Update on Thailand's vaccination programme and our response

[British Consular Team]

There have been a lot of comments and questions about the Thai vaccine programme on the Forum. As the Consul here, and head of the Consular team, I’d like to respond to some of these.  

 

A lot of people have noted serious difficulties with the roll-out of the Thai programme and told us that the Ambassador/Embassy are doing nothing/should do more. We know this is a very difficult and worrying time and people are really concerned. The Ambassador has spoken to Thai authorities about the vaccination programme several times, including when he met the Prime Minister recently. He did it again at a meeting with the Foreign Minister on 28^th June. In his discussions he has emphasised the importance of consistency in the application of the government’s policy on equal access, an efficient registration system and clear communications. The Embassy is also in constant discussions with the Ministry of Public Health and other authorities at several levels, including on individual cases involving vulnerable British nationals.

 

Many people continue to ask if we can arrange vaccines for British people in Thailand. There is no change to the UK government's position on this. The NHS does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including here. This is not an excuse – it’s the UK government’s policy.

 

We are also getting a lot of requests for help from vulnerable British nationals. These will always be a priority for us. We can’t provide vaccines ourselves but we will provide all the help we can to get vulnerable British people vaccinated under the Thai scheme, and to support them with other needs also.

 

We have seen a lot of comments on the forum about other countries providing vaccines and asking what the British Embassy is doing.  Our position continues to be that the Thai government is responsible for the roll-out of vaccines in Thailand and that the UK cannot provide them. Thailand has made it clear that the programme will cover foreigners as well as Thais; our job is to do what we can to help that happen.  It’s worth noting as well that each country will make its own decisions on whether it can also offer vaccines, and almost all are telling their nationals to obtain vaccines in the Thai programme. 

 

Some people have registered for our bulletin then complained that it does not help them. The purpose of the bulletin is to gather together all the information we can, from public sources, from our discussions with Thai authorities and from our own network, and share this. As you will appreciate, this is difficult as the situation changes constantly, but we are doing our best to share accurate and useful information. The bulletin cannot ensure the Thai vaccination programme works, or serve any other purpose than inform you of the situation. If you no longer wish to receive it, let us know. But as someone once put it, please do not blame the weatherman for the quality of the weather.

 

Two final points. The first is to repeat that we really appreciate how worrying this time is and we are doing all we can to ensure that Brits in Thailand get vaccines as part of Thailand’s programme. We understand that the news that we've offered Embassy staff vaccines is difficult for some people to accept, but we must fulfil our duty of care to our staff. In the same way as the Thai authorities have the responsibility to provide vaccines and other healthcare to everyone resident in Thailand.

 

Secondly, I created these pages to start a conversation with the British community on this Forum, and to answer questions. We’ve managed to field a lot, and there have been some excellent discussions (and we are very grateful to everyone who has engaged positively, including people who challenge our position). I am still committed to the aims we have for these pages, but the Embassy has a zero tolerance policy to abuse and I will not allow my team to be exposed to it (about vaccines or any other issues). So I will continue to report posts that are abusive to moderators for this forum, and if I feel the levels become unacceptable, I’ll look at other measures, including the team no longer getting involved in discussions on certain topics here.

 

Paul

[homeseeker]

Paul says:

 

"Thai government is responsible for the roll-out of vaccines in Thailand and that the UK cannot provide them. Thailand has made it clear that the programme will cover foreigners as well as Thais; our job is to do what we can to help that happen."

(emphasis added)

 

So as u confirm you will help... tell us British passport holders where to go to get the vaccine here in Bangkok?

[sungod]

30 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

The NHS does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including here

 

But I'm told you vaccinated Thai staff at the Embassy? Thai Government roll out not good enough for them?

[mtls2005]

intervac is still dead.

 

That would sound funny if Chevy Chase were uttering it.

 

 

As the current round of vaccination appointments is full, we will be announcing the new round of appointments for vaccination at https://www.thailandintervac.com. We apologize for all inconvenience.

[Eff1n2ret]

24 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

The NHS does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including here. This is not an excuse – it’s the UK government’s policy.

With respect, that doesn't really meet the situation, (a) because the Government has committed to providing 100 million vaccine doses overseas, presumably all to people who are not entitled to NHS treatment, and (b) "government policy" has been massively amended in many ways over the last 18 months because of Covid. You're using the same excuse which freezes our pensions in complete denial of logic or justice.

