Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[redwood1]

6 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Why? It's a fact. Vaccinated people can get the virus...they just are much less likely to get seriously ill.  They can also infect other people with the virus..

 

 

Are you saying this iA not true?

 

 

Sir... Please don't bring up facts, they make some people uncomfortable..... 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Health care in the US sucks if you don't have the right insurance. Which most don't. One reason I don't live there. Sadly.

So you're saying most don't have insurance or because you don't you think all are like you. I have overseas Blue cross/ blue shield. 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Why? It's a fact. Vaccinated people can get the virus...they just are much less likely to get seriously ill.  They can also infect other people with the virus..

 

 

Are you saying this is not true?

 

 

It is true, just much less likely than if not vaccinated.

[placnx]

17 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

In the US some Co's are recognizing natural immunity to be as effective as vaccination.

The owners should be sued if they prevent employees from getting jabbed, and the peons then develop serious illness. The God's Will defense will only work in a jury trial in certain states.

[placnx]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On what basis? If one is not to be resucitated why would anyone occupy a bed in which resucitation would be mandatory.

Even if that were true, they still couldn't do more than palliative care, as they would have no legal right to do more.

Being in an ICU doesn't mean that you will necessarily get to a state where it goes down to flipping the switch.

[cdemundo]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find the HCA troubling.

 

On the one hand letting people see the real outcomes of COVID is a god thing but on the other the HCA borders on mocking the afflicted.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I see absolutely nothing wrong with mocking COVID victims who themselves have used their influence and often their power to undermine the fight against this wretched disease, by all means give them what they deserve, they’ve earned it.

 

But I do not hold with mocking the very many people who they convinced with their lies and misinformation. Many of these people lack the intellect, education or have been directed away from science/medicine based advice, far too many others suffer emotional and mental health issues that have made them susceptible.

 

The last thing these people and the families they leave behind need is mocking.

 

Finally, I don’t think it helps pursued a single anti-vax adherent to take the vaccine.

 

If these people aren’t able to start asking questions when they hear the talking heads on TV ranting against vaccines have been vaccinated, ranting against mandates work in organizations that have for sometime mandated vaccination and rant against masks in front of a camera crew all wearing masks  - well no, mockery will not get to the parts logical arguments fail to reach.

 

It’s time to stop indulging these people and mandate vaccination.

You are right about the mocking, but I think the lovely vaccine hesitant have been given a pass almost everywhere in the discussion about the pandemic. The MSM has certainly bent over backwards to coddle them.

It seems to me that the HCAs provide a place where "the regular people" (as characterized by the Governor of Alabama, not a leftist) can express their feelings about those vax-hesitant people.

Additionally, without exception the people who get nominated have been outspoken in their ignorance and hate. To be straight forward about it, they have all been loudmouths. I haven't seen anyone who is an exception to this. 

 

I don't read the comments on HCA, just the re-postings so I don't see everything that is said.

 

I tend to agree that some of the people on HCA, are not blessed with education or intelligence.

I have felt compassion for some, the father who told his son "I didn't know, I didn't understand."

For me this is largely offset by the hatefulness and arrogance of many, regardless of their intelligence or education.

I am guilty of lacking compassion for most, but my conscience is not too troubled.

 

"Finally, I don’t think it helps pursued a single anti-vax adherent to take the vaccine."

 

Whether the sarcasm and mocking help or hinder, you must have seen the photos of vaccine cards from people who were convinced by reading the HCAs.

So the HCAs definitely are reaching some people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

Pfizer, BioNTech say COVID-19 booster shot showed high efficacy in large study

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-biontech-report-high-efficacy-covid-19-booster-shot-study-2021-10-21/

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

The owners should be sued if they prevent employees from getting jabbed, and the peons then develop serious illness. The God's Will defense will only work in a jury trial in certain states.

The Companies don't prevent employees from the jab, but for the employee who has natural immunity they are not forced to jab. Many don't trust the vaccines. Police dept. around the country are losing 100's of cops beacuse the cops are forced to jab or step down.

