Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Oblomov said:

I am vaccinated and do encourage vaccinations so you misunderstood that

 

Noting faux about my concern for others as I'm actively involved in practical and real support for some of my poorest friends on Bali as well as donations to a kind group that feed the starving dogs of Bali as their primary source of food has all but disappeared

 

I didn't object to lockdowns because they had any impact on me as I worked right through them but I objected because they harmed my friends who don't have the luxury of an idiotic state to pay them to sit at home - One of my closest friends didn't make it through the impact of the lockdown so I resent your rudeness, which is easy in anonymity

 

Craven and idiotic replies likes yours are thoroughly reprehensible

I trust you’ll accept I my post addressed the post I was responding to, not anything you said after the fact.

 

In the first you specifically refer to the services paid for by our taxes while in the second your concern is ‘friends who don't have the luxury of an idiotic state to pay them to sit at home’.

 

I’m concerned too, something doesn’t add up.

[PoorSucker]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:10 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

And it seems you missed this bit:

 

“Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated."

 

https://wamu.org/story/21/10/12/breakthrough-infections-might-not-be-a-big-transmission-risk-heres-the-evidence/

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed.

 

[pgrahmm]

Chiang Mai Covid related deaths.....

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, ThaiSmarterThanYou said:

how possible that so many people are still not vaccinated and do not want to vaccinate ? with such a provax propaganda all over the world, I would call myself an idiot if I could not force everybody to inject what I told them to !

 

 

I’d explain it to you, but since you clearly don’t know the definition of ‘propaganda’ and have completely missed on which side of the vaccine debate propaganda has and continues to be propagated, I feel any attempt at explanation would be futile.

 

But don’t be despondent, observable reality is out there.

 

The title of ‘idiot’ to which you say you would lay claim has already been taken by millions of people who refuse a safe effective vaccine in favor of anything the science denying extremists feed them.

 

I suggest you ask the people refusing the vaccine why they do so, but don’t expect a rational answer.

 

 

[thailandbeachisland]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The title of ‘idiot’ to which you say you would lay claim has already been taken by millions of people who refuse a safe effective vaccine in favor of anything the science denying extremists feed them.

I guess that this is what we can call propaganda, I can see it on TV everyday...

 

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thailandbeachisland said:

Quite true that pushing people stop them from doing it, I will not vaccinate just for the pleasure to see the pro vaccination keep complaining and losing face !

A lot of people have said the same thing but mysteriously many of them have gone quiet now.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/reddit-s-herman-cain-covid-award-depressing-sign-our-times-ncna1280616

[thailandbeachisland]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

A lot of people have said the same thing but mysteriously many of them have gone quiet now.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/reddit-s-herman-cain-covid-award-depressing-sign-our-times-ncna1280616

people and their links always make me laugh out loud !

 

thank you !

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, thailandbeachisland said:

 

Quite true that pushing people stop them from doing it, I will not vaccinate just for the pleasure to see the pro vaccination keep complaining and losing face !

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said earlier, no rational answer.

 

Risking your own health in order to troll people you probably don’t know is far from rational.

[Airalee]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:54 PM, pgrahmm said:

Chiang Mai Covid related deaths.....

Not quite sure what to make of this.  Is being partially vaccinated better than being fully vaccinated?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Not quite sure what to make of this.  Is being partially vaccinated better than being fully vaccinated?

You’d need some more information to determine if that were so.

 

In particular you would need to know the absolute number of fully vaccinated and partially vaccinated.

 

Odd though, you seem to have missed the 85% (helpfully colored red).

[Airalee]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’d need some more information to determine if that were so.

 

In particular you would need to know the absolute number of fully vaccinated and partially vaccinated.

 

Odd though, you seem to have missed the 85% (helpfully colored red).

Yes.  Absolute numbers are essential to making any determination in addition to other information that is missing.

 

For example,

 

What is the percentage of people who have died when comparing it to the overall total population of Chiang Mai Province?  

 

What was the health status (height/weight, alcohol consumption, diet, pre-existing conditions etc etc) of each and every individual that died.

 

It’s necessary to parse all the relevant information in a granular way before making any proclamations.

[ozimoron]

47 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Not quite sure what to make of this.  Is being partially vaccinated better than being fully vaccinated?

It's a shame you didn't provide a link to the article as is usual forum etiquette. I say that because the percentages on the chart are mathematically incorrect.

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Yes.  Absolute numbers are essential to making any determination in addition to other information that is missing.

 

For example,

 

What is the percentage of people who have died when comparing it to the overall total population of Chiang Mai Province?  

 

What was the health status (height/weight, alcohol consumption, diet, pre-existing conditions etc etc) of each and every individual that died.

 

It’s necessary to parse all the relevant information in a granular way before making any proclamations.

