Why should I inject a vaccine that could kill me when I have no risk to be sick with covid ? A Thai boy told me, what can I reply him to push for vaccination ?

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, sucit said:

There isn’t misinformation yet. There is a lack of information.

 

People just do not get it.
 

One side is saying: “the vaccine is fine, it’s been studied and researched and the govt has approved it”. 

 

Well, that simply is not true. Just look at the facts and how all other vaccines are handled. This one was rushed. That’s a fact. There is no denying this.

 

In the end, it comes down to a group of people believing things that are yet to be proven. It’s very simple. Provaxxers are saying “it’s all ok,” when they don’t know that is the case yet, we don’t know of the long term effects of the vaccine. It’s a sharp contrast to what vaccine skeptics are saying, which is “we don’t know yet”… which is the TRUTH, no matter how you slice it. Whether you’re old or at risk and wanna take it is fine, but there is no doubt who is on the right side of this argument. 
 

Put another way, even if the vaccine proves to be perfectly safe in ten years, you are still wrong… because you were claiming the vaccine has been properly researched and we know future side effects when we did not. The other side who claim “we don’t know yet” will still have been right in this case. So you’ve wound yourselves into a lose lose argument without even knowing it, which is hardly unusual. 

Science is all about the odds. The question is how likely is it that the vaccine will have latent effects (long term effects doesn't mean what you think it means)? There's never been an instance where a vaccine is shown to have latent effects. On the other hand Ithere are at least 3 viral diseases that do have latent effects: the polio virus, the varicella (chickenpox) virus, and the human papiloma virus.  So if anyone is is  more likely to be doubly wrong, it's those who oppose vaccination. 

 

[Jeffr2]

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Science is all about the odds. The question is how likely is it that the vaccine will have latent effects (long term effects doesn't mean what you think it means)? There's never been an instance where a vaccine is shown to have latent effects. On the other hand Ithere are at least 3 viral diseases that do have latent effects: the polio virus, the varicella (chickenpox) virus, and the human papiloma virus.  So if anyone is is  more likely to be doubly wrong, it's those who oppose vaccination. 

 

Don't forget Covid.  I've got several friends still suffering more than a year after they got the virus.  Who knows how long they'll suffer.  Most are lung/breathing related issues.

[redwood1]

27 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Science is all about the odds. The question is how likely is it that the vaccine will have latent effects (long term effects doesn't mean what you think it means)? There's never been an instance where a vaccine is shown to have latent effects. On the other hand Ithere are at least 3 viral diseases that do have latent effects: the polio virus, the varicella (chickenpox) virus, and the human papiloma virus.  So if anyone is is  more likely to be doubly wrong, it's those who oppose vaccination. 

 

Maybe anti-vaxers are suffering from the latent and traumatic effects,of having to listen to so much yapping....

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Maybe anti-vaxers are suffering from the latent and traumatic effects,of having to listen to so much yapping....

Yeah, yapping from the fake news media outlets.  Sad they fall for the lies and misinformation.

[placeholder]

48 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Maybe anti-vaxers are suffering from the latent and traumatic effects,of having to listen to so much yapping....

Whereas pro-vaxxers suffer no effects at all from the feeble trolling that you engage in.

[Jai Dee]

A couple of posts containing misleading or distorted information from social media sources have been removed.

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, sucit said:

There isn’t misinformation yet. There is a lack of information.

 

People just do not get it.
 

One side is saying: “the vaccine is fine, it’s been studied and researched and the govt has approved it”. 

 

Well, that simply is not true. Just look at the facts and how all other vaccines are handled. This one was rushed. That’s a fact. There is no denying this.

 

In the end, it comes down to a group of people believing things that are yet to be proven. It’s very simple. Provaxxers are saying “it’s all ok,” when they don’t know that is the case yet, we don’t know of the long term effects of the vaccine. It’s a sharp contrast to what vaccine skeptics are saying, which is “we don’t know yet”… which is the TRUTH, no matter how you slice it. Whether you’re old or at risk and wanna take it is fine, but there is no doubt who is on the right side of this argument. 
 

