Thai landlord wants to increase the rent by 20% :(

[Dart12]

14 minutes ago, connda said:

Labor to move your stuff is dirt cheap.  Find another property, lock in a lease, and move.  Greed in a buyer's (renter's) market should not be rewarded.  You landlord will end up sitting on an overpriced property that will go unrented.  But typical Thai mindset - raise prices in the middle of an economic downturn.

how do you advertiise or find people to do this kind of work?  Any of it...regular cleaning, cooking, etc that is not a company type cleaning biz.

[spidermike007]

Prices are dropping daily. Give them an ultimatum. Not only am I not paying an increase, I want you to drop the rent by 4,000 baht per month, starting August 1st. How does that sound? 

 

The rental market is very slow now, and alot of landlords are hurting. A friend of mine just moved from a tiny, but a nice place with a seaview on Samui, to a much nicer place that is 3br./2ba. His rent dropped 3,000 baht a month, for the far larger house.

 

The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by 40%, or more over the next 5 years.

 

A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 28,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent or sell anything, at this time.

 

Another good friend told me that a girlfriend of his works as a senior level executive for one of Thailand's biggest developers. She told him that they have reduced their building by 90% of what it was pre-Covid, which was around 100 developments a year. They have shut down 90 projects, and this was before the govt. came in and shut down the building sites.

 

By the time all of this is over, I suspect it will be worse than the 1997 economic crisis, for Thailand. They are mishandling this in every way possible. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

Prices are dropping daily. Give them an ultimatum. Not only am I not paying an increase, I want you to drop the rent by 4,000 baht per month, starting August 1st. How does that sound? 

 

The rental market is very slow now, and alot of landlords are hurting. A friend of mine just moved from a tiny, but a nice place with a seaview on Samui, to a much nicer place that is 3br./2ba. His rent dropped 3,000 baht a month, for the far larger house.

 

The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by 40%, or more over the next 5 years.

 

A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 28,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent or sell anything, at this time.

 

Another good friend told me that a girlfriend of his works as a senior level executive for one of Thailand's biggest developers. She told him that they have reduced their building by 90% of what it was pre-Covid, which was around 100 developments a year. They have shut down 90 projects, and this was before the govt. came in and shut down the building sites.

 

By the time all of this is over, I suspect it will be worse than the 1997 economic crisis, for Thailand. They are mishandling this in every way possible. 

Central BKK.....price 26,000 pm....offered 15,000....settled at 17,000.

 

When our contract is up the landlord is happy to accept weekly rent, no notice.

[CharlieH]

The landlord may well have done the OP  a favor and shot himself in the foot ! The OP coukd well end up somewhere superior for less having been made to look by the landlords stupidity.

[MrJ2U]

20 hours ago, johng said:

If the scallywag says 20%  increase then offer 20%  less than you are paying now...there must be thousands of empty places to rent around the area now  anyone asking for a price increase is just  "taking the Mickey"

 

There will also be a lot of "men with a truck"   ready to help you move  for a very small  consideration.

Though it would be wise to find a few alternative places to rent before  putting the ultimatum to the landlord

 

You'll probably find a better place for cheaper.  He may raise it again next year.

 

It's such a bad time to raise someones rent during a pandemic it shows how callous one can be.

 

Despite the Herculean task check a few places out to rent.  Then like the other reader said offer 20% less.

There going to find it hard to rent with so many empty rentals now available due to COVID-19.

 

Good luck!

Moving is a pain.

 

[spidermike007]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Central BKK.....price 26,000 pm....offered 15,000....settled at 17,000.

 

When our contract is up the landlord is happy to accept weekly rent, no notice.

 

That is what I am talking about. This is the time to play hardball, and negotiate like your life depended on it. There are crazy deals to be had right now, but you have to be tough with your landlord, or your prospective landlord. I know many people who are getting rent reductions. The market is crazy soft. For both rentals and sales. However, alot of sellers have not accepted the reality yet. The ones with rental properties have. Most of them. At least the smarter ones. Not the buffalos. 