Stop blowing smoke. All you need to know to make sense of that pie chart is to know what percentage of residents in Chiang Mai are fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated, and unvaccinated.

[Chomper Higgot]

59 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Yes.  Absolute numbers are essential to making any determination in addition to other information that is missing.

 

For example,

 

What is the percentage of people who have died when comparing it to the overall total population of Chiang Mai Province?  

 

What was the health status (height/weight, alcohol consumption, diet, pre-existing conditions etc etc) of each and every individual that died.

 

It’s necessary to parse all the relevant information in a granular way before making any proclamations.

No it is not necessary to know the health status and life style choices of all who die of COVID in order to determine the threat of COVID to a population.

 

The larger the data sample size the more accurately it will represent the general

population.

 

Moreover, the data from one population may, and is, compared with the data from others.

 

The comparative risks of serious illness, hospitalization and death from COVID for fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals are well documented.

 

In the context of this thread all that is necessary to know is vaccination status.

 

Don’t delude yourself otherwise.

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed.

 

[The Cipher]

On 11/16/2021 at 5:03 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

If you were a bit more honest, skipped the faux concern for others and objected to the impact of the lockdowns on you personally I might have given your comment a ‘like’.

Oh darn. Ok, I'll fish for a ‘like’. Here goes: I'm not particularly concerned about others and object to the impact of the lockdowns on me personally.

 

Quote

Hollow words of concern for others could be filled out by getting your vaccination and encouraging others to do so.

I'll spare the audience hollow words of concern but will fill my statement out by being vaccinated and encouraging others to do so (just get it over with).

 

However if people at this point are unwilling to be vaccinated, I will continue to occasionally (but strongly) object to the massive costs and inconveniences of lockdowns. I would support mandated vaccination and/or the higher death rates (within a threshold) of just living with the virus, but lockdowns at this point are ridiculous and the worst of all possible options.

[ozimoron]

55 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Oh darn. Ok, I'll fish for a ‘like’. Here goes: I'm not particularly concerned about others and object to the impact of the lockdowns on me personally.

 

I'll spare the audience hollow words of concern but will fill my statement out by being vaccinated and encouraging others to do so (just get it over with).

 

However if people at this point are unwilling to be vaccinated, I will continue to occasionally (but strongly) object to the massive costs and inconveniences of lockdowns. I would support mandated vaccination and/or the higher death rates (within a threshold) of just living with the virus, but lockdowns at this point are ridiculous and the worst of all possible options.

The world is moving towards greater restrictions for the unvaccinated and mandatory vaccinations with severe limitations on movement for the unvaccinated. That is the price to pay for vaccine reluctance. I welcome it. The constant bleating by those who don't care about others regarding the negative effects of lock downs are falling on deaf ears more and more. I feel safer.

[pgrahmm]

 

From Quora - a worthwhile read.... References footnoted.....

 

This is actually an interesting question. Let’s have a look at the numbers.

1. 80% lower risk of infection

The most important factor of protecting others is the most straightforward one, direct protection against infection.

Looking at infection numbers across a variety of countries, we can see that on average infection and hospitalization numbers are 80% less for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people.

Fig 1: UK positivity rate vaccinated vs. unvaccinated

Fig 2: Infection rates unvaccinated vs. vaccinated

Fig 3: The Unvaccinated Drive COVID-19 Infections in the U.S.

In the first 4 months, protection against infection is very high at around 88%. After 5–6 months, protection is at around 74%.

Fig 4: Coronavirus: Waning immunity and rising cases - time to worry?

That’s why there are now boosters.

However, that’s normal. A lot of vaccines have 3 shots, polio vaccine even has 4 and diphtheria 5 shots.

2. Vaccinated people clear the virus 66% faster.

The second important factor is virus clearance.

Those that are vaccinated and get infected, clear the virus 66% faster than those who are unvaccinated, giving them much less time to infect others.[1]

Fig 4: Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

As a result, those vaccinated spread the virus 65% less.[2]

Now, that we know that vaccinated individuals are infected 80% less often and when infected cause 66% infections 3 factors, we find an 80% reduced infection risk + 66% reduced risk of spreading infection = 94% reduced risk of spreading the infection for a vaccinated person vs. an unvaccinated person.

3. Vaccinated people occupy hospital beds 90% less often.

The third important factor is hospitalization rates.

As we can see in the 2 graphics below, being vaccinated reduces your risk by 90% of being hospitalized.

Fig 6: COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among vaccinated and unvaccinated adults

Furthermore, if you control for age and compare unvaccinated to vaccinated people, the risk rises by 20x for someone unvaccinated compared to someone who is vaccinated from the same age group.

Fig 7: COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people

Fig 8: COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people

4. Herd immunity

The fourth factor of protecting others can be seen by looking at the countries with the highest vaccination rates of.