Put another way, even if the vaccine proves to be perfectly safe in ten years, you are still wrong… because you were claiming the vaccine has been properly researched and we know future side effects when we did not. The other side who claim “we don’t know yet” will still have been right in this case. So you’ve wound yourselves into a lose lose argument without even knowing it, which is hardly unusual. 

Covid vaccines in the West have been properly researched.

 

You are the victim of Internet misinformation, I am so sorry for you.

 

 

 

[placeholder]

41 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Covid vaccines in the West have been properly researched.

 

You are the victim of Internet misinformation, I am so sorry for you.

 

 

 

What this anti-vaxxer point really boils down to is this: we don't know about the latent effects of vaccination. 

The problem with that position is that we do know that no vaccine has ever been show to have latent effects. Whereas several virus do in fact result in seriously painful or fatal latent effects. So if the question is whether covid-19 or vaccines are more likely to have unfortunate latent effects, the odds are that it will be covid-19.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Get the anti - vaxxers in USA to elect say ten of their number, who do not profit from their nonsense, as group representatives. Take those people to ten random Covid ICU Wards of their choosing. Show them the Patients, Speak to the Doctors, Examine XRays / MRI / CAT of Lungs & Hearts with Gaping Permanent Damage / Holes and Meet Long Covid Sufferers. Let these Reps. report back honestly to the anti- vaxx community. Watch that Movement crumble and rush to get vaxxed.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, sucit said:

So people from the fda actually admitting little kids need to be used as Guinea pigs.

 

Be a grown up, look at the source of this. They are admitting they don’t know the effects of the vaccine. Capiche? That should ring huge alarm bells. 
 

He then goes on to say using it on kids is somehow the best way to find out if there are harmful effects. And notice he’s NOT saying use it on a small group of children… but use it, presumably, on all the children in the world… without knowing the effects. And everyone is all on board. Quite the times we live in. Who would have ever thought our own neighbors would be the big brother from 1984

What utter nonsense. First off, how do you think  vaccines created in the past were tested? Do you think that researchers used Barbies? Teddy Bears? Ultimately, they've always been tested on children. Always. There is currently no other way.

As for what that person on a 7 second clip was really getting at, who knows? When someone abstracts a tiny quote (7 seconds!) out of what was clearly a larger context, it's pretty safe to assume that they're trying to put one over on us. And whether the people who push such suspect material are con-artists themselves or willing dupes, who cares? If you were running a courtroom, it's mascot would be a kangaroo.

[Scott]

False or misleading post reported and removed.

 

[Danderman123]

43 minutes ago, sucit said:

So people from the fda actually admitting little kids need to be used as Guinea pigs.

 

Be a grown up, look at the source of this. They are admitting they don’t know the effects of the vaccine. Capiche? That should ring huge alarm bells. 
 

He then goes on to say using it on kids is somehow the best way to find out if there are harmful effects. And notice he’s NOT saying use it on a small group of children… but use it, presumably, on all the children in the world… without knowing the effects. And everyone is all on board. Quite the times we live in. Who would have ever thought our own neighbors would be the big brother from 1984

Polio, measles, and chickenpox vaccines went through the same process. You may have been vaccinated for those diseases when you were young. If so, you were protected from those diseases.

 

Would you rather have contracted polio?

[Danderman123]

17 minutes ago, sucit said:

 

Can’t make it up. There’s no data yet, the guys from the fda who are on your side are telling you this, but let’s give the vax to kids and use them as Guinea pigs. And nobody even reacts (see above, you’re brainwashed). Inexplicable is the only word I have

Here is the data on clinical trials for children.

 

Your posts show an appalling lack of information, and a surplus of misinformation.

