Anyone else tired of the nonsense, and contemplating leaving Thailand?

[theoldgit]

I think this is a very interesting thread and, despite some of the barbed comments, probably one that many of us have considered over the years, I know I have.

 

I've only been here for forteen years, I don't own a property having managed to sell one about three years ago, happily married, well at least I am, and moved to the coast south of Bangkok some three years ago in nice rented accomodation.

 

Seven years ago I sufferred a heart whilst on a weekend break in Singapore, my wife got me to hospital, where I was resuscitaed and spent a month there before being able to return to Thailand, where I received further treatment and follow up checks to this day, I can't fault the care I received in Singapore and on my return to Thailand.

 

Out of the blue my wife suggested that we consider relocating to the UK, she was concerned that my health could deteriorate over the years and given my lack of insurance cover, the proceeds from my house sale remain my insurance cover, we might be better off in the UK where I would be covered by the NHS, and eventually we both would.

 

We went as far as visiting the UK, discussing our options with family and friends, looking for suitable areas, settling on the South Coast, and my wife even took an English Language test and we returned home fully intending to start the process, fully aware that she fully met the criteria.

 

It seems we were both having second thoughts which we had kept to ourselves, it was only after dinner one evening in a Wine Connection, that after the second bottle of wine we both confessed that we weren't sure, so put our plans on hold, deciding to move out of Bangkok instead.

 

To be quite honest I'm not sure that fast approaching my mid 70's I could cope with such a move, whilst the settlement application process for the UK wouldn't be too arduous for us, the finding of a suitable property would be, as would the actual move itself, and having to build our life all over again, credit references, no claim bonus etc, though my wife could get herself a nice new blue passport after five years, but it's value is somewhat diminshed since Brexit.

 

We have a pretty good life here, my pension goes a fairly long way, especially since the fall in the value of the Baht, but that may not last, we probably wouldn't have such a good life in the UK, on my demise my wife will receive 50% of my pension, index linked for life, and that would go further here than in the UK.

 

I don't have any feeling of being fully accepted here, I don't like the Government, but I'm not keen on the UK Government either, my feeling of not being accepted is reinforced every 90 days when I report that I'm still here, totally meaningless but their law, but more so when I renew my leave to remain ever year, am I going to get the very obnoxious and rude IO I had the misfortune of sitting in front of last year, I have to say it worried me for a week or so before my renewal, in the end I was processed by a very charming IO who couldn't have been more pleasant or efficient, but who will I get next year.

 

Who knows what the future holds, but whilst I'm content, I have no feeling of actually belonging here.   

[Farmerslife]

I have only recently retired here (April 2019) so my experience is nothing like as extensive as your's but I would be sorry to see someone driven out by the political situation.
I too don't like the current government and would welcome change. I actually believe covid may be the catalyst that finally stirs the public into demanding more from their leaders than their current placid acceptance.
 Although I am only a recent arrival, I have been visiting Thailand for around 35 years now and this is the first time I can recall the general public openly discussing their political masters with such anger and frustration. Even at the height of the red shirt/yellow shirt confrontations I don't remember this broad a level of distrust and dislike.
 In the past the vast majority have been more concerned with the daily grind of making ends meet than having the luxury to involve themselves in politics. It has been left to the reforming zeal of the young, the students, to demand change and as we all too sadly know that sense of injustice becomes subsumed by cynicism and reluctant acceptance as we age.
 But I really do sense a wind of change this time. Admittedly,  the odds are very highly stacked in the establishment's favour, they control the legislative bodies, the tanks and the guns, the money  and the goon squads all to suppress the clamour for reform but just maybe this time there will be sufficient numbers  to bring about change.

 Obviously you have thought long and hard about this, all you have invested in this country,  the enormous upheaval it would entail. Forgive me for saying so but reading your post you sound depressed by matters outside of your control rather than things that you have a direct input.
"Don't let the buggers grind you down", as they say. You have made your life here, it would be a huge shame to be driven out by an establishment that is losing popularity and respect by the day.

[Caspersfriend]

 

We can't [and shouldn't want to] escape from who we are. If we feel or sense negative influences around us, to the point that we enable them to affect our lives negatively, it doesn't matter where we choose to live. A glass have empty never becomes a glass half full merely by us changing our location. If we want change then we have to change.

[nobodysfriend]

5 minutes ago, Caspersfriend said:

 

We can't [and shouldn't want to] escape from who we are. If we feel or sense negative influences around us, to the point that we enable them to affect our lives negatively, it doesn't matter where we choose to live. A glass have empty never becomes a glass half full merely by us changing our location. If we want change then we have to change.

Nice post but I think that there is a huge difference if you live in harmony with your neighborhood or in a constant fight . that will greatly affect your mental ' wellbeing ' and make you sit in front of ' half empty glasses ' only ...

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

........... and make you sit in front of ' half empty glasses ' only ...

If my glass is half empty the girl in the 'Chang' dress isn't doing her job.

[Caspersfriend]

4 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Nice post but I think that there is a huge difference if you live in harmony with your neighborhood or in a constant fight . that will greatly affect your mental ' wellbeing ' and make you sit in front of ' half empty glasses ' only ...

And yet even your avatar is a dog philosopher.

[Caspersfriend]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If my glass is half empty the girl in the 'Chang' dress isn't doing her job.

I understood .. with sadness .. that those babes that stimulated the consumption of alcohol have since been banned.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Caspersfriend said:

I understood .. with sadness .. that those babes that stimulated the consumption of alcohol have since been banned.

Apparently not, my local booze shop seems to have one or two.

Bars are shut, so booze shops put tables and girls outside, police station 100m up the road .........

