Last month in the Consular team - June 2021

[British Consular Team]

Here's a quick recap of the Consular team’s work in June.  

• We were able to do our first citizenship ceremony at the new Embassy building, and the first ceremony in a very long time. HMA Brian Davidson officiated with support from the Consular team. 
• Our Driving in Thailand guide has been reviewed and updated. Many more Living in Thailand guides are in the pipeline as part of our work to make sure British people in Thailand have access to accurate and up to date information.  
• Ever wonder how many Brits are currently living in Thailand? Latest update we had from Thai Immigration showed that there are more than 49,000 Brits living here. Can you guess the top 5 provinces? 

• We continue to work on getting the most up-to-date information for the British community on vaccines and then sharing this via our weekly Vaccine Bulletin.  We now have over 370 subscribers. If you are interested in receiving the bulletin, send a message to [email protected] . 
• We have also been supporting the Ambassador as he continues to talk to Thai authorities about the importance of equal access to an efficient vaccination programme. 

 

Moving on to casework, here is a snapshot of the kind of work we have been doing:  

• Last week we dealt with a complex domestic abuse case involving two vulnerable children.  
• We also worked with London to help a mother and 1 year old baby who had been subjected to prolonged domestic abuse. Eventually she was able to get to Bangkok and then return to the UK safely.  
• Our team conducted a video call which linked up a severely sick detainee with TB, the medical team at the prison and the detainee’s two UK-based daughters.  
• 36 British nationals have passed away this month. We have been busy providing support to families and other next of kin.   
• We worked with the Immigration Detention Centre to find a care facility for two extremely vulnerable detainees to receive the medical treatment and ongoing support they need. 

[Excel]

Shame you could not report on any positive work regarding British nationals getting covid vaccinations. My response just received this morning under the FOA indicates that many people both Embassy staff and those belonging to NGO's here  in Thailand received, along with their families vaccination at the expense of the British Taxpayer.  What a shame that many of the rest of us British Taxpayers are ignored whilst non British Taxpayers were "looked after by my elected government. Care to comment why non British taxpayers here in thailand, working for NGOs were vaccinated at the expense of British taxpayers, of which I and many others are also, yet we British taxpayers have been completely ignored ? My relatives in the UK are now taking up the cudgels of this disgrace with their MPs so hopefully exposure of this will eventually fall on these shortcomings. Too late for many of us of course given the Delta spread in Thailand as we may well be dead, but future generations may well benefit.

[Tmoney]

Couldn't agree more, Excel.

I have just received this reply verbatim from the British Embassy in Bangkok following a query about Covid vaccinations I sent to them recently.

(It took almost two weeks for the reply to arrive).

It is important to note that/We expect British people to take responsibility for themselves and their safety while overseas, which includes taking out adequate health insurance for their individual needs.

The British Embassy is unable to ensure your safety and security whilst you are in Thailand because this is the responsibility of the government and authorities here.

I am sorry that you are not receiving the response that you require; however this is the current stance of the UK government.  

A Disgraceful response

 

(Note the different type sizes, clearly all copied and pasted - not a personal response).

 

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Couldn't agree more, Excel.

I have just received this reply verbatim from the British Embassy in Bangkok following a query about Covid vaccinations I sent to them recently.

(It took almost two weeks for the reply to arrive).

It is important to note that/We expect British people to take responsibility for themselves and their safety while overseas, which includes taking out adequate health insurance for their individual needs.

 

The British Embassy is unable to ensure your safety and security whilst you are in Thailand because this is the responsibility of the government and authorities here.

 

I am sorry that you are not receiving the response that you require; however this is the current stance of the UK government.  

 

 

A Disgraceful response

 

(Note the different type sizes, clearly all copied and pasted - not a personal response).

 

Well when you have an Ambassador that appears to have fallen short of normal expectations then I assume it is only reasonable to assume his staff will be inadequately motivated also. What a disgrace that certain people with non British nationality received vaccinations at the expense of the British taxpayer yet  those of us who have paid UK taxes for decades, and many who even fought for the country, were completely ignored by these people whom in my opinion uphold nothing regarding the British spirit of "fair play" and equality.

[Tony M]

28 minutes ago, Excel said:

Shame you could not report on any positive work regarding British nationals getting covid vaccinations. My response just received this morning under the FOA indicates that many people both Embassy staff and those belonging to NGO's here  in Thailand received, along with their families vaccination at the expense of the British Taxpayer.  What a shame that many of the rest of us British Taxpayers are ignored whilst non British Taxpayers were "looked after by my elected government. Care to comment why non British taxpayers here in thailand, working for NGOs were vaccinated at the expense of British taxpayers, of which I and many others are also, yet we British taxpayers have been completely ignored ? My relatives in the UK are now taking up the cudgels of this disgrace with their MPs so hopefully exposure of this will eventually fall on these shortcomings. Too late for many of us of course given the Delta spread in Thailand as we may well be dead, but future generations may well benefit.

