Picture of Power Meter Lightning Strike

[carlyai]

From an Isaan residence.

 

 

[Crossy]

Ouch.

 

How much damage in the house?

 

This is the kind of strike that worries me most, no amount of surge supression is going to save your technology ???? 

 

[decca60]

it's not gonna work as it was before ☠️

[dontpanic]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

Ouch.

 

How much damage in the house?

 

This is the kind of strike that worries me most, no amount of surge supression is going to save your technology ???? 

 

Might be a stupid question and I know you've mentioned about no surge protection can handle this but I was just wondering if there is  any way to protect the whole house from this kind of attack? Is there a way to install a lightning rod on the meter poll or some kind of breaker device between the meter and the house? Sorry don't know much about electrics but I'm just thinking ahead for future reference. 

[Crossy]

The supply authority don't like having their kit blown up so there's already a fair amount of protection in place, the HV poles have an earthed bleed wire right at the top and if your poles are LV only the neutral is the top wire, it's uninsulated and earthed every 3rd pole or so. There are also spark-gaps at strategic points to limit the voltage that gets into the system.

 

The trouble is that lightning is fickle stuff and doesn't really follow the rules, it might decide that it doesn't like the highest point and hit the 2nd or 3rd wire - Bang!

 

Also, even if you open your main breaker when the flash-and-bang starts the contact gap is only about 5mm, a direct hit has come through 20,000 feet of air, ya think another 5mm is going to get in its way?

 

Unplugging sensitive kit when not in use certainly won't do any harm but no warranty is implied or inferred.

[AgMech Cowboy]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

The supply authority don't like having their kit blown up so there's already a fair amount of protection in place, the HV poles have an earthed bleed wire right at the top and if your poles are LV only the neutral is the top wire, it's uninsulated and earthed every 3rd pole or so. There are also spark-gaps at strategic points to limit the voltage that gets into the system.

 

The trouble is that lightning is fickle stuff and doesn't really follow the rules, it might decide that it doesn't like the highest point and hit the 2nd or 3rd wire - Bang!

 

Also, even if you open your main breaker when the flash-and-bang starts the contact gap is only about 5mm, a direct hit has come through 20,000 feet of air, ya think another 5mm is going to get in its way?

 

Unplugging sensitive kit when not in use certainly won't do any harm but no warranty is implied or inferred.

Interesting info. Good to know. Thanks!

[toofarnorth]

1 hour ago, dontpanic said:

Might be a stupid question and I know you've mentioned about no surge protection can handle this but I was just wondering if there is  any way to protect the whole house from this kind of attack? Is there a way to install a lightning rod on the meter poll or some kind of breaker device between the meter and the house? Sorry don't know much about electrics but I'm just thinking ahead for future reference. 

I don't really want to go religeous on here but If churches are the house of God why are there lightning conductors on the steeples.

[MrJ2U]

WOW.

 

Any damages to your electronics or appliances?

[dontpanic]

10 hours ago, Crossy said:

The supply authority don't like having their kit blown up so there's already a fair amount of protection in place, the HV poles have an earthed bleed wire right at the top and if your poles are LV only the neutral is the top wire, it's uninsulated and earthed every 3rd pole or so. There are also spark-gaps at strategic points to limit the voltage that gets into the system.

 

The trouble is that lightning is fickle stuff and doesn't really follow the rules, it might decide that it doesn't like the highest point and hit the 2nd or 3rd wire - Bang!

 

Also, even if you open your main breaker when the flash-and-bang starts the contact gap is only about 5mm, a direct hit has come through 20,000 feet of air, ya think another 5mm is going to get in its way?

 

Unplugging sensitive kit when not in use certainly won't do any harm but no warranty is implied or inferred.

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. 

[brianthainess]

14 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

I don't really want to go religeous on here but If churches are the house of God why are there lightning conductors on the steeples.

Maybe a direct line to the bloke who created the world in pitch black, BEFORE his famous quote "let there be light".