There, we can see that all of the 14 most vaccinated countries with a vaccination rate of higher than 75% have less than 150 infections per 100,000 people on a 7-day rolling average (incidence), except for Singapore, because it has a 20x-2,000x higher population density than those countries.

Here, they are with their 7-day rolling average daily incidence per 100,000 people (abbreviated to daily incidence)

1. UAE 98% vaccinated, 7 daily incidence
2. Portugal 89%, 133 daily incidence
3. Cuba 89%, 36 daily incidence
4. Singapore 87%, 516 daily incidence
5. Chile 87%, 127 daily incidence
6. Cambodia 83%, 4 daily incidence
7. South Korea 82%, 43 daily incidence
8. Spain 82%, 65 daily daily incidence
9. Uruguay 80%, 53 daily incidence
10. Canada 80%, 65 daily incidence
11. Japan 80%, 1 daily daily incidence
12. Italy 78%, 65 daily incidence
13. France 76%, 140 daily incidence
14. Brazil 76%, 53 daily incidence

Source: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Cases - Statistics and Research

The 7-day rolling average for new infections in the EU is at around 500.

As we can see, vaccination rates above 75% provide a 90% reduction on average compared to countries of similar population density with mediocre vaccination rates.

Conclusion:

Here are the 6 main statistics on the effectiveness of the vaccine:

The average vaccinated vs. unvaccinated person has a

1. 80% decreased risk of infection
2. 66% faster time for clearance of the virus
3. 66% overall decreased risk of infecting others when being infected
4. 94% overall decreased risk of infecting others
5. 90% decreased risk for hospitalization and 95% decreased risk for hospitalization compared to someone of the same age
6. Herd immunity starts to kick in strongly at 75% of the population vaccinated

Footnotes

[1] COVID-19 Vaccine Reduces Severity, Length, Viral Load for Those Who Still Get Infected

[2] Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

[The Cipher]

26 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The world is moving towards greater restrictions for the unvaccinated and mandatory vaccinations with severe limitations on movement for the unvaccinated. That is the price to pay for vaccine reluctance. I welcome it. The constant bleating by those who don't care about others regarding the negative effects of lock downs are falling on deaf ears more and more. I feel safer.

Tell you a secret. Well, maybe a couple of secrets.

1) You're not arguing against what I said, you're arguing against what you think I said because your position has become reflexive. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, ergo I care a lot less if the unvaccinated are subject to restrictions (no effect on me) than I do about general restrictions (significant effect on me). Preferably nobody would be locked down, but generally if it doesn't affect my quality of life = I don't care. ????‍♂️

 

2) About 18 months ago now, I realized that it's a total waste of time to seriously argue a Covid counterpoint or to swim against the policy current. I might disagree with restrictions but am I gonna change even a single person's mind by arguing (especially on a message board like this where nobody has any influence) or by going outside to fight the government? No.

 

Way more optimal use of time has been to build additional scalable sources of income and to learn new skills. People may agree with me or disagree with me or absolutely hate my guts re: topical issues, but as long as they pay me I'm pretty fine each way. If I still feel strongly about this in a couple of years it would be more meaningful to use the additional funds and credentials to bolster a political run or participate in discourse at a level that has a more meaningful chance of affecting the direction of policy.

 

Not really sure who this comment is for now that I've written it. Maybe it'll turn the lightbulb????on for a lurker, although this ain't really the right audience. It's written now though, so I'll just hit 'Submit Reply.' ????‍♂️

[ozimoron]

Do not be fooled by antivaxxers', their motive is purely political. They are mostly far right and belong to a demographic which is notorious for lack of empathy towards the underprivileged and minority groups. Their only goal is to ensure that the current US administration fails because the previous guy failed due to gross incompetence. They don't care who has to die to achieve this goal.

 

Quote

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported in August that COVID-19 survivors who ignored advice to get vaccinated were more than twice as likely to get infected again. A more recent study from the CDC, looking at data from nearly 190 hospitals in nine states, determined that unvaccinated people who had been infected months earlier were five times more likely to get COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people who didn’t have a prior infection.

 

Studies also show that COVID-19 survivors who get vaccinated develop extra-strong protection, what’s called “hybrid immunity.”

 

...many Republicans eager to buck Biden have embraced the argument that immunity from earlier infections should be enough to earn an exemption from the mandates.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccines-natural-immunity-285ae319be9c3ea42dd7bb8400ea4888

Edited November 22, 2021 by ozimoron

[Danderman123]

15 hours ago, Airalee said:

Yes.  Absolute numbers are essential to making any determination in addition to other information that is missing.

 

For example,

 

What is the percentage of people who have died when comparing it to the overall total population of Chiang Mai Province?  

 

What was the health status (height/weight, alcohol consumption, diet, pre-existing conditions etc etc) of each and every individual that died.