[Airalee]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:30 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Pricing violations were the most common reason for fines.

Wrong.  Stop spreading lies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

[Scott]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Companies don't prevent employees from the jab, but for the employee who has natural immunity they are not forced to jab. Many don't trust the vaccines. Police dept. around the country are losing 100's of cops beacuse the cops are forced to jab or step down.

And yet the main cause of death of police officers is Covid.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-police-officers-leading-cause-death/

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Sir... Please don't bring up facts, they make some people uncomfortable..... 

And how many of your posts have been hidden? You seem to love alternative facts.

 

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you're saying most don't have insurance or because you don't you think all are like you. I have overseas Blue cross/ blue shield. 

We went through this before, remember? I showed you links where insurance companies charged more for smokers.

 

I do have insurance.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Companies don't prevent employees from the jab, but for the employee who has natural immunity they are not forced to jab. Many don't trust the vaccines. Police dept. around the country are losing 100's of cops beacuse the cops are forced to jab or step down.

Only nutters who follow fake news don't trust the vaccine. Or those who don't care about the safety of others.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

Wrong.  Stop spreading lies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

No lie. Didn't read the link i guess.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Like the fat people, people who dont exercise, smokers, drinkers ...all this people self inflict their I'll esses upon themselves and then take up space in hospitals and use up resources that other people need 

 

 

The basis of my premise (and one that TBL was very happy to see I hold) is that nobody should be denied medical care when they need it.

 

Now you wade in with your off topic attempt at diversion waffling on about people who are overweight and smokers, and a number of others you are getting your hate up on..

 

Well yes it would be wonderful if these society wide health issues were not so society wide present, it would be even better if the risks they raise of serious illness, hospitalization and death could be drastically reduced by a couple of safe and effective vaccines.

 

The topic is COVID-19 and the safe and effective vaccines that dramatically reduce serious illness, hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19.

 

You could ask the mods to open a sub-forum on the other issues that concern you.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you're saying most don't have insurance or because you don't you think all are like you. I have overseas Blue cross/ blue shield. 

You just made the logical error you accuse jeffr2 of.

 

That you personally have insurance in no sense negates anything jeffr2 said.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Companies don't prevent employees from the jab, but for the employee who has natural immunity they are not forced to jab. Many don't trust the vaccines. Police dept. around the country are losing 100's of cops beacuse the cops are forced to jab or step down.

A little reading around the kinds of people who buy into anti-vaccine pseudoscience, conspiracies and faux fear mongering suggests these officers are doing their bit to raise standards in policing.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Why? It's a fact. Vaccinated people can get the virus...they just are much less likely to get seriously ill.  They can also infect other people with the virus..

 

 

Are you saying this is not true?

 

 

As has been explained many times, it’s an incomplete truth, the part you omit being that which is inconvenient to your point of view.

 

Not that that omission  necessarily implies you are being deliberately dishonest, you might simply lack the ability to process nuanced arguments.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.   Please stay on topic.  

 

[tifino]

never having described oursleves as antivax

- we are quite happy to sit it out and await Novavax  

 

 

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

never having described oursleves as antivax

- we are quite happy to sit it out and await Novavax  

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, placnx said:

I just hope that we will get to easy to administer vaccines with technology to have a broader effect on Coronaviruses.

 

The vaccine companies stage pricing on the ability to pay, so that the poorest countries don't have to pay. Of course these countries may need financial and organizational help in developing the public health infrastructure needed to distribute and administer mRNA vaccines. 

 

It would be good if the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) promoted an education campaign to counter anti-vax rumors such as the one about vaccines containing pork product.

So you are basically saying rich ( western ) countries are expected to pay for poor countries, and I did say western taxpayers are not going to be happy about that, especially when western businesses are in crisis from lockdowns and inflation is starting to bite.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, placnx said:

Being in an ICU doesn't mean that you will necessarily get to a state where it goes down to flipping the switch.