[mickyr55]

20 hours ago, johng said:

If the scallywag says 20%  increase then offer 20%  less than you are paying now...there must be thousands of empty places to rent around the area now  anyone asking for a price increase is just  "taking the Mickey"

 

There will also be a lot of "men with a truck"   ready to help you move  for a very small  consideration.

Though it would be wise to find a few alternative places to rent before  putting the ultimatum to the landlord

 

I have just negotiated 10% decrease with my landlady and the way she reacted I wish I had asked for 20% she was truly delighted, and as for the hassle of moving remember labour is the most available and cheapest commodity in Thailand.

[Dart12]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Since 2009 there have been no rent increases in Chiang Mai.

Only one landlord ever asked for more (7k to 8k), but I moved out and the house was empty for the next year.

Since COVID rent prices tend to go down, as half the rental properties are empty.

 

I'd move on and try to get a cheaper rent for a better property.

what size/ quality place does that get you there if I may ask?

[Tracyb]

The last time I was renting..... three years ago, landlord asked for a big increase.  I declined, moved out 30 days later.  Call his bluff.  Find another place.  Hire people to move you.  Alternatively, offer a long term lease at a 10% reduction. 

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

Only you know if cheaper rent and ,maybe a better place, is worth the hassle of moving.

 

I would not advise to offer 20% less, usually not good to <deleted> off a possible landlord.

 

But finding alternative places is a great idea. You might even find a place you think is worth the hassle. When you tell the landlord you are moving she, he might offer to keep the rent the same. But understand they will be itching to raise it. Up to you to evaluate that scenario.

 

Buona Fortuna.

I would offer 20 to 40% less, as long as he is prepared to move. Fear of offending the landlord, at this time, should be the last concern in the world.

 

With the mess the sabateur officials have imposed on this nation, all bets are off. This is a new world. And Thailand is in for a major world of hurt. Negotiate like a madman. No fear. Offense is not an issue!

[tlandtday]

He needs you to buy him a new car.  Give him notice and I hope you get your deposit back.

[Nanaplaza666]

21 hours ago, falangUK said:

Before this proposed 20% hike >>

Currently paying 100% more compared to my immediate neighbour, 87% more compared to other neighbours.

last rent increase was 5 years ago.

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

Now there's the reason why he/she might want you out .

[Cake Monster]

22 hours ago, johng said:

If the scallywag says 20%  increase then offer 20%  less than you are paying now...there must be thousands of empty places to rent around the area now  anyone asking for a price increase is just  "taking the Mickey"

 

There will also be a lot of "men with a truck"   ready to help you move  for a very small  consideration.

Though it would be wise to find a few alternative places to rent before  putting the ultimatum to the landlord

 

If you do decide to move, find a Guy with a large enough Truck, add a few of his Friends , and you will surprised how quickly and efficiently these Guys will have you in your new place.

If the distance is nor too great, then the costs are fairly low

 

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, Dart12 said:

what size/ quality place does that get you there if I may ask?

3 bedroom detached bungalow with small garden in gated community.

1/2 furnished.

[BusyB]

Isn't there something like a tenants association in Thailand?

 

Where you pay a modest subscription, get free legal advice and legal cover to go with it?

 

That lobbies for tenants rights etc.?

Edited July 4, 2021 by BusyB

[EricTh]

There are many empty houses now. You can move out.

[Exploring Thailand]

3 hours ago, Straight8 said:

Problem is, if this gets out of hand, & the owner is Thai, you know, the loss of face and all, OP has sweet FA of getting his deposit back as a form of payback.

Yeah, it was slightly tongue in cheek.  If the OP can find a better, cheaper place, and then go back to the current landlord and say something like "I'd really like to stay here but I can't afford to pay increase rent. I've had a look around and found these places...". The landlord might be persuaded to drop the idea of an increase, but pushing for a reduction is probably hoping for a lot. 

[xylophone]

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Find an alternative place you like, then say no to the rent increase, you then have leverage

Not in Chiang Mai, but similar M.O. with me here, whereby I was paying top rent for my small apartment when Covid struck and quite a few expats moved out, and a couple of friends found some cheap apartments, so I went looking for something slightly bigger and cheaper than I've got.