 

I asked for similar details in another thread, but have not seen any response from the Consulate.  Are you able to share the FOA response with us ?  Who, exactly, was vaccinated at our expense ?

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Tony M said:

 

I asked for similar details in another thread, but have not seen any response from the Consulate.  Are you able to share the FOA response with us ?  Who, exactly, was vaccinated at our expense ?

Unfortunately I think that to share that information directly would cast into doubt future responses under the FOA as I assume it was given to me as a matter of confidentiality as I am a private citizen rather than a media outlet making such a request. .  However given that I received this information I would anticipate that should your request that directly you will will receive the self same response. I specifically asked 6 questions but I did not ask who was specifically vaccinated as it was of no interest to me.  I did ask however he numbers of non British personnel and non British taxpayers whom had been vaccinated at the expense of the British taxpayer. I was denied  actual numbers but it was confirmed that "some" had received vaccinations at the British taxpayers expense.  A disgrace and two faced ? you bet it is in my opinion anyway

[champers]

Policy on vaccinating Brits overseas is determined in London. The embassy is passing on information of what is out of their control.

Maybe an online petition of expats could be sent to the embassy for them to pass on to London. 

I am not sure who could organise a petition or even where to start. Expats don't really have any leverage to give London cause for concern.

[Tony M]

10 minutes ago, Excel said:

Unfortunately I think that to share that information directly would cast into doubt future responses under the FOA as I assume it was given to me as a matter of confidentiality as I am a private citizen rather than a media outlet making such a request. .  However given that I received this information I would anticipate that should your request that directly you will will receive the self same response. I specifically asked 6 questions but I did not ask who was specifically vaccinated as it was of no interest to me.  I did ask however he numbers of non British personnel and non British taxpayers whom had been vaccinated at the expense of the British taxpayer. I was denied  actual numbers but it was confirmed that "some" had received vaccinations at the British taxpayers expense.  A disgrace and two faced ? you bet it is in my opinion anyway

 

I think that, if the information has been given to you, then it is in the public domain. If they didn't want anyone but you to see it, they wouldn't have released it.

 

This is government policy :

 

Public interest factors in favour of release.

3.1 Factors likely to argue in favour of disclosure will include furthering public understanding of key policy proposals or decisions, as well as promoting accountability and transparency about the decisions taken by public authorities and about the use of public money. There is also an accepted public interest in allowing individuals to understand decisions which affect their lives or which have an effect on public health and safety. However it is also accepted that what the public are interested in and what is in the public interest are not necessarily the same. Broadly, the release of information serves the public interest if it will enhance accountability or prevent harm.

3.2 Examples of the types of information it is in the public interest to release include: Enhancing Accountability • Information relating to matters of public debate; public spending decisions; or performance monitoring; • Letting people know the basis for decisions and fostering participation in public life • Information that illustrates and preserves procedural fairness or means that justice is seen to be done

[theoldgit]

Posts in breach of Forum Rules removed, along with measured responses.

 

 

[jayboy]

I think the position is best explained in the words of a prominent Slough based office manager.

 

David Brent:
Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that your country is taking no responsibility for your welfare and some of you might become quite ill. Those of you who are concerned about your health may have to relocate to the UK, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been vaccinated, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

4 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

36 British nationals have passed away this month. We have been busy providing support to families and other next of kin.   

 

May I respectfully ask how many of these were covid related? (unvaccinated older persons)

[Aussieroaming]

Come on British Embassy....covid vaccines for your nationals are the priority, so wake up.

[blackcab]

A troll post has been removed.

[Tony M]

The Home Secretary's Nationality and Borders Bill 2021 proposes "sanctions" on countries who do not cooperate with the UK in taking back failed asylum applicants.  The "sanctions" will  give the government the ability to block visas for visitors from countries that the Home Secretary believes are refusing to cooperate in taking back rejected asylum seekers or offenders.  The USA already has similar legislation.  Would it be possible for senior Diplomats to lobby the UK government for similar legislation to be put in place for governments that discriminate against (vulnerable) British citizens, and to suggest to the Thai government that vulnerable British (and other ex-pat nationals) are treated equally to Thai nationals ?  I would suspect that the possibility of no visas being issued, or increased prices for visas for countries that insist on discriminating against other nationalities, might concentrate the minds of the Thai government in treating all people equally during this pandemic.

