Locating Foreign Ownership Condos in BKK

[Lextsy1]

I have a cheap condo in Pattaya and whilst looking for it found it relatively easy to find foreign ownership condos using Hipflat. Looking in Bangkok around Pathum wan area i am unable to find any which are foreign ownership, non leasehold. Does anyone know any tricks to easily finding foreign ownership , freehold condos in BKK?

[Pravda]

As if by foreign you mean Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese and HK you can safely assume that every single building in the area has at least a dozen foreign owners. The best thing would be to go on living insider and contact the agent for every building you are interested in. 

[blackcab]

Why is finding a condo owned by a non-Thai citizen so mportant?

 

Do you realise you can buy a condo owned by a Thai citizen as long as the foreign ownership ratio is not over 49 per cent?

 

In Bangkok, the foreign ownership ratio is almost never exceeded, which is why condos are not advertised in this way.

[Lextsy1]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

Why is finding a condo owned by a non-Thai citizen so mportant?

 

Do you realise you can buy a condo owned by a Thai citizen as long as the foreign ownership ratio is not over 49 per cent?

 

In Bangkok, the foreign ownership ratio is almost never exceeded, which is why condos are not advertised in this way.

I didnt know that but in pattaya alot of condos say thai ownership only. I thought that the # was pre designated. are you saying any unit can be switched to thai / foreigner depending on quota? thats news to me.

 

To expand on this, without wanting to trigger an abrasive response  the following comment seems to indicate not available for foreign ownership  hence the confusion. "This spacious 44sqm studio, 1 bathroom Pattaya property for sale in Thai Company Name and is available partially furnished".

Edited July 9, 2021 by Lextsy1

[smutcakes]

In Bangkok i doubt any Condo is close to 49% foreign ownership. Around Pathumwan you might be having some difficulty as a lot of the land is leasehold to the CPB so Condos cannot be built.

 

The part you quoted just means the unit is held in a company rather than an individual name, so you would be buying the company which holds the unit rather than in your own name.

[tomazbodner]

My condo had like 5-6% foreign ownership, mostly Chinese and Singaporean. It would be very rare, if at all, that any condo in Bangkok would reach 49% foreign ownership. Maybe in some super popular location for foreigners, but that would affect like 0.1% of buildings available to buy.

Leasehold buildings are generally around Ratchadamri area, and a few around Queen Sirikit center, and then one prominent one would be on top of Samyan shopping mall. Most buildings however are built on owned land.

[blackcab]

7 hours ago, Lextsy1 said:

I didnt know that but in pattaya alot of condos say thai ownership only. I thought that the # was pre designated. are you saying any unit can be switched to thai / foreigner depending on quota? thats news to me.

 

To expand on this, without wanting to trigger an abrasive response  the following comment seems to indicate not available for foreign ownership  hence the confusion. "This spacious 44sqm studio, 1 bathroom Pattaya property for sale in Thai Company Name and is available partially furnished".

 

Condos themselves are not designated either Thai ownership or non-Thai ownership. A condo can change between Thai ownership or non-Thai ownership every time it is sold, depending on who buys it.

 

What is important is that the overall ratio in the building does not exceed the 51:49 maximum.

 

This only becomes an issue when the non-Thai quota is near the limit. In Pattaya this can occasionally be an issue, but in Bangkok it really isn't an issue.

 

The thing to understand is that the ownership ratio can change everytime a unit is sold.

 

If there are 100 identical units, and 51 are owned by Thai citizens and 49 are owned by non-Thai citizens the quota would be maxed out.

 

However, if a Thai citizen bought one of the units from a non-Thai citizen the ratio would change to 52:48. A non-Thai citizen could then buy a unit from a Thai seller, and the ratio would then change to 51:49.

 

Ratios change. In some circumstances a buyer might be persuaded to buy a unit from a non-Thai citizen because it is described as "foreign quota". The buyer might pay a premium and not check the building's current ownership ratio. The ratio might have allowed the buyer to buy a unit from a Thai citizen instead, for less money.

 

Many people misunderstand this concept, and insist foreigners can only buy "foreign quota".

[chalawaan]

5 hours ago, Pravda said:

As if by foreign you mean Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese and HK you can safely assume that every single building in the area has at least a dozen foreign owners. The best thing would be to go on living insider and contact the agent for every building you are interested in. 

This comment Pravda, has raised an interesting potential issue in my mind.