 

I got a great offer on one which was quite a bit larger than my apartment, however thinking about it I was almost like one of the family to the people who owned the apartments I was in and there were lots of benefits to that, especially as I'm living on my own.

 

So I spoke to the lady owner and said that I had been looking at other apartments and had found a very nice one which I was keen on, and she didn't ask the price, however she did mention that she had also seen other places for rent much cheaper than hers, so offered to lower my rent by about 40%!!!!!! 

 

So I immediately jumped at the chance and she was pleased that I was staying, and so was I, so it was a win-win.

 

Moral of the story is you have nothing to lose by negotiating, provided it's done in a friendly fashion.

[chuang]

23 hours ago, falangUK said:

Before this proposed 20% hike >>

Currently paying 100% more compared to my immediate neighbour, 87% more compared to other neighbours.

last rent increase was 5 years ago.

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

How much.. stop the mumbo jumbo..

[scotinsiam]

I was in a similar situation, I saw the condo I was renting advertised by my Thai landlord on facebook marketplace at a 20% higher rental than I was paying. I asked about it and told them I would move out to allow him to do it.

The building is only about 1/3rd occupied currently and he has no takers for the unit.

I am in a new cheaper & bigger place with a great view :) happy days.

 

[PMEL]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:51 PM, falangUK said:

Before this proposed 20% hike >>

Currently paying 100% more compared to my immediate neighbour, 87% more compared to other neighbours.

last rent increase was 5 years ago.

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

I can't believe you haven't offered your neighbor's landlord a 20% increase. They'll move; and, all you'll have to do is lift your stuff over the adjoining fence. Minimal moving costs; and, an 80% decrease in rent.  

[khunano]

On 7/3/2021 at 10:51 AM, falangUK said:

Before this proposed 20% hike >>

Currently paying 100% more compared to my immediate neighbour, 87% more compared to other neighbours.

last rent increase was 5 years ago.

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

Of course you need to pay more now since you improved the property and its value has thus increased ;-) 

[NoshowJones]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:55 PM, cmarshall said:

Start by forgetting the idea of a "fair" rent.  No one wants a fair rent.  Renters want to pay less and landlords want to collect more.  We had difficulties last year getting some changes for our apartment which we had been renting for nine years.  Landlord refused to agree to requested changes so we moved to another unit in the same building for 30% less rent.  Our former apartment is still unrented, of course, because foreigners are not coming to Thailand. 

 

Thais think of property as a store of value more than as a source of income.  Strange, but that's how they see it.  And landlords consider themselves socially superior to renters.  So, sometimes they make stupid choices.

You do know that the Thai IQ is only about 90%.

[Sydebolle]

My unimportant grain of salt to the query:

Look for alternative housing soonest possible, move out in time and ensure that you use up your deposit as last payment(s) for the rent. You will not see anything of your deposit most likely and then it is always nice to be in the driver's seat. 

With the latter I mean that pay up utilities as they are billed and stand to any other contractual payment obligations (maintenance, garbage whatever else) but ensure that you do not have to wait for a refund of your deposit. 

Good luck! Harsh words but the only way to teach those leeches a lesson ...... 

[Scott Tracy]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:51 PM, falangUK said:

Before this proposed 20% hike >>

Currently paying 100% more compared to my immediate neighbour, 87% more compared to other neighbours.

last rent increase was 5 years ago.

also we have invested in improving the bathroom, roof, etc

 

'invested' in a rental property, by making alterations? One hopes it was approved by the landlord in writing and you have it notarised.  Sticky wicket, otherwise, I would suggest. If you leave, you may be asked to restore the accommodation to its original state.

 

One also.wonders when you found out how much other renters were paying, and why nothing was done about it before.

[Presnock]

Just google Large trucks and labor to move furniture to another house.  Too many available, ask for pictures of truck - last week we sold furniture to friends in BKK and the truck was fully covered and opened on both sides as well as the back so easy loading.  Laborers were readily available.   Friends advised it was fairly cheap!  

 

[connda]

6 hours ago, Dart12 said:

how do you advertiise or find people to do this kind of work?  Any of it...regular cleaning, cooking, etc that is not a company type cleaning biz.