[Danderman123]

37 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I agree it's scary how willing those with no kids are to tell parents to vac their 5 yr olds.

So, you were never vaccinated when you were a child?

[Gottfrid]

On 7/28/2021 at 1:24 PM, Salerno said:

Ask him how old is siblings are, his parents, his grandparents, his aunts, his uncles, his cousins, his neighbours, his friends families, if anyone in his/his friends extended families or neighbours have existing health issues and then ask him how he would feel if he caught it and passed it on to these people and they died with the resulting consequences for those left behind.

 

Then explain although he may still catch it and be contagious the chances are less than if he's unvaccinated.

 

Then ask him to read reliable sources on the pros and cons of the current vaccines and about "long covid".

 

If he then still can't see it's not just about him, bid him and his family good luck.

 

Wow! That was a good post!

[EVENKEEL]

9 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, you were never vaccinated when you were a child?

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated?

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/#ixzz7AbRxrzyG

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

we were all vaccinated as kids. saved from horrific disabling diseases.our parents knew nothing of the vax clinical trial process. they trusted the medical authorities. so should we. ignore politicians and tv presenters on this. most broadsheet newspaper journalists are credible pro- science sources.

 

the clinical trial process is there if we want to see it. we may barely understand it. that doesn’t change anything. it is what the scientists have made it. they are the experts. we have rights and knowledge access.but we are not the experts here. we trust the aircraft and pilots when we fly. we may not understand how they work. we don’t need to. this is the same. find out about the Covid Death Process and Long Covid. Covid Vax DOES prevent this massively compared to normal immunity.

 

Delta is killing kids. Protect them with vax as medically advised. or dont and fail in your duty as parents. like those religious fools do when refusing medical treatment for their kids.who then die. do not be scared at all by covid vax. it’s an incredible SAFE human marvel.

 

find out what “pseudo- science” and “conspiracy theories” are. they are not properly evidenced. they have ALL been exposed scientifically, point by point. do not be irrationally skeptical. you know deep down the right thing to do. now do it.

[ozimoron]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:35 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Why are you hesitant then?  The vaccines are proven, impossible to deny that.  They save lives, that's been proven.  Just curious.

It's dead simple. It isn't about religion per se but politics. Religions (south of the Mason Dixon line mainly) align with politics very closely so the distinction gets blurred. You may notice that a lot of anti vaxers actually get the shots because life is too difficult / inconvenient if they don't. So, it's not an act of faith. Hypocritically, they get the vaccine but then expend huge amounts of time and energy trying to make the case why others shouldn't. Their stock in trade includes themes like constantly lying about the vaccines being experimental (FUD), the virus isn't all that dangerous anyway, overplaying the side effects of the vaccines, falsely claiming that the vaccines don't stop infection and transmission, whining about loss of personal freedoms, pretending that vaccines have never been mandatory, denying science and empirical evidence and a host of other deceptions.

 

The chief antagonists are almost always American and the grand scheme behind all of this is not about the virus at all so much a belief that the vaccine isn't deadly (the outright hoax meme had to be dropped just like climate change was a hoax and that has been dropped now) so much as a need to take a wrecking ball to everything in order to prove that the current guy is worse than the previous guy, whether it's the economy, defaulting on foreign debt, wanting the pandemic response to fail, failing to pass an infrastructure bill and so on.  This is a huge hurdle to leap and so nothing is off the table. They don't care what the cost of human suffering is because that's the measure of failure. This is the only way to get the previous guy back in office. The more wacky the story is the better because insanity is difficult to reason with using rational arguments. Do you get it now?

[ozimoron]

10 hours ago, sucit said:

One side is saying: “the vaccine is fine, it’s been studied and researched and the govt has approved it”. 

 

Well, that simply is not true. Just look at the facts and how all other vaccines are handled. This one was rushed. That’s a fact. There is no denying this.

 

Yes there is, when you refuse or are unable to post evidence to back up your assertions then there is a lot of denying this. People who can't substantiate their claims are rarely telling the truth, it's as simple as that.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

You seem to be both misinformed.