 

So if my joint Thai owner wife in BKK predeceases me, and we have cross-bequeathed the property.

But if their passing tips the Thai/Overseas balance in our building, I have just realized I could be up condo creek without a freehold.

 

Can anyone weigh in on ways around this without having to drag in a dodgy distant relative of my missus should she predecease me?

 

I'm sure the OP and everyone here would be keen to learn more about this possibility, many thanks all you owners.

 

[blackcab]

@chalawaan It's unlikely to happen in Bangkok. To answer your question though, by the letter of the law your only option would be to sell it to a Thai citizen or a Thai limited company.

 

That being said, in practice, if you were the administrator of the estate you would defer the sale of the condo unit until such time as you could sell it to yourself.

 

Strictly there is a 1 year time frame to sell the unit. In reality, nobody is going to chase the matter up unless something drastic happens, such as you creating massive problems for yourself.

 

To ease your concern, ask your Juristic Manager what the current ratio is. Chances are the ratio will be very far from being maxed out.

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

If there are 100 identical units, and 51 are owned by Thai citizens and 49 are owned by non-Thai citizens the quota would be maxed out.

 

However, if a Thai citizen bought one of the units from a non-Thai citizen the ratio would change to 52-48. A non-Thai citizen could then buy a unit from a Thai seller, and the ratio would then change to 51-49.

After reading it again, BlackCab already clarified what I was ... re-clarifying. Namely, with 100 "identical" units, then you could count them, but in reality the quota of 49% is not based on number of units, but rather the floor space taken by foreign owned units vs. floor space available for all the units in the building. So it's not even about how many are sold, but say total addressable space is 10,000 m2, and foreigners own 50% of all units, however that only is combined 3,000m2 - in that case you can still buy in foreign name despite more than 50% of units are already sold to foreigners, even if 0 Thais bought anything in that building. But on the other side, if foreigners only bought 20% of all units, but that consisted of 49% of the entire floor space of the building - you could not buy as you unit would have exceeded the ratio.

Edited July 9, 2021 by tomazbodner

[Lextsy1]

23 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

My condo had like 5-6% foreign ownership, mostly Chinese and Singaporean. It would be very rare, if at all, that any condo in Bangkok would reach 49% foreign ownership. Maybe in some super popular location for foreigners, but that would affect like 0.1% of buildings available to buy.

Leasehold buildings are generally around Ratchadamri area, and a few around Queen Sirikit center, and then one prominent one would be on top of Samyan shopping mall. Most buildings however are built on owned land.

Thanks for the replies from everyone that has cleared some things. up.

 

@tomazbodner Do you have any reccomendations on under value areas without the higher risks? anything to look out for?  I can quickly see soi 4 nana has some nice big cheap units but i assume it would like living on soi 6 in Pattaya.

[ChipButty]

10 minutes ago, Lextsy1 said:

Thanks for the replies from everyone that has cleared some things. up.

 

@tomazbodner Do you have any reccomendations on under value areas without the higher risks? anything to look out for?  I can quickly see soi 4 nana has some nice big cheap units but i assume it would like living on soi 6 in Pattaya.

Down the bottom of Soi 4 is ok some of them older condo blocks the units are huge a couple of friends lived in Omni towers and the back of my condo was facing them my main entrance was on soi 2 as for Nana plaza you cant hear a thing, 

[Lextsy1]

1 minute ago, ChipButty said:

Down the bottom of Soi 4 is ok some of them older condo blocks the units are huge a couple of friends lived in Omni towers and the back of my condo was facing them my main entrance was on soi 2 as for Nana plaza you cant hear a thing, 

Yeah i was just looking at Omni. Amazing value 130k aud for around 70sqm..  My condo in pattaya is in Pattay hill resort, an older building but suits me fine and 100sqm for 4m was a bargain.  Didnt see if there was parking @ omni but will keep it in consideration.

[bojo]

22 hours ago, blackcab said:

Many people misunderstand this concept, and insist foreigners can only buy "foreign quota".

and I was one of those misunderstanding, really interesting info, tnx

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Lextsy1 said:

Thanks for the replies from everyone that has cleared some things. up.

 

@tomazbodner Do you have any reccomendations on under value areas without the higher risks? anything to look out for?  I can quickly see soi 4 nana has some nice big cheap units but i assume it would like living on soi 6 in Pattaya.

