreFarang]

17 minutes ago, Kalorymetr said:

No, sorry. I was talking about life saving and just making life easier kind of improvements. NEither is neccesary but both nice to have. You can ride your oldschool no electronics bike though. It is a free world ???? I just hope you don't kill a pedestrian or other biker with your manual breaking.

No human will be as effecient as ABS, this was tested many many times. 

Until now I didn't kill or injure anybody with a car or a bike and I try to keep it like that for the future.

And one of my bikes has ABS and I like that - even if that ABS was never active when I was riding that bike

 

What irritates me is this whole trend that more and more cars and bikes have lots of power and lots of electronic functionality to make sure "inexperienced" drivers and riders don't kill themselves or anybody else. If the vehicles wouldn't have so much power then they wouldn't need all that electronic to control it.

 

And then there are cars with so called auto-pilot. And they are sold like they drive themselves. And the "driver" can basically sleep or be drunk and look what happens. That is until the moment when the electronic decides the electronic can't handle the situation anymore. And then drivers who didn't really drive since a long time are supposed to be able to handle difficult emergency situations. What could possibly go wrong? ... 

[mikebike]

37 minutes ago, Kalorymetr said:

No human will be as effecient as ABS, this was tested many many times. 

This is true. And tho ABS may be the saviour of those who have riden beyond their capabilities, it does not replace the brain of a compitent rider and the ability to use your hands and feet efficiently and oh so satisfactorily when something unforeseen occurs.

[canthai55]

Had ABS save me once - on a rented Versys when I was road testing one prior to possibly buying one.

All previous riding done sans ABS - never killed anyone, but been nearly killed too many times to count.

What people need to do while driving or riding is DRIVE or RIDE.

Don't eat, talk on the fone, text, the list goes on.

Pay Attention and most accidents are avoidable

[OneMoreFarang]

46 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

What people need to do while driving or riding is DRIVE or RIDE.

Don't eat, talk on the fone, text, the list goes on.

Pay Attention and most accidents are avoidable

That is a very good point.

And I think if a bike or car does not have all those "we correct what you do wrong" features then the rider has to be alert and he has to learn, hopefully slowly, the limitations. I am pretty sure at least in average riders with old technology bikes are better than those who only ever had high tech bikes.

[mikebike]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am pretty sure at least in average riders with old technology bikes are better than those who only ever had high tech bikes.

I'm guessing experience has more to do with it than the bike you ride. I'd be riding my 50cc honda mini on snow and ice all winter long when I was 10... being "out of shape" doesn't bother me at all...

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

I'm guessing experience has more to do with it than the bike you ride. I'd be riding my 50cc honda mini on snow and ice all winter long when I was 10... being "out of shape" doesn't bother me at all...

I had a highly tuned 80cc two-stroke when I was young.

In good conditions I made sure that it always revved over 8000 RPM and that was a lot of fun.

And it winter I made sure I stay below the two-stroke power band. ???? 

[Kalorymetr]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Until now I didn't kill or injure anybody with a car or a bike and I try to keep it like that for the future.

And one of my bikes has ABS and I like that - even if that ABS was never active when I was riding that bike

 

What irritates me is this whole trend that more and more cars and bikes have lots of power and lots of electronic functionality to make sure "inexperienced" drivers and riders don't kill themselves or anybody else. If the vehicles wouldn't have so much power then they wouldn't need all that electronic to control it.

 

And then there are cars with so called auto-pilot. And they are sold like they drive themselves. And the "driver" can basically sleep or be drunk and look what happens. That is until the moment when the electronic decides the electronic can't handle the situation anymore. And then drivers who didn't really drive since a long time are supposed to be able to handle difficult emergency situations. What could possibly go wrong? ... 

If you think you think you can react fast than a computer, we have nothing to talk about.

Your argument: "I didn't killed anybody yet.." It is common fallacy, also discouring me from discussion, as you cannot provide arguments. Your example doesn't mean a thing, and if you crash it might be you won't even be there to tell as about it.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Kalorymetr said:

If you think you think you can react fast than a computer, we have nothing to talk about.

Your argument: "I didn't killed anybody yet.." It is common fallacy, also discouring me from discussion, as you cannot provide arguments. Your example doesn't mean a thing, and if you crash it might be you won't even be there to tell as about it.

It seems you argue with yourself.

I clearly wrote above that I think ABS is a good idea and it's nice to have. If I buy a new bike and ABS is on offer then I would buy it with ABS - like my current KTM.