 

How do you know the vaccine doesn’t have a track record? How did you come to learn about the vaccine? What are your sources of information?

[redwood1]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

Good point.....There is zero reason to give vax to kids.....But some people will never get it because they have drank to much of the kool-aid....

[Scott]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

Your information is misleading.   Vaccines do prevent contracting Covid.  Breakthrough cases occur at a higher rate with the Delta variant but the efficacy in prevention is still strong.  If a breakthrough case occurs, transmission is less simply because the person is more likely to recover more quickly.  

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, sucit said:

Can’t make it up. There’s no data yet, the guys from the fda who are on your side are telling you this, but let’s give the vax to kids and use them as Guinea pigs. And nobody even reacts (see above, you’re brainwashed). Inexplicable is the only word I have

False, as usual.

PFIZER AND BIONTECH SUBMIT INITIAL DATA TO U.S. FDA FROM PIVOTAL TRIAL OF COVID-19 VACCINE IN CHILDREN 5 TO <12 YEARS OF AGE

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-submit-initial-data-us-fda-pivotal

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My kid here is Thailand received all kid shots. Doesn't mean I'm willing to subject her to a vaccine which doesn't have a track record, doesn't prevent her from contacting covid, doesn't prevent her from transmitting covid. The only reason to vac young kids is to placate pro vaxxers.

Turn off Fox News.  The vaccine has been proven to be safe with those under 18.  And MUCH safer than getting the virus.  22% of cases now are from those under 18.  The only reason not to vac young kids is due to anti vaxxers.

 

This is the result of clinical studies.  Sad anti vaxxers don't like science.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/20/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-safe-for-children-5-to-11-years-old

 

Pfizer says COVID vaccine safe for children 5 to 11 years old

Pfizer and BioNTech say trial results show the vaccine is safe and produces a robust immune response in children.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Good point.....There is zero reason to give vax to kids.....But some people will never get it because they have drank to much of the kool-aid....

Please, read this and get back to us.  Please.

 

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/oct/27/ask-politifact-children-are-far-less-likely-die-co/

 

Quote

Ask PolitiFact: Children are far less likely to die from COVID-19. Why do they need vaccination?

 

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Turn off Fox News.  The vaccine has been proven to be safe with those under 18.  And MUCH safer than getting the virus.  22% of cases now are from those under 18.  The only reason not to vac young kids is due to anti vaxxers.

 

This is the result of clinical studies.  Sad anti vaxxers don't like science.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/20/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-safe-for-children-5-to-11-years-old

 

Pfizer says COVID vaccine safe for children 5 to 11 years old

Pfizer and BioNTech say trial results show the vaccine is safe and produces a robust immune response in children.

Give it to your kid and get back to me. I'll bet you'll tell me you don't have a young one but you'll tell me it's all good. No thanks.

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Give it to your kid and get back to me. I'll bet you'll tell me you don't have a young one but you'll tell me it's all good. No thanks.

Doctors and scientists are giving it to their kids.  Only those who don't believe in science aren't.  Don't have a young one, but we are helping all our nieces and nephews get the Pfizer jab.  All of them.  And guess what?  They ALL want it!  It's the parents that are the problem.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

all western vax approved from three- phase clinical trials by gold standard US/ UK / EU medical bodies like FDA, CDC, EMA, MRSA. 

[EVENKEEL]

20 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Doctors and scientists are giving it to their kids.  Only those who don't believe in science aren't.  Don't have a young one, but we are helping all our nieces and nephews get the Pfizer jab.  All of them.  And guess what?  They ALL want it!  It's the parents that are the problem.

You're jumping the gun with your vaccine enthusiasm. One person on advisory panel declined to vote. hmm

https://www.voanews.com/a/fda-advisory-panel-recommends-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-for-children-5-11-years-old/6287630.html