I disagree, but if it were true under normal conditions, I can't imagine they'd put someone with a DNR order into an ICU if the hospital is full of covid patients.

Edited October 22, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The basis of my premise (and one that TBL was very happy to see I hold) is that nobody should be denied medical care when they need it.

 

Now you wade in with your off topic attempt at diversion waffling on about people who are overweight and smokers, and a number of others you are getting your hate up on..

 

Well yes it would be wonderful if these society wide health issues were not so society wide present, it would be even better if the risks they raise of serious illness, hospitalization and death could be drastically reduced by a couple of safe and effective vaccines.

 

The topic is COVID-19 and the safe and effective vaccines that dramatically reduce serious illness, hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19.

 

You could ask the mods to open a sub-forum on the other issues that concern you.

 

I was very happy to see it, but I also believe that if, as some posters would like, unvaccinated people are refused admission to hospital care for covid infection, then all the people with self inflicted illnesses such as obesity and smoking related should also be refused. However, as it is unlikely that such would happen it's not an issue at all.

Everyone will continue to be admitted regardless of the cause, as has been the case up till now.

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you are basically saying rich ( western ) countries are expected to pay for poor countries, and I did say western taxpayers are not going to be happy about that, especially when western businesses are in crisis from lockdowns and inflation is starting to bite.

I think most p pole understand the virus has no respect of national boundaries and needs to be denied victims everywhere.

 

In the context of vaccines which businesses are suffering, certainly not those producing, filling, distributing and administering the vaccines.

 

Tax payers paying to fight a virus that is a threat to them and businesses seems like a fair use of taxes.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was very happy to see it, but I also believe that if, as some posters would like, unvaccinated people are refused admission to hospital care for covid infection, then all the people with self inflicted illnesses such as obesity and smoking related should also be refused. However, as it is unlikely that such would happen it's not an issue at all.

Everyone will continue to be admitted regardless of the cause, as has been the case up till now.

Unfortunately people have been denied treatment and have died as a direct result of hospitals being full of people who have refused COVID Vaccination:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Unfortunately people have been denied treatment and have died as a direct result of hospitals being full of people who have refused COVID Vaccination:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-afghanistan-veteran-dies-treatable-illness-wait-icu-bed

Then it's time to set up field hospitals to care for them. The army probably has a few in storage somewhere.

There is always a solution to a problem, though it may not necessarily be an agreeable one.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think most p pole understand the virus has no respect of national boundaries and needs to be denied victims everywhere.

 

In the context of vaccines which businesses are suffering, certainly not those producing, filling, distributing and administering the vaccines.

 

Tax payers paying to fight a virus that is a threat to them and businesses seems like a fair use of taxes.

 

 

I'd agree if the economy wasn't stuffed already. Does anyone want to see their ( great ) grandchildren paying for this?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Then it's time to set up field hospitals to care for them. The army probably has a few in storage somewhere.

There is always a solution to a problem, though it may not necessarily be an agreeable one.

You do know there’s a shortage of doctors, nurses and health service professionals?

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/10/1026577164/hospitals-face-a-shortage-of-nurses-as-covid-cases-soar

 

 

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As has been explained many times, it’s an incomplete truth, the part you omit being that which is inconvenient to your point of view.

 

Not that that omission  necessarily implies you are being deliberately dishonest, you might simply lack the ability to process nuanced arguments.

 

 

Ok..so if it's 'an incomplete truth' can you please tell me the rest of it to compete it then?  

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do know there’s a shortage of doctors, nurses and health service professionals?

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/10/1026577164/hospitals-face-a-shortage-of-nurses-as-covid-cases-soar

 

 

and how long have they had to train people to deal with covid patients?

One of the reasons that there is a shortage is that most people don't want to be nurses, because it's unpleasant work, unappreciated, full of bullies and under paid, which is why before corona nurses from places like the Philippines were in such demand.

However, it only takes a month to train people to a basic level of health care to work under supervision of a qualified nurse. That's how long it took my class of nurses before we were sent to the wards to work.