My point was and is that if riders are used to ride without ABS and other gadgets then they likely know better the limits of the bike. I think it's good to know the limits of the bike and our own limits - with or without ABS.

And anybody would want to buy an "old" bike without ABS sometime in their life then I am sure people who learned to ride without ABS have the advantage. Riders who are 100% used to ABS bikes will likely have a problem if they ride a bike without ABS and then they have to brake hard.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That is a very good point.

And I think if a bike or car does not have all those "we correct what you do wrong" features then the rider has to be alert and he has to learn, hopefully slowly, the limitations. I am pretty sure at least in average riders with old technology bikes are better than those who only ever had high tech bikes.

 

Who cares... ABS is here and its safer than not having ABS... 

 

Riding on a road where the surface changes, is dry and grippy in one section then smooth wet and greasy in another, then someone forces us to emergency brake....  ABS is essential. 

 

There are too many egos who think they are great riders...

 

... as the saying is goes... ’there are old bikers and there are bold bikers but there are no old bold bikers’ !!! 

 

Everyone who rides on the road with ABS is in a safer position than the same person riding without, the same can be said for all the biker aids.

 

Who cares who is the better rider - we just want as safe as possible so we get home - ABS gives us that. 

 

 

I reckon I would have dropped my bike a couple of times already without ABS. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I reckon I would have dropped my bike a couple of times already without ABS. 

Did you even consider that maybe you pushed the bike too much if you would have had an accident without ABS?

 

I never push my bike to its limit. I like that I have ABS but I don't want to ride in a way that I need ABS to survive. 

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I reckon I would have dropped my bike a couple of times already without ABS. 

Did you even consider that maybe you pushed the bike too much if you would have had an accident without ABS?

 

I never push my bike to its limit. I like that I have ABS but I don't want to ride in a way that I need ABS to survive. 

 

Push the bike to its limit ??? - 

 

We're discussing about riding in central Bangkok and emergency braking not steaming round Bira.

 

I’ve had bikes pull out on my while in my car and the ABS has come on when I brake hard... its hardly pushing the limit of the car. 

 

 

ABS coming on while emergency braking on a bike means you are braking to the maximum effect. 

Without ABS I may not have been able to stop the bike as effectively, or would have dropped the bike as the front end skids. 

 

Practice emergency braking all day long in a car park from 20kmh up to 60kmh... then go out on a smooth and polished tarmac and feel the ABS come on as you apply a similar braking force from a similar speed. 

 

 

So.... technically, Yep... I pushed the bike past the limit of the tire grip on that surface.... 

 

Happy I have ABS but don’t believe ABS would have engaged on better quality roads (not blaming the road, so much as complimenting ABS).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikebike]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

ABS coming on while emergency braking on a bike means you are braking to the maximum effect. 

You fundamentally misunderstand ABS. It is meant to save you when you have over ridden in a situation... no different than seat belts or crumple-zones in cars. If your ABS is engaging frequently in everyday riding, you ARE doing it wrong, or your ABS needs adjustment 

[CLW]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:36 PM, Kinnock said:

I don't think Bajaj is available here?  I like the look of the Leoncino, but unfortunately very few dealers in Thailand.

Bajaj available since a few months, they have cooperation with Suzuki dealers. For example VROOM motorcycles Bangkok. I also believe they are the main importer.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

You fundamentally misunderstand ABS. It is meant to save you when you have over ridden in a situation... no different than seat belts or crumple-zones in cars. If your ABS is engaging frequently in everyday riding, you ARE doing it wrong, or your ABS needs adjustment 

 

The front ABS engaging is not an every day occurrence - I haven’t said that, you have assumed that.

 

I agree with you... If the ABS comes on I have ‘over ridden a situation’... but that is very difficult not to do in Thailand, cars pull out, we get cut up, people do outrageously stupid stuff - we sometimes have to emergency brake. Most of the time its just braking, but when the road quality is extremely poor the ABS on the front has engaged (about 4 times in about 3 years or so). 

 

Now... people can ‘Peacock’ and claim they never get into situations because they read the road ahead etc.. but thats just utter tosh - even when expecting the unexpected we are still surprised.

 

In emergency situations when someone pulls out etc I’m glad I have ABS and wouldn’t want to ride Thailands unpredictable and poor quality roads without it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

ABS coming on while emergency braking on a bike means you are braking to the maximum effect. 

You fundamentally misunderstand ABS. It is meant to save you when you have over ridden in a situation... no different than seat belts or crumple-zones in cars. If your ABS is engaging frequently in everyday riding, you ARE doing it wrong, or your ABS needs adjustment 

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant... 