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, Crossy said:

The supply authority don't like having their kit blown up so there's already a fair amount of protection in place, the HV poles have an earthed bleed wire right at the top and if your poles are LV only the neutral is the top wire, it's uninsulated and earthed every 3rd pole or so. There are also spark-gaps at strategic points to limit the voltage that gets into the system.

 

The trouble is that lightning is fickle stuff and doesn't really follow the rules, it might decide that it doesn't like the highest point and hit the 2nd or 3rd wire - Bang!

 

Also, even if you open your main breaker when the flash-and-bang starts the contact gap is only about 5mm, a direct hit has come through 20,000 feet of air, ya think another 5mm is going to get in its way?

 

Unplugging sensitive kit when not in use certainly won't do any harm but no warranty is implied or inferred.

Not sure what you mean, but around my area they have drop out fuses, on top of the HV poles, when their is a problem it blows and hangs down, the company come with a long bamboo stick and replace it or push it back in. I think if a meter got hit it would blow this fuse.

Edited July 25, 2021 by brianthainess
photo

[Crossy]

Yes ^^^, the HV (and their LV friends) drop fuses often open in response to lightning strikes, but they are not lightning protection, they are way too slow acting to have any impact upon the surge itself.

 

Luckily for us the majority of hits occur on the HV side of the transformer which, with it's own protection, tends to isolate the LV side from really big effects which can be slugged further with MOV protection in your home.

 

The meter in the OP would seem to have been the result of a hit to the LV side of the transformer, nothing is stopping that going where it likes ???? 

[tomazbodner]

18 hours ago, Crossy said:

The supply authority don't like having their kit blown up so there's already a fair amount of protection in place, the HV poles have an earthed bleed wire right at the top and if your poles are LV only the neutral is the top wire, it's uninsulated and earthed every 3rd pole or so. There are also spark-gaps at strategic points to limit the voltage that gets into the system.

 

The trouble is that lightning is fickle stuff and doesn't really follow the rules, it might decide that it doesn't like the highest point and hit the 2nd or 3rd wire - Bang!

 

Also, even if you open your main breaker when the flash-and-bang starts the contact gap is only about 5mm, a direct hit has come through 20,000 feet of air, ya think another 5mm is going to get in its way?

 

Unplugging sensitive kit when not in use certainly won't do any harm but no warranty is implied or inferred.

Back in Europe, a friend had a lightning strike within 20-30m from his house. There was a cassette deck (yes, we used to use those back then) on the kitchen table, with the power cable coiled up on the top. Not connected anywhere, obviously. Got fried. Like much of the rest of the stuff in his house. And it wasn't even a direct hit.

 

So no, that few mm isn't going to do much. I used to use these anti-lightning adapters back then... they looked like travel adapter. Never got a hit so I don't know if they work at all but I was told they had (resistors? - sorry, trying to remember from 25+ years back) in sequence to cause enough delay and drop for the breaker to kick in... As said, that was then, no idea if this still exists or if it worked at all.

 

Right now using Monster Power bars. Seems company is fairly confident as they give quarter of a million dollars guarantee on anything fried that's connected into their product. It's specifically designed to protect against lightning strikes. Never opened it up to see what's in it.

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Never opened it up to see what's in it.

 

It will have one (preferably 3) of these chaps, a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor), these are fast acting and can absorb the kind of surges we see all the time.

 

Do check the conditions of the "guarantee" provided by your power strip, a strike of the magnitude seen in our OP is sending it, and the kit plugged into it, in to orbit.

 

[Netease]

My property has been hit 3 times 2nd time direct to the roof, it blue out about 20 led in the house and the motherboards in the Air conditioning system. Since then have installed 3 lighting poles.

Got hit a 3rd time direct to a lighting rod which was connected to one of my light poles which carries the 3 phase wires to the house this time it just blue out the led lights attached to the pole. My house backs onto rice fields and tallest in the area and made of timber so you can not attach lighting rods direct to the house.