[Dmaxdan]

1 hour ago, British Consular Team said:

 

 We understand that the news that we've offered Embassy staff vaccines is difficult for some people to accept, but we must fulfil our duty of care to our staff. 

I'm sorry but this goes against everything that the UK has done with is own vaccination program.

The UK government has done a brilliant job of prioritizing those who are genuinely at risk from the Covid 19,  not cherry picking those who are deemed "more important" because of the roll they play in society. 

 

This is shameful on all accounts. 

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

With respect, that doesn't really meet the situation, (a) because the Government has committed to providing 100 million vaccine doses overseas, presumably all to people who are not entitled to NHS treatment, and (b) "government policy" has been massively amended in many ways over the last 18 months because of Covid. You're using the same excuse which freezes our pensions in complete denial of logic or justice.

Though the UK government cannot or will not provide NHS services outside of the UK.

 

They still care enough to tax us wherever we are in the world. It seems that they are quite happy to take our money and give nothing in return.

[ehs818]

France has announced that French citizens living in Thailand WILL get a vaccination shot via their embassy. Why is it that they can do so and the other Western countries, particularly those that tax their citizens who live overseas, continue to do nothing. Take take take and no help for us!

[JustinCredible]

4 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

With respect, that doesn't really meet the situation, (a) because the Government has committed to providing 100 million vaccine doses overseas, presumably all to people who are not entitled to NHS treatment, and (b) "government policy" has been massively amended in many ways over the last 18 months because of Covid. You're using the same excuse which freezes our pensions in complete denial of logic or justice.

 

With even more respect.........  The Consular team do not make the rules, but have to abide by them - whether they agree with them or not. 

They are not "making the same excuse" but merely stating UK Government policy. 

 

It is unfair to try to point a finger at the Consular Team!!

[Fab5BKK]

French citizens are getting Janssen vaccination shots across the country (8 sites)

[Guderian]

I've explained on here before that raising the issue of expats not having access to the NHS is a red herring. Just as in Thailand (though far more effectively), the UK government purchases the vaccines on behalf of the health system and then distributes them. HMG could decide to send 100,000 doses to Thailand tomorrow, if it so chose, and without bothering the NHS in the least but, as the Consul says, it is currently not their policy to do so. The question then is: how do we get HMG to change its policy on this matter? It can only be via communication, so get writing to your MP, to the leader of the opposition, to your devolved government if you come from outside England, and to the newspapers and other media, basically anybody you can think of. Ask friends and relatives to write on your behalf, politicians don't usually pay much attention to orderly, quiet groups of people, to get them to take notice we need to make a lot of noise.

[Eff1n2ret]

29 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

It is unfair to try to point a finger at the Consular Team!!

I'm simply responding to the OP. One hopes that the Consulate communicates both ways, not only passing on the Foreign Office's "line to take", but also feeding back the opinions of people who, in the prevailing circumstances feel somewhat abandoned.

[chrisdom]

38 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I've explained on here before that raising the issue of expats not having access to the NHS is a red herring. Just as in Thailand (though far more effectively), the UK government purchases the vaccines on behalf of the health system and then distributes them. HMG could decide to send 100,000 doses to Thailand tomorrow, if it so chose, and without bothering the NHS in the least but, as the Consul says, it is currently not their policy to do so. The question then is: how do we get HMG to change its policy on this matter? It can only be via communication, so get writing to your MP, to the leader of the opposition, to your devolved government if you come from outside England, and to the newspapers and other media, basically anybody you can think of. Ask friends and relatives to write on your behalf, politicians don't usually pay much attention to orderly, quiet groups of people, to get them to take notice we need to make a lot of noise.

This is the best advice but success is unlikely.

 

Remember

1) that the UK govt would only change policy for all ex-pats anywhere in the world - not just for Thailand. This would be far more than 100,000 doses.

2) that many tried to change the policy on pensions and failed.

 

No taxation without representation. Its a one way street.

 

[4MyEgo]

I'm not British, but hey, everyone see's what's going on here, governments are nothing but corporate entities who don't give a rats a$$ about their citizens if they live overseas, it's as if an ex employer is saying to an ex employee, well you wanted to leave.

 

But you can come back and use the facilities here if you like.