When emergency braking, if the ABS engages I have applied as much brake as the grip can take (preloading accounted for).

 

An expert can brake to the maximum effect without ABS, but I am no expert and I’m unable to predict with great accuracy the ‘skid point’ on roads which sometimes have good grip, sometimes are polished and greasy. 

 

When emergency braking, IF the ABS engages, even if ‘triggered’ for a split second, it means I’m getting the most out of the bikes braking given the grip and just slightly exceed the grip for a spilt second. 

 

Of course, I don’t like having to ‘brake as hard as possible’ on a bike (or in a car), but on rare occasions it's difficult to avoid. 

 

 

 

If my front ABS is regularly engaging, I am either dangerous or as you said, my ABS is poorly adjusted,  but that is not the case.

 

The point I wanted to make is that ABS is an excellent safety measure and has prevented me from the possibility of dropping the bike on a 4 occasions over the past few years.

 

 

Perhaps my tyres are very poor quality (OEM Metzelers) - on two occasions the rear end has slid out a little when I’ve accelerated out of a slow U-turn (polished roads and perhaps slightly too throttle friendly on those occasions, my bike is only 34 hp though).

[mikebike]

39 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Now... people can ‘Peacock’ and claim they never get into situations because they read the road ahead etc.. but thats just utter tosh - even when expecting the unexpected we are still surprised.

Now... who is making assumptions? 

 

We all "get into situations" no matter how well we read the road ahead. For me that was directly related to speed, not the ability to read the road.

 

My assertion is that experience is more valuable than external rider aids. Rider aids can be very useful to less experienced riders but very much less so to riders who are well seasoned in all conditions.

 

Without "peacocking", if I described to you all of the situations I have encountered in 50 years of 2 wheeling - when and why I crashed, when and why I avoided incident, it would fill a book.

 

In my, limited, not statistically relevant, experience, ABS would not have made a difference in either of the crashes I have had that caused me significant injury.

[KC 71]

400 cc

if not then a Bickerton

[KhaoYai]

Take a serious look at the Kawasaki ER6.  I had always had 900 and 1000 sports bikes in the UK but decided that they wouldn't be suitable in Thailand.  I'm partial to road trips but can't be doing with the BMW/Panniers thing, a backpack has always served me well. 

 

I wanted a bike that would be nimble enough for short local trips but had enough power to make touring possible without becoming a chore.

 

I saw a foreign owned ER6N for sale and bought it.  I have to say that once I got used to the downgrade in power (last bike was a ZX9), I made the right choice. I've had the bike for 3 years now (or at least I think I have - I haven't seen it since March 2020), done a few trips and quite a lot of 'local' running and I find the bike perfect for the state of the roads and the use I put it to.

 

Having ridden bigger stuff for many years I was quite surprised at how suited I was with the bike - I wouldn't part with it now.

[mikebike]

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

When emergency braking, if the ABS engages I have applied as much brake as the grip can take (preloading accounted for).

If we want to get really technical - I'm up for it!!

 

ABS activation parameters are set by engineers at the factory.

 

There are 2 types of ABS. 1st gen ABS engages equally whether you are riding upright on a straight or leaning into a curve. 2nd gen uses a gyro to input lean angle and adjust ABS intervention based on lean angle.

 

Obviously 1st gen ABS cannot engage perfectly for all lean angles or conditions. It is a factory-set parameter. 2nd gen ABS is currently available only on big-buck sport and adventure bikes (some newer ones can calculate wheel spin and infer available adhesion). But they ALL give you the option of turning off the ABS.

 

If your ABS is engaging you have not "applied as much brake as the grip", you have applied as much pressure as an engineer has determined is the optimal engagement point based on an AVERAGE of conditions and lean angles. Note: not "optimal under all conditions" but the average of all possible conditions.

 

The reason even the newest, feature-packed ABS offerings let you turn it off is because they know it is not the best solution to every rider in every situation.

[KhaoYai]

You guys arguing about ABS.............

 

I'm old school..................... had bikes all my life, ridden everything from a moped to a ZX10.I didn't need that new fangled ABS rubbish, I'm a real biker and can handle my bike...........until IT happened!

 

Around 18 months ago I was heading towards Korat in typical heavy but fast moving Thai traffic and moving through it at 100 to 120kph.  I took my eyes off the road for a split second during which another 'typical' thing for Thai traffic happened - it just stopped! 