I think you should see this by yourself as I don't know what kind of lifestyle you have. I was in city center for 18 years and went through several shootouts in front of my home, so it was time to get out of the concrete jungle to a convenient place with lots of greenery around. However to search I'd recommend looking at Hipflat.co.th or ddproperty.com (both have English versions), and choose area and see what's there. Take a look at the photos posted, then search for property on youtube. There are several videos available from usual suspects like LivingInsider who go with camera to the place and review it. I would still say that it's good not to look only for price but also reputation of developer and management company. I am lucky I chose Sansiri so any even smallest things is fixed immediately. I see complaints from residents of other properties that I was considering that repairs are really shoddy or they are waiting months/year+ for them. Sansiri management company is Plus Property, and they have listing of properties available for rent or sale as co-owners can put them up for sale/rent inside building app. Though you should negotiate prices listed there, or search for same properties on other classifieds sites.

 

Oh! And make sure there's no plastics factory within 5-10 km around your place.... or port... or anything else that can blow up.

[AJBangkok]

On 7/9/2021 at 11:52 AM, Lextsy1 said:

Looking in Bangkok around Pathum wan area i am unable to find any which are foreign ownership, non leasehold

A lot ( but not all) of the land in Pratumwan is owned by the crown property bureau so it’s all 50 year leasehold. You will see some condos in Rajdamri which look super cheap but it’s because they have less years on the lease yet to run.

You are better off looking in lower Sukhumvit where you can find older buildings that sell from 70-90k per sqm

[ChipButty]

19 hours ago, Lextsy1 said:

Yeah i was just looking at Omni. Amazing value 130k aud for around 70sqm..  My condo in pattaya is in Pattay hill resort, an older building but suits me fine and 100sqm for 4m was a bargain.  Didnt see if there was parking @ omni but will keep it in consideration.

It has covered parking I just looked 

This web site has a lot just as a reference https://lazudi.com/th-en

Edited July 11, 2021 by ChipButty

[LukKrueng]

On 7/9/2021 at 1:22 PM, Lextsy1 said:

I didnt know that but in pattaya alot of condos say thai ownership only. I thought that the # was pre designated. are you saying any unit can be switched to thai / foreigner depending on quota? thats news to me.

 

To expand on this, without wanting to trigger an abrasive response  the following comment seems to indicate not available for foreign ownership  hence the confusion. "This spacious 44sqm studio, 1 bathroom Pattaya property for sale in Thai Company Name and is available partially furnished".

There is a misconception about the quota of condos among foreigners. As was already mentioned by others in this thread, the units are not designated one way or the other. The procedure for a non Thai to buy a condo unit is to get a letter from the condo building management stating the current ratio of Thai to non Thai ownership at that point in time. The foreign buyer must get this letter whether they buy the unit from a Thai or from another foreign owner. 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

There is a misconception about the quota of condos among foreigners. As was already mentioned by others in this thread, the units are not designated one way or the other. The procedure for a non Thai to buy a condo unit is to get a letter from the condo building management stating the current ratio of Thai to non Thai ownership at that point in time. The foreign buyer must get this letter whether they buy the unit from a Thai or from another foreign owner. 

If foreign quota is full a foreign buyer also has the option of buying in company name.  

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

a foreign buyer also has the option of buying in company name.  

he will first have to find two trustworthy partners, as the authorities start to crack down on fake partners.

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

The procedure for a non Thai to buy a condo unit is to get a letter from the condo building management stating the current ratio of Thai to non Thai ownership at that point in time. The foreign buyer must get this letter whether they buy the unit from a Thai or from another foreign owner. 

 

My advice is for the buyer to ask the seller to arrange the ratio letter. The seller must get a debt-free letter from the building's juristic manager anyway, so getting both letters at the same time doesn't take the seller any longer.

[LukKrueng]

12 hours ago, newnative said:

If foreign quota is full a foreign buyer also has the option of buying in company name.  

 

10 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

My advice is for the buyer to ask the seller to arrange the ratio letter. The seller must get a debt-free letter from the building's juristic manager anyway, so getting both letters at the same time doesn't take the seller any longer.

The point of my reply was to clear the quota misconception, not to find/ point at loopholes nor the way to get the letter. 

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

he will first have to find two trustworthy partners, as the authorities start to crack down on fake partners.

I have been hearing that 'crack down' for 20 years and not once have i ever heard any law abiding, normal person having any issue.

 

Obviously if you are a moron and create your own drama, soup opera and get involved with dodgy characters and draw unnecessary attention to yourself, you will reap what you sow.