[Eff1n2ret]

3 hours ago, Tony M said:

The Home Secretary's Nationality and Borders Bill 2021 proposes "sanctions" on countries who do not cooperate with the UK in taking back failed asylum applicants.  The "sanctions" will  give the government the ability to block visas for visitors from countries that the Home Secretary believes are refusing to cooperate in taking back rejected asylum seekers or offenders.  The USA already has similar legislation.  Would it be possible for senior Diplomats to lobby the UK government for similar legislation to be put in place for governments that discriminate against (vulnerable) British citizens, and to suggest to the Thai government that vulnerable British (and other ex-pat nationals) are treated equally to Thai nationals ?  I would suspect that the possibility of no visas being issued, or increased prices for visas for countries that insist on discriminating against other nationalities, might concentrate the minds of the Thai government in treating all people equally during this pandemic.

I don't know if that's tongue in cheek, Tony, but whilst some posters have reported discrimination at a local level it doesn't seem to be Thai Government policy, and locally here I don't think there's much discrimination, there don't seem to be vaccines either for Thais or foreigners.

In any  case you can bet that the Foreign Office would fight tooth and nail against such a suggestion, as they will against Priti Flamingo's proposal and did against all previous initiatives which involved them conveying a nasty message on behalf of the Home Office. I well remember the period after the Morecambe Bay disaster (illegal Chinese cockle-pickers drowned en masse) when Blair sent his crony Lord Triesman to China to tackle exactly the problem Ms Patel is now confronting. The fool came back with a wonderful agreement to take back (I forget how many) Chinese illegals every month, but did nothing about the requirement to establish the exact identity, address, everything, of the returnees, which remained the responsibility of poor saps like me - an impossible task, so nothing changed at all.

In contrast i have always admired Thailand's willingness to take responsibility for their own citizens, and I never had any problem in removing Thai illegals or overstayers, even though I had no idea whether the name and address they supplied to me was genuine. For that reason i have long believed it should be easier for Thais to get visas. The carrot can work as well as the stick.

[Tony M]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I don't know if that's tongue in cheek, Tony, but whilst some posters have reported discrimination at a local level it doesn't seem to be Thai Government policy, and locally here I don't think there's much discrimination, there don't seem to be vaccines either for Thais or foreigners.

In any  case you can bet that the Foreign Office would fight tooth and nail against such a suggestion, as they will against Priti Flamingo's proposal and did against all previous initiatives which involved them conveying a nasty message on behalf of the Home Office. I well remember the period after the Morecambe Bay disaster (illegal Chinese cockle-pickers drowned en masse) when Blair sent his crony Lord Triesman to China to tackle exactly the problem Ms Patel is now confronting. The fool came back with a wonderful agreement to take back (I forget how many) Chinese illegals every month, but did nothing about the requirement to establish the exact identity, address, everything, of the returnees, which remained the responsibility of poor saps like me - an impossible task, so nothing changed at all.

In contrast i have always admired Thailand's willingness to take responsibility for their own citizens, and I never had any problem in removing Thai illegals or overstayers, even though I had no idea whether the name and address they supplied to me was genuine. For that reason i have long believed it should be easier for Thais to get visas. The carrot can work as well as the stick.

 

Yes, John, a little tongue in cheek, as we both know that it will achieve absolutely zero. Just venting a little, and actually hoping to get some kind (any kind) of response from the Consul(ate), as they seem to have retreated behind the barricades. 

[British Consular Team]

On 7/7/2021 at 1:18 PM, Tony M said:

 

Yes, John, a little tongue in cheek, as we both know that it will achieve absolutely zero. Just venting a little, and actually hoping to get some kind (any kind) of response from the Consul(ate), as they seem to have retreated behind the barricades. 

As you can see from the update on activity at the top of this topic, we are not behind the barricades, we are busy providing support to BNs where we can. But if you can clarify what the question is that you want a response to, we'll try to answer. 

[Tony M]

1 hour ago, British Consular Team said:

As you can see from the update on activity at the top of this topic, we are not behind the barricades, we are busy providing support to BNs where we can. But if you can clarify what the question is that you want a response to, we'll try to answer. 

That would be the sentence with a question mark at the end, I guess.  The rest of the post explains the background to the question. As you are no doubt aware there is a groundswell of feeling that non-Thais are not being treated equally to Thais at the moment (or at any time, in fact). That is made harder to take when we see how Thai nationals are treated in the UK and other countries. I have Thai friends visiting the UK at the moment, and they have been vaccinated (free, of course). Yes, my post is a little tongue-in-cheek, as we all know that little or nothing is likely to happen to assist those of us in need. However, the threat of a degree of "reciprocity" and/or "sanctions" might concentrate the minds of those in charge here in Thailand. For the sake of transparency, both Eff1n2ret and myself are former British diplomats, so we have some idea of how things work. Unfortunately, as we know, you are the face of the UK in Thailand, but good to see you raising your head about the barricades from time to time.  I have also submitted other questions in another thread, which you will probably also see.