 

It’s necessary to parse all the relevant information in a granular way before making any proclamations.

What’s your point?

 

5 million have died from Covid, it’s the worse plague in modern history. Trying to minimize it by framing statistics to mislead doesn’t help anyone.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Oh darn. Ok, I'll fish for a ‘like’. Here goes: I'm not particularly concerned about others and object to the impact of the lockdowns on me personally.

 

I'll spare the audience hollow words of concern but will fill my statement out by being vaccinated and encouraging others to do so (just get it over with).

 

However if people at this point are unwilling to be vaccinated, I will continue to occasionally (but strongly) object to the massive costs and inconveniences of lockdowns. I would support mandated vaccination and/or the higher death rates (within a threshold) of just living with the virus, but lockdowns at this point are ridiculous and the worst of all possible options.

So, where is your bar located?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

Tell you a secret. Well, maybe a couple of secrets.

1) You're not arguing against what I said, you're arguing against what you think I said because your position has become reflexive. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, ergo I care a lot less if the unvaccinated are subject to restrictions (no effect on me) than I do about general restrictions (significant effect on me). Preferably nobody would be locked down, but generally if it doesn't affect my quality of life = I don't care. ????‍♂️

 

2) About 18 months ago now, I realized that it's a total waste of time to seriously argue a Covid counterpoint or to swim against the policy current. I might disagree with restrictions but am I gonna change even a single person's mind by arguing (especially on a message board like this where nobody has any influence) or by going outside to fight the government? No.

 

Way more optimal use of time has been to build additional scalable sources of income and to learn new skills. People may agree with me or disagree with me or absolutely hate my guts re: topical issues, but as long as they pay me I'm pretty fine each way. If I still feel strongly about this in a couple of years it would be more meaningful to use the additional funds and credentials to bolster a political run or participate in discourse at a level that has a more meaningful chance of affecting the direction of policy.

 

Not really sure who this comment is for now that I've written it. Maybe it'll turn the lightbulb????on for a lurker, although this ain't really the right audience. It's written now though, so I'll just hit 'Submit Reply.' ????‍♂️

I agree with you that recognizing the actuality of the COVID situation, regardless of how that came about, has been a necessary step to dealing with it in the most positive way, and yes that includes taking the opportunities that have arisen. 

COVID has changed the world we live in, some of the changes are very positive for those able to take advantage of them.

 

I however disagree with you on the value of expressing opinions on this forum on any other social media.

 

The last 5 or 6 years have taught us all that social media and what is said on social media has very real and significant impacts on the world we live in.

 

 

 

 

[The Cipher]

Quote

Do not be fooled by antivaxxers', their motive is purely political.

Is this intended as a response to me? I'm not even an anti-vaxxer, I just don't feel the need to evangelize to the tune of hundreds of comments per day to satisfy my own self-importance ????.

 

Quote

They are mostly far right and belong to a demographic which is notorious for lack of empathy towards the underprivileged and minority groups. Their only goal is to ensure that the current US administration fails because the previous guy failed due to gross incompetence. They don't care who has to die to achieve this goal.

Was gonna bounce outta this chat but I guess I'll address this quickly in case it is regarding my comments.

 

I'm actually Canadian by nationality and not-a-white-person by ethnicity (ie, I get to check the minority box, so um check your privilege I guess). Just to bust that narrative rq.

[ozimoron]

55 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Is this intended as a response to me? I'm not even an anti-vaxxer, I just don't feel the need to evangelize to the tune of hundreds of comments per day to satisfy my own self-importance ????.

 

Was gonna bounce outta this chat but I guess I'll address this quickly in case it is regarding my comments.

 

I'm actually Canadian by nationality and not-a-white-person by ethnicity (ie, I get to check the minority box, so um check your privilege I guess). Just to bust that narrative rq.

no, it wasn't about you otherwise I would have replied to you.

[placnx]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

What’s your point?

 

5 million have died from Covid, it’s the worse plague in modern history. Trying to minimize it by framing statistics to mislead doesn’t help anyone.

The reality is closer to 15 million, and the economic and social fallout in the Third World will endure for a generation at least.

[Tony125]

Merkel Says Covid Spike ‘Worse Than Anything We’ve Seen’

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/merkel-says-german-covid-spike-120052541.html

 

 

Covid latest news: Germans will be 'vaccinated, cured or dead' by winter's end, warns health minister

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-latest-news-austria-plunged-073542040.html

[ozimoron]

Meantime, in Australia there's a revolt in the right wing of the ruling party against vaccine mandates and the PM is taking flak for siding with the protesters in the streets. He's a mini Trump and an election is coming. He knows who the base is.

[Tony125]

WHO advises people 60 or older to postpone travel due to Omicron

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/advises-people-60-older-postpone-194433324.html