 

[ChrisKC]

It is the responsibility of the Thai Authorities to protect ALL citizens whilst residing in its country. You know as well as all of us that they couldn't run a sweet shop, let alone a country and in particular a country that has a serious problem with a worsening local pandemic. They have shown their incompetence in ways that leave all of us (as well as Thai people) in confusion, and in possible danger.

 

This is a once in a lifetime scenario that requires its exact circumstances to be recognised and one for the UK Government to address with haste and resolution.

 

British citizens are not going to be vaccinated in the near future in Thailand and it is for this reason, I believe that sending vaccines to Thailand would be more than gestural, in fact necessary. It doesn't need planeloads of nurses and equipment and beds, no doctors, no hospitals, just the vaccines - how difficult is that? We know it is UK Government policy but can it not be changed to take account of what is actually happening here? After all, Thai Government and Health Authorities are changing their policy almost every day!

 

We understand that the consuls and Embassies cannot offer help for trivial matters with individuals or expect preferential and expensive medical care when their citizens are out of their home country! But this is a pandemic! Everybody is a possible threat to everybody else. So we need to be vaccinated before matters escalate even further.

 

This is war! it is a war already a year and half old and still raging, where the enemy is invisible! But we do know the enemy doesn't like vaccine!

[chilly07]

We are not asking for the NHS to do anything. The Chinese and French have just sent a consignment to Private Hospitals in Thailand who have administered the vaccines. In the case of China it was part of a larger donation. The UK Government can do the same. It has a policy of sending surplus vaccines to Asean. 80000 prioritised for UK expats can easily form part of that. Are UK expats not eligible for UK aid in a pandemic? It is an unthinking and cruel policy that prevents this! The UK can send a carrier fleet to the region. Why not vaccines?

[mfd101]

Interesting to see how difficult people find it to distinguish between government policy and the poor officials who are paid to implement it.

 

No point in shouting at the bureaucrats.

[Guderian]

14 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Hi from a French in Thailand. Completely Vaccinated J&J since 2 days and still using the simple income letter to extend my visa each year.

Of course, this policy is not the consular responsibility, but I take this opportunity to salute the good care of the French authorities towards their expatriate nationals.

 

Congratulations, we envy you. A pity that the British government can't show a bit more compassion and humanity towards its nationals who have become stuck in a discriminatory (and probably racist) quagmire through no fault of their own. Shame on you both, Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab.

[condobrit001]

6 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

Many people continue to ask if we can arrange vaccines for British people in Thailand. There is no change to the UK government's position on this. The NHS does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including here. This is not an excuse – it’s the UK government’s policy.

With respect, NHS policy has nothing to do with this. The current position is that British lives are at risk due to the failure of the Thai regime to organise an effective vaccination programme. Your position should be to approach your masters in Whitehall and call for emmergency help to provide vaccines to their subjects in Thailand. The logistics of distribution and administration of doses are relatively simple if the French example is anything to go by. Will you commit to help us?

[BobinBKK]

Thailand, is a member of the World Trade Organization. National treatment is an integral part of many [World Trade Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization) agreements. It requires equal treatment of [foreigners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)) and locals.  Under national treatment, a [state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state) that grants particular rights, benefits or privileges to its own [citizens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen) must also grant those advantages to the citizens of other states while they are in that country. Together with the [most favored nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation) principle, national treatment is one of the cornerstones of WTO trade  law.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_treatment
 

According to the current Thai constitution and the agreements Thailand signed with the WTO, Thai citizens and foreign nationals are to be treated equally, period. Not holding up to ones commitments and agreements gives the appearance that the Thai constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on and that signed agreements or treaties with any organization or country mean absolutely nothing.

What are you doing to ensure the WTO principles that were agreed to are being upheld?

[condobrit001]

6 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

We understand that the news that we've offered Embassy staff vaccines is difficult for some people to accept, but we must fulfil our duty of care to our staff.

With respect, would you accept that you also have a duty of care for British citizens living in Thailand?

[Bangkok Barry]

36 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

British citizens are not going to be vaccinated in the near future in Thailand and it is for this reason, I believe that sending vaccines to Thailand would be more than gestural, in fact necessary. It doesn't need planeloads of nurses and equipment and beds, no doctors, no hospitals, just the vaccines - how difficult is that? We know it is UK Government policy but can it not be changed to take account of what is actually happening here? After all, Thai Government and Health Authorities are changing their policy almost every day!

