Details of vaccine procurement cannot be made public because contracts say so – DPM Wissanu

[norbra]

A link to Moderna press releases https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases

[chalawaan]

34 minutes ago, phills2k1 said:

I know I'm being redundant at this point, but I truly can't believe that it took less than 6 months of living in Thailand to make me long for the patent lies, ineptitude and corruption of the US government

 

 

Its so funny, I can send every news story on here to friends who themselves visit annually, yet they don't seem to get the message.

 

One guy in Maryland is convinced he'll get in to his beloved Pattaya if he "just shows up". 

 

What does it take for tourists to understand this LoS is more or less North Korea with better food at this point?

[connda]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam explained today (Tuesday) that details of all vaccine procurement contracts, signed between the country’s Ministry of Public Health and vaccine producers, either for government inoculation programs or on behalf of private companies, cannot be made public because the contracts say so.

Welcome to New Normal where governments and corporations work together to keep the public (who funds purchases) in the dark via contractual agreement.
There is an -ism that defines this type of arrangement.  It bodes not well for the future of the public as government opacity is codified. 
We are quickly moving into very dark times.

[connda]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

He insisted that COVID-19 vaccines are a sensitive issue, unlike other products, because the producers or the vendors, have the bargaining power.

Therefore keep the public in the dark so that there is no public outrage when shady deals rife with the potential for corruption are struck between corporate and government entities. 
Dark times ahead as governments and corporation work hand-in-hand to keep business dealing completely opaque.
Slowly but surely marching into a future where the public are simply economic pawns for wealth harvesting and eventually repression should they rise up and complain.

[Neeranam]

23 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

I do not believe this, at all. 

 

Corporations have to be transparent, especially when dealing with governments.

 

I believe it, government have contracts which, as the DPM says, can't be disclosed to the public, for obvious reasons.  

[Neeranam]

21 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

you're surprised at the actions of Big Pharma? really?

Not only is he ignorant of the Western corruption, he has the nerve to blame the Thai government. Basher will bash. 

[Dont confuse me]

What a load of rubbish! 

I'd love to be in a position to challenge them to produce the contracts,  see exactly the size of the order and the cost which I bet doesn't match up with the monies taken from the coffers 

[Burma Bill]

7 hours ago, ronster said:

One for you , one for me

Yes indeed. They are probably scared the contents of "brown envelopes" might be revealed!!

[from the home of CC]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Not only is he ignorant of the Western corruption, he has the nerve to blame the Thai government. Basher will bash. 

I've noticed many folks who stereotype tend to be a little light on being factual..

[placnx]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:29 PM, Thomas J said:

Now there are two sides to that contract.  The vaccine company and the Thai government.  Now which side would you guess required that non disclosure clause. 

Hint:  There would be no reason for the vaccine companies to require it. 

Bear in mind that governments where the vaccine makers are situated can have a look to know the contract details and evaluate the truthfulness of the representations in the media. From then appropriate policy adjustments can be taken.

[placnx]

12 hours ago, hioctane said:

Sorry, private (US) companies are under no obligation to disclose anything. If they are publicly traded, they might be required to disclose certain financials. 

 

It is pretty obvious why they have an NDA. They invested huge amounts of money in the R&D of this vaccine. The pricing between countries vary. Probably based on their ability to pay. Of course they would want this kept secret. They don’t want countries to see what country A is paying vs country B.

If the US Senate or House subpoenas Pfizer or Moderna, they can be required to disclose proprietary information such as contract details in a non-public session. I suppose that they would hand over the info before a subpoena is voted on.

[kennw]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:19 PM, mtls2005 said:

I do not believe this, at all. 

 

Corporations have to be transparent, especially when dealing with governments.

 

To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

 

 

Bogus. Only someone trying to hide something would say this.

 

Even if it does, amend the contract.

 

And this guy is the legal whiz? Honestly.

 

 

 

Yes, I'll stipulate that riders may be confidential, esp. re: pricing and discounts.