By the way the house was completed Dec 2019 and I  havent been able to get to it thanks to Covert, locked in Oz

[Netease]

4 hours ago, Netease said:

My property has been hit 3 times 2nd time direct to the roof, it blue out about 20 led in the house and the motherboards in the Air conditioning system. Since then have installed 3 lighting poles.

Got hit a 3rd time direct to a lighting rod which was connected to one of my light poles which carries the 3 phase wires to the house this time it just blue out the led lights attached to the pole. My house backs onto rice fields and tallest in the area and made of timber so you can not attach lighting rods direct to the house.

By the way the house was completed Dec 2019 and I  havent been able to get to it thanks to Covert, locked in Oz

 

[Crossy]

@Netease are those your poles or PEA?

 

More details of what you have would be most welcome.

 

If you don't already have them you should also install some big MOVs (80 or 100kA) on your incoming supply along with smaller ones scattered around your installation to mop up any remaining surges.

[Netease]

15 hours ago, Crossy said:

@Netease are those your poles or PEA?

 

More details of what you have would be most welcome.

 

If you don't already have them you should also install some big MOVs (80 or 100kA) on your incoming supply along with smaller ones scattered around your installation to mop up any remaining surges.

They are my poles, the problem I have and what I think is the amount of copper wire on my property and in the timber house its like a magnet to lighting

Edited July 26, 2021 by Netease
Spelling

[Encid]

 

Where can you get stuff like this?

 

Do they work?

 

My concern is that our new build is out in the middle of the rice fields of Isaan, and will be not only the highest structure, but the only structure around for several kilometers and are highly likely to get struck by lightning during those violent summer storms.

 

A direct strike would take out everything and anything electrical in the house... currently there is no surge protection (no pun intended).

[transam]

I had a meter that looked like that last year..............????

[Crossy]

19 hours ago, Encid said:

Where can you get stuff like this?

 

Do they work?

 

Thaiwatsadu, Global house, MegaHome have air-terminals, rods and copper strip in varying combinations, you'll likely end up visiting all three to get what you want.

 

As to whether they actually work? Even now the jury is out on just how to protect your installation. Peruse the many manufacturer's websites and advice notes and make an informed decision.

 

Not long after we moved in, we took a direct hit to the roof of our steel and concrete home. Frightened the willies out of the wife. Physical damage was a chunk out of one of our teak barge-boards and a couple of ridge tiles. Easy fix. Our roof steel is (fortuitously) connected all the way down to the steel in the piles which doubtless limited the damage.

 

Electrical damage. Pretty much everything outside the faraday-cage of the house got zapped, satellite LNB, WiMax router, electric gate controller etc. Inside damage was limited to PC UPSs. Lights and TVs etc. lived to tell the tale and at the time we had no surge suppression.

 

We still haven't installed any air-terminals although we have surge arrestors everywhere. No issue in 10 years (looking for wood to touch!).

 

 

[indyo]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:45 PM, dontpanic said:

Might be a stupid question and I know you've mentioned about no surge protection can handle this but I was just wondering if there is  any way to protect the whole house from this kind of attack? Is there a way to install a lightning rod on the meter poll or some kind of breaker device between the meter and the house? Sorry don't know much about electrics but I'm just thinking ahead for future reference. 

there are SPDs with different classes to install in different positions inside your home.

starting from class 1-2 from the main and class 3 to install very close from the device to protect like, fridge, tv, aircon, dishwasher, pc etc. you will not 100% protected but better to have them installed in my opinion.

Edited April 12, 2023 by indyo

[degrub]

Had 3 strikes within 1-2 years about a decade ago, all within 100 ft of the house. Took out two trees and a  transformer + neighbor’s electronics. Convinced me to add MOVs at the main breaker panel in addition to all of the UPSs and surge protected plug bars. The upper Texas Gulf coast is second only to Florida in likelihood of getting hit.

 

Benjamin Franklin was one of the earliest to figure out a way the reduce the chance of church steeples getting a strike that would destroy them by installing air-terminals directly connected to earth thus providing a mimimim resistance path to earth and diverting the 30-100,000 amps of current around the building. They are not 100% effective.