 

I am 100% certain that I would not be here writing this if my bike didn't have ABS - I would have a Toyota badge implanted in my forehead.  It doesn't matter how good a rider you are, a human cannot react as fast as the ABS does.

 

I would not buy a bike without it now.

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Now... who is making assumptions? 

 

We all "get into situations" no matter how well we read the road ahead. For me that was directly related to speed, not the ability to read the road.

 

My assertion is that experience is more valuable than external rider aids. Rider aids can be very useful to less experienced riders but very much less so to riders who are well seasoned in all conditions.

 

Without "peacocking", if I described to you all of the situations I have encountered in 50 years of 2 wheeling - when and why I crashed, when and why I avoided incident, it would fill a book.

 

In my, limited, not statistically relevant, experience, ABS would not have made a difference in either of the crashes I have had that caused me significant injury.

 

You’ve been riding a lot longer than I. 

 

And I agree, experience is more valuable than ‘any’ rider aid. 

 

 

Different type of experience:

Riding experience and techniques - such as not just ‘covering the front brake with two fingers’ but also ‘carrying up the slack’ so that when we do have to brake we are not ’snatching’ at the lever... 

 

Also of key importance is the ’Thailand experience’ ... the inner, subconscious understanding that utter fv<kwittery can unfold in front of you in an instant.

 

It's quite possible to be reacting to situations before they unfold... then at other times impossible. 

 

-----

Riding in Bangkok we could all fill a book with close calls and utter stupidity (of other vehicles). 

 

Just the other day, riding down a sub soi in Bangkok a car coming towards me passing parked traffic on his side of the road... naughty, but its Thailand, it's expected and there was enough space to pass.

Then motorcycle turns right, from my left, and heads straight towards me. He doesn’t tuck in behind the car, but remains parallel with the car, but tucks into the kerb and continues towards me.

 

Suddenly there is very little space... a car and motorcycle both heading towards me on my side of the road.

Not enough space to brake hard, split second evaluation, there is ‘just’ enough space for all vehicles to squeeze through and I split the bike to my left and car to my right - it felt like there was inches in it... (probably about 6” each side of my handlebars). 

 

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

If we want to get really technical - I'm up for it!!

 

ABS activation parameters are set by engineers at the factory.

 

There are 2 types of ABS. 1st gen ABS engages equally whether you are riding upright on a straight or leaning into a curve. 2nd gen uses a gyro to input lean angle and adjust ABS intervention based on lean angle.

 

Cornering ABS...  common on a lot of bigger bikes now.  My bike doesn’t have it. Hopefully my next bike will.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Obviously 1st gen ABS cannot engage perfectly for all lean angles or conditions. It is a factory-set parameter. 2nd gen ABS is currently available only on big-buck sport and adventure bikes (some newer ones can calculate wheel spin and infer available adhesion). But they ALL give you the option of turning off the ABS.

 

Can be turned off mostly for off-road use (ADV bikes etc) or track use (sports bikes). 

 

 

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

If your ABS is engaging you have not "applied as much brake as the grip", you have applied as much pressure as an engineer has determined is the optimal engagement point based on an AVERAGE of conditions and lean angles. Note: not "optimal under all conditions" but the average of all possible conditions.

 

Valid point...  I doubt that in an emergency situation I could stop quicker without ABS though without risking dropping the bike.

It would take a me a few attempts to feel out the grip levels etc...  but ultimately we don’t have that luxury when emergency braking on the road. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

The reason even the newest, feature-packed ABS offerings let you turn it off is because they know it is not the best solution to every rider in every situation.

 

Primarily dependant on the road surface - i.e. gravel etc...  

 

Anyone turning off the ABS on a road bike on the road would have to be a little bit silly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

I am 100% certain that I would not be here writing this if my bike didn't have ABS - I would have a Toyota badge implanted in my forehead.  It doesn't matter how good a rider you are, a human cannot react as fast as the ABS does.

Well, if we just want to use subjective stories - I got one too!!

 

Me and my bestie were doing a 6hr ride home from a weekend of debauchery and about half way thru the skies opened up. Our theory of rain riding, at the time, was "just go faster - it'll be over sooner". I was lead riding and he was blind following because he couldn't see anything but rain and spray. I screwed up and made a pass that he was never going to be able to follow... but he did. I completed the pass and went right to the shoulder to give him room to try to squeeze in before the oncoming car obliterated him. So he cut back in at stupid speed, hauled on the non-ABS brakes with all his experience, and got to see the horrified faces of 2 girls in the backseat of a jeep cj as he controlled a wavering front wheel braking inches from their bumper.

 

NO harm - no foul.