 

I'm sorry, but this post and others demanding the UK send vaccines here smacks of 'I'm in the centre of the universe'. I'm sure there are countries with far more British expats than Thailand - India comes immediately to mind - that are also unable to vaccinate us, and where the virus has had truly devastating effects - unlike in Thailand where numbers, although rising, are still small.

 

Should the UK government help its own citizens first before sending vaccines to Third World - usually worn-torn - countries. Yes, of course. But 100,000 for the world, not just Thailand, won't cut it.

[fulhamster]

The intervac  app doesn't work. 

I have tried to register at local centres,  but only to be told that I cannot as the vaccine is only for Thais. 

Looks as though we are being forced towards paying extortionate costs to get vaccinated at private hospitals. 

Or was that the aim all along?? 

 

Despite being over 60 and asthmatic,  I really have given up on ever being vaccinated. 

 

[Pottinger]

For what it's worth, I am posting similar messages to those here on the British Embassy Manila Facebook page, and evoking no response. Here in the Philippines we are red-zoned pretty much to all of the rest of the World. The new Phuket Sandbox scheme is not open to us because, firstly, vaccine rollout here is even slower than in Thailand, and secondly we are red-zoned as far as Thailand is concerned. The final insult is that, since last March, in order to return to the UK, with mandatory hotel quarantine, tests and airfare, the cost has been upwards of £2750 - not affordable to many retirees.

[rickudon]

First, do not blame the consular team - they cannot change policy themselves. But they can give feedback to the UK government that those of us living here do feel like we are treated as something unwelcome stuck on it's shoe.

 

As said, no taxation without representation. I vote, when i can, and it will not be for the current government.

[Golden Triangle]

[email protected]

 

I had another email recently saying that my email has been passed to the relevant government department, no further reply as yet & to be honest I'm not expecting one, but I would say & have said before is Google email address for UK Prime minister, you will find options there, you are limited to 1000 characters but they will get & read it, the more people that do the better. 

[from the home of CC]

and folks say only the Thais are interested in 'saving face' , though I don't blame you in trying especially considering the French response - my country (Canada) also has no interest in aiding it's citizens. But like the First Nations say, " the apple doesn't fall far from the colonist tree, especially when landing upon an unmarked grave"

[Oxx]

7 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

We understand that the news that we've offered Embassy staff vaccines is difficult for some people to accept

 

But, as I understand it, you haven't only offered vaccines to Embassy staff, but also to their families, and to staff working for British Council language schools.  Hypocritical muchly?

[ChrisKC]

2 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I'm sorry, but this post and others demanding the UK send vaccines here smacks of 'I'm in the centre of the universe'. I'm sure there are countries with far more British expats than Thailand - India comes immediately to mind - that are also unable to vaccinate us, and where the virus has had truly devastating effects - unlike in Thailand where numbers, although rising, are still small.

 

Should the UK government help its own citizens first before sending vaccines to Third World - usually worn-torn - countries. Yes, of course. But 100,000 for the world, not just Thailand, won't cut it.

It doesn't smack of anything to me! Please do not compare me with those who think they are the centre of the Universe - I am not and do not think it! My position reflects that Thailand cannot fulfill its obligations to all citizens whoever they are and in this context and for this reason only that I think my Government could do something (that is relatively easy), to mitigate against the possible future dangers arising from Thailand's inability to provide vaccines after promising it would. And in any event, maybe it doesn't have to be every Brit, if criteria such as age and underling health conditions are precursors to decisions.

 

I don't think of it as a right! These are special circumstances that may never arise again in a lifetime. And special circumstances require special considerations!

 

Thailand can't do it, UK can't do it! So we are all at the mercy of what we can do for ourselves. And yes, personally, I will be one to cope and survive.

 

Though accepting that infection and deaths numbers are small compared with other countries, they are at their highest ever here and in spite of Authorities saying they are in control, evidently not!

 

I agree to some extent about third world countries needing help (though some Members here think Thailand is "third world"), but this is a deflection, which for me, is off topic.

 

 

[a340bangla1]

Just as an aside. A while ago I have received a mail very similar to the post by the Brtish Consular Team from the German embassy.