 

here is a link to a basic explanation 

https://stormhighway.com/protection.php

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by degrub

[unheard]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Physical damage was a chunk out of one of our teak barge-boards and a couple of ridge tiles. Easy fix. Our roof steel is (fortuitously) connected all the way down to the steel in the piles which doubtless limited the damage.

Assuming you have concrete roof tiles...

Would a metal roof make a difference in the same kind of a situation, on the same type of the house construction?

 

Do the underground portions of rebar in concrete piles/footings have to be exposed in some way, instead of being fully encapsulated in concrete, in order to provide enough of electrical connection to drain off lightning current?

[Crossy]

A metal roof may well fare better, yes we have concrete tiles.

 

The steel in the piles / footings does not need to be exposed, Google "Ufer Ground" or "Concrete Encased Electrode", we have a goodly number of 16m driven piles and the steel is all cross linked.

 

But do note that for a pukka LPS (lightning protection system) you may be looking at large earth mats or an array of rods to get the resistance low enough.

 

[indyo]

2 hours ago, degrub said:

Had 3 strikes within 1-2 years about a decade ago, all within 100 ft of the house. Took out two trees and a  transformer + neighbor’s electronics. Convinced me to add MOVs at the main breaker panel in addition to all of the UPSs and surge protected plug bars. The upper Texas Gulf coast is second only to Florida in likelihood of getting hit.

 

Benjamin Franklin was one of the earliest to figure out a way the reduce the chance of church steeples getting a strike that would destroy them by installing air-terminals directly connected to earth thus providing a mimimim resistance path to earth and diverting the 30-100,000 amps of current around the building. They are not 100% effective.

 

here is a link to a basic explanation 

https://stormhighway.com/protection.php

 

 

 

very interesting, it depends also how the house is made of, I mean here in Thailand a metal roof home on concrete pillars/footing are almost a Faraday cage, roof is grounded by the pillar rebars, adding some heavy conductor cables from roof to ground should help.

[unheard]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

A metal roof may well fare better, yes we have concrete tiles.

How about a metal roof on a fully wooden house.

What would be the most likely end-effect of a direct-on-the-roof lightning strike in that situation?

[indyo]

11 minutes ago, unheard said:

Assuming you have concrete roof tiles...

Would a metal roof make a difference in the same kind of a situation, on the same type of the house construction?

 

Do the underground portions of rebar in concrete piles/footings have to be exposed in some way, instead of being fully encapsulated in concrete, in order to provide enough of electrical connection to drain off lightning current?

I guess also with concrete tiles the under tile support steel acts as Faraday cage

[Encid]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

As to whether they actually work? Even now the jury is out on just how to protect your installation. Peruse the many manufacturer's websites and advice notes and make an informed decision.

I found this section from degrub's reference article particularly interesting...

 

"Cloud-to-ground lightning strokes initiate high in thunderstorms, miles above the surface where ground objects have no effect. Even after initiation of the discharge, the downward-moving stepped leader is 'blind' to objects on the ground until it is very close to the ground, within 50 to 100 feet. At that distance, lightning will strike within the very small area it is already descending in, regardless of any devices nearby that claim to divert or prevent the strike. For example, a photograph exists of a lightning strike to the Merchandise Mart building in downtown Chicago. Merchandise Mart is very close to the 1,700 foot tall Sears Tower, yet not even the Sears Tower influenced the ground connection of this close cloud-to-ground stroke."

 

As a lightning bolt's ground connection is already 'set in stone', so to speak... nothing short of a large telecoms tower or skyscraper will attract or deflect the bolt away from its target... which is a factor of the position of the storm rather than objects on the ground.

 

I wonder if it's worth it? 

[dingdongrb]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:52 AM, Crossy said:

 

It will have one (preferably 3) of these chaps, a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor), these are fast acting and can absorb the kind of surges we see all the time.

 

Do check the conditions of the "guarantee" provided by your power strip, a strike of the magnitude seen in our OP is sending it, and the kit plugged into it, in to orbit.

 

..or perhaps Transorbs