 

 

Contracts dont write themselves, if it has a confidentially clause it is because someone put it there and the signaturies to the contract did not object. 

[scorecard]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:19 PM, mtls2005 said:

I do not believe this, at all. 

 

Corporations have to be transparent, especially when dealing with governments.

 

To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

 

 

Bogus. Only someone trying to hide something would say this.

 

Even if it does, amend the contract.

 

And this guy is the legal whiz? Honestly.

 

 

 

Yes, I'll stipulate that riders may be confidential, esp. re: pricing and discounts.

 

 

It's public money, it's taxpayers funds, whichever way you want to label these funds they are the property of all the citizens of Thailand.

 

Therefore the public/the owners of these funds have very right to know how they are used. 

 

What really worries me is what 'commissions' are somewhere in this puzzle and who gets these 'commissions'.

 

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

What really worries me is what 'commissions' are somewhere in this puzzle and who gets these 'commissions'.

Plenty of good guesses as to the recipients, as TIT after all!!

[Uroller]

As my 7 year old daughter would say “whatever”

[IAMHERE]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:29 AM, Thomas J said:

Hint:  There would be no reason for the vaccine companies to require it. 

The vaccine companies sell doses at different prices to different customers. Certainly the vaccine companies have reason to keep their sales figures secretive, just so they can squeeze more money out of other customers. 

[natway09]

Little surprised that many on here have a dig at Thailand only on this one.

Big Pharma have been ripping the world off as long as I can remember.

Thank God for countries that have made "generic" products

 (Thailand) as well. Saved me thousands & my Dr says the same but obviously quietly

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

NDAs are very common in the business world for many legitimate reasons and i don't find it unusual or suspicious at all that these purchase agreements would be subject to them. They will have carve-outs for situations where either party becomes legally compelled to divulge details such as when government agencies come calling for tax, FCPA compliance and other regulatory or legal issues. 

[placeholder]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:29 PM, Thomas J said:

Now there are two sides to that contract.  The vaccine company and the Thai government.  Now which side would you guess required that non disclosure clause. 

Hint:  There would be no reason for the vaccine companies to require it. 

You sure about that?

Canada contractually bound to keep COVID-19 vaccine contracts secret, Anand says

As provinces implore the federal government to make its coronavirus vaccine contracts public, Procurement Minister Anita Anand has confirmed that the entirety of the deals are subject to confidentiality clauses.

However, Anand said she’s trying to push back on these clauses in conversations with the pharmaceutical companies.

“The confidentiality clauses apply to the contracts as a whole,” Anand told the House of Commons industry committee on Thursday.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7623525/coronavirus-vaccine-contract-confidentiality-clause-anita-anand/

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

Bear in mind that governments where the vaccine makers are situated can have a look to know the contract details and evaluate the truthfulness of the representations in the media. From then appropriate policy adjustments can be taken.

Well I will eat a little crow.  Another post said that it was not only Thailand but the non-disclosure clause was part of the standard contract with the vaccine companies.  In thinking further about it, the only reason I can imagine for the vaccine companies to want it is to not disclose to all countries what they were paying and use that as some sort of bargaining leverage.  If that is the case that would presume that there is not a standard pricing and everything is a negotiated price which I find to be a stretch.  More likely, the vaccine companies know that the various countries don't want it disclosed what they are paying for the vaccine and by them making it part of the "standard" agreement with them, it gives the countries a perfect cover.  They can point to it and say, no we would disclose but the vaccine companies won't let us. 

Mold doesn't grow well when exposed to sun.  The same is true with shining the sun on countries and their use of public monies whether that is for vaccine or any other purpose. 

[bang saen guy]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I believe it, government have contracts which, as the DPM says, can't be disclosed to the public, for obvious reasons.  

Not really so obvious to the ignorant few of us that have no experience with NDAs required with Thai government contracts. Precisely which sections require an NDA to be signed by the 100s of people that will have access? 