Don't have Thai friends and acquaintances?  I have Thai friends, family. and acquaintance.   I ask around to see who's looking for work. 

[khunPer]

On 7/3/2021 at 10:18 AM, falangUK said:

What is the average % rent increase in Thailand and in Chiang Mai?

Whatever a landlord can get.

On 7/3/2021 at 10:18 AM, falangUK said:

Is there a way to calculate rent increase per annum?
What would be a fair amount?

To my knowledge rent is whatever can be greed between landlord (letter) and hirer, and when an agreed period ends the parties negotiate rent for a new period.

 

A fair amount is the amount that makes both parties happy with renewing the agreement for another period.

You can find the law for hire property HERE.

Quote

Section 537. A hire of property is a contract whereby a person, called the letter, agrees to let another person, called the hirer, have the use or benefit of a property for a limited period of time and the hirer agrees to pay rent therefore.

[ ... ]
Section 564. A contract of hire is extinguished at the end of the agreed period without notice.
[ ... ]
Section 566. If no period is agreed upon or presumed, either party may terminate the contract of hire at the end of each period for the payment of rent, provided that notice of at least one rent period is given, but no more than two months notice need be given.

[ ... ]

Section 570. If, at the end of the agreed period, the hirer remains in possession of the property and the lessor knowing thereof does not object, the parties are deemed to have renewed the contract for an indefinite period.

 

[connda]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Prices are dropping daily. Give them an ultimatum. Not only am I not paying an increase, I want you to drop the rent by 4,000 baht per month, starting August 1st. How does that sound? 

 

The rental market is very slow now, and alot of landlords are hurting. A friend of mine just moved from a tiny, but a nice place with a seaview on Samui, to a much nicer place that is 3br./2ba. His rent dropped 3,000 baht a month, for the far larger house.

 

The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by 40%, or more over the next 5 years.

 

A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 28,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent or sell anything, at this time.

 

Another good friend told me that a girlfriend of his works as a senior level executive for one of Thailand's biggest developers. She told him that they have reduced their building by 90% of what it was pre-Covid, which was around 100 developments a year. They have shut down 90 projects, and this was before the govt. came in and shut down the building sites.

 

By the time all of this is over, I suspect it will be worse than the 1997 economic crisis, for Thailand. They are mishandling this in every way possible. 

I was just going to say.  What most people don't grasp here is that this economic destruction is 100% a function of government policy, and the government will double-down before they ease up.  I've been making predictions and saving them for a year after I post them.  Much like we'll all still be wearing masks come July 4th 2022. Or like the real estate market is going to take a major beating, property owners are going to lose their properties to the banks, and the banks themselves will be screaming for bailouts from the IMF before this is over.  The government will just look smug, wash their hands, and say, "What can we do?"
"Ummm, take your knee off of the neck of the country maybe and stop killing small and medium business as a start?" 

This doesn't end anytime soon.  If it does I'll eat my sombrero and I'll be ecstatic.  But I don't think my sombrero has anything to be worried about.

[connda]

8 minutes ago, connda said:

I was just going to say.  What most people don't grasp here is that this economic destruction is 100% a function of government policy, and the government will double-down before they ease up.  I've been making predictions and saving them for a year after I post them.  Much like we'll all still be wearing masks come July 4th 2022. Or like the real estate market is going to take a major beating, property owners are going to lose their properties to the banks, and the banks themselves will be screaming for bailouts from the IMF before this is over.  The government will just look smug, wash their hands, and say, "What can we do?"
"Ummm, take your knee off of the neck of the country maybe and stop killing small and medium business as a start?" 

This doesn't end anytime soon.  If it does I'll eat my sombrero and I'll be ecstatic.  But I don't think my sombrero has anything to be worried about.

FYI, the Thai central bank just purchased 90 tons of gold.  They obviously are preparing for some sort of economic hit even though this downturn in properties is actually deflationary. Maybe they plan to debase the THB?  Who knows.  None of these people care an iota for commoners.  The lot of them are soul-less, wealth harvesting machines completely devoid of a shred of humanity.