 

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

The vaccine companies sell doses at different prices to different customers. Certainly the vaccine companies have reason to keep their sales figures secretive, just so they can squeeze more money out of other customers. 

And just who gives you the "inside scoop" to the pricing at the various drug companies.   I have worked at major companies.  There is always an established price list and some discount for volume.  I seriously doubt that they depart much if any between identical doses ordered between countries.  Yes the vaccine companies have this non-disclosure clause.  I 'think" it is because they know it provides the perfect cover for the various countries since they can point the finger at the drug companies and say "see we would love to disclose but the drug companies won't let us.  The drug companies know they are providing cover for them and more than willing for big customers to play the role of the bad guy. 

[herfiehandbag]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:19 PM, mtls2005 said:

 

And this guy is the legal whiz? Honestly.

He makes Peter Mandelson, Anthony Lyndon Blair's sidekick from the days of "Things can only get better", (you will remember him if you are British - "Spitting Image" used to depict him as having a head which rotated through 360 degrees) look like a paragon of po;itical honesty and transparency.

 

I fully expect that the "skim" on these purchases, entirely internal within Thailand before any payments or orders are placed with these corporations, is phenomenal.

Edited July 7, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[Stargeezr]

Have you ever seen anything that is transparent when lawyers get involved.  Me neither.

Geezer

[Artisi]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:19 PM, mtls2005 said:

I do not believe this, at all. 

 

Corporations have to be transparent, especially when dealing with governments.

 

To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

 

 

Bogus. Only someone trying to hide something would say this.

 

Even if it does, amend the contract.

 

And this guy is the legal whiz? Honestly.

 

 

 

Yes, I'll stipulate that riders may be confidential, esp. re: pricing and discounts.

 

 

Assume lunch boxes and brown envelopes are also confidential. 

[Andycoops]

More corrupt BS to cover up their greed, while people are dying in ever larger numbers, to inflate their offshore accounts.

[Artisi]

17 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I believe it, government have contracts which, as the DPM says, can't be disclosed to the public, for obvious reasons.  

The reasons being - um um um, sorry that's just between us. 

[BE88]

 

No news on the "secret" agreements that are not secret for other western countries, in reality the pharmaceutical companies want to supply the vaccines without guarantee of success and that none of the vaccinated can sue for damages against them for the consequences of these experimental vaccines.

[mtls2005]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

Therefore the public/the owners of these funds have very right to know how they are used. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

But as many of us quickly found out researching this issue, we see that most governments have entered into these contracts somewhat unwillingly. They have sacrificed normally acceptable levels of transparency for expediency. A trade-off I accept.

 

I was shocked, and still am, that this has occurred - but once I saw the EU and Canada were dealing with the backlash on this (Canada has released redacted versions of all vaccine contracts, heavily redacted) -  I see that Thailand had no option but to cave and suck up to vaccine suppliers and their agents.

 

That said, budget figures for AZ and Sinovac have been made public here, perhaps unwittingly, during budget debates in Parliament. These reveal the unit price budgeted.

 

The regime and parliament can shield figures for "national defense purposes", so that the public is unaware of expenditures on military items. If this is available, it is leaked, released by the military or discerned from the foreign supplier's press release.

 

 

[placnx]

17 hours ago, Thomas J said:

And just who gives you the "inside scoop" to the pricing at the various drug companies.   I have worked at major companies.  There is always an established price list and some discount for volume.  I seriously doubt that they depart much if any between identical doses ordered between countries.  Yes the vaccine companies have this non-disclosure clause.  I 'think" it is because they know it provides the perfect cover for the various countries since they can point the finger at the drug companies and say "see we would love to disclose but the drug companies won't let us.  The drug companies know they are providing cover for them and more than willing for big customers to play the role of the bad guy. 

Companies like moderna and Pfizer use differential pricing depending on the ability of countries to pay - ethical considerations. Some countries in the middle might wonder why certain others are paying less, so NDA has a reason. That being said, I'm certain that the US government can look at their pricing, confidentially of course.