Amazing Thailand.

[Caspersfriend]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Apparently not, my local booze shop seems to have one or two.

Bars are shut, so booze shops put tables and girls outside, police station 100m up the road .........

Amazing Thailand.

Must have a word with my local pervayour ????

[Inala]

1 hour ago, kynikoi said:

Actually I am a student of history. Like the other poster you agree with me but then ramble on and taking some moral high ground while not entirely disagreeing with my position.

 

I never stated that the virus is not expected to disapate in strength merely that it will be with us forever. In fact, it's not even an especially problematic virus for those under 35.

Those over 60 and with underlying condition imo can expect problems forever as typical annual flu alone kills millions. While the danger of harm and dying has been over exaggerated for months it is and will be quite dangerous to older people and those with cardio problems.

 

You also touch on the now known fact the virus was engineered which is also a huge unknown for this particular virus.

 

The vaccines are proving worthless. Israel is now triple vaxxing. 

 

Question isn't whether you'll get it bc you will. Question is how you'll suffer it and come out on the other side

I didn't think I took a high moral ground? If I did, sorry I gave that impression, as I'm not a moralist by any means. Otherwise, I generally agree with your comments but have a slightly different view on some.

 

Most viruses attenuate over time due to the gradual acquisition of herd immunity in the general population.

 

The vaccines are proving effective (at least where I come from) in that they stop you from developing serious symptoms. Yes, it it is common knowledge that they don't stop you from contracting the virus, but if however they prevent you from becoming seriously ill and possibly dying, then that should be deemed as a degree of effectivity.

 

I agree completely that the danger has been exaggerated.

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, khunPer said:

Portugal is worth checking out, especially the Algarve area where I have happy friends living; and I've also been there, it's actually both good and relative affordable...????

 

I'm however not in the mood for leaving, Thailand is still as great as ever, even during the Covid-situation, because everywhere in the World it has at least temporary changed due of that. If you look at Europe, there have been numerous demonstrations against Covid restrictions; and still Thailand has statistically so far performed better than most European countries, even with the third wave included.

 

The baht have been strong during the military government, and some of the time thereafter in the semi-democratic, too strong baht for many of us expats, and presumable also for a number of tourists and for the export. The national dept vs. GNP lowered after the military steppen in from about 48% to around 42%, which could explain the stronger baht, and in general showed that the country is in good financial shape. However, the lately new loans, among others to cope with the pandemic, have increased the dept vs GNP back to a level before the military stepped in, and might be little more up about 50%, but borrowing money to cope with the pandemic have been the situation for any responsible government. Looking at statistics at debt vs GNP, Thailand is still doing (a lot) better than many Western countries, UK is for example over 80%, Europe in average around 70% - don't need to mention Greece and Italy - USA is over 100%. We expats might happily look forward to a period with a little bit more baht to spend, when exchanging our home-country's money.

 

Thailand might be different depending of where you stay, but I'm still happy, almost as ever, where I chose to settle, and I have so far no intentions of moving - but I admit that life was little beter before Covid changed the World, but when comparing to my Scandinavian home country, it's been better here...????

Thanks. Was looking at Portugal too. Wonder if housing is more affordable. Looking at Spain, and for 1000 euros a month, you do not get much. Not anything I would want to live in. And that is an awful lot more than I pay here. 

 

I am glad you like it here, but I completely disagree with your statement Thailand is as great as ever. Maybe for you. Maybe for some of us. Not for the average Thai, on any measurable level, even before Covid. 

[fredscats]

Certainly life lived before in Thailand has changed to the worse. Benidorm,anyone walking the sea front,the sparkling blue seas,bars,restaurants,lettings at a price below Thailands...its glorious,Im off ASAP    but stated before my mutts,all getting old, Im here for them at the mo

[fredscats]

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Thanks. Was looking at Portugal too. Wonder if housing is more affordable. Looking at Spain, and for 1000 euros a month, you do not get much. Not anything I would want to live in. And that is an awful lot more than I pay here. 

 

I am glad you like it here, but I completely disagree with your statement Thailand is as great as ever. Maybe for you. Maybe for some of us. Not for the average Thai, on any measurable level, even before Covid. 

Do not know where you are looking,maybe Costa del Sol is more expensive,but Benidorm and surrounding  really good......Portugal   nah  rains too much and is def more expensive

 

Just looked at rentals,so desperate to rent two months rent free  on some  higher standard than Thailand too,no underhand tactics  and you can bargain them down at least 20% less

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, bbabythai said:

Ive never heard about this. Has this been in the press? What is your evidence for this statement?

It is very well known. When Prayuth trashed the old constitution, it was re-written, and he installed half the senate to back his every policy and allow him a free reign. They must be removed, if Thailand ever has any hope of moving forward.

 

The 250 senators, appointed by the junta and approved on Tuesday by ++++++++++++++, have a large say in who leads the next government under a post-coup constitution ratified in 2017.

“There is no denying that the Upper House will be a tool to extend the junta’s power,” said Piyabutr Saengkanokkul of the Future Forward Party, which opposes military rule.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-election/a-third-of-thailands-appointed-senators-linked-to-military-police-idUSKCN1SK12J

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:14 PM, HeijoshinCool said:

Might as well hunker down, stock up, because things are only going to get worse. Our lives, as we have known and enjoyed them, are over. That's not pessimism, it's realism. Sad but true.

Not only is that not realism, it's not sad or true, either.

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I came to Thailand in 1990.  After reflecting on your question, I feel not much has changed in this time as it relates to the power structure (army, government and he that may not be mentioned) and it’s governance by this structure.  I am not saying I like it but it’s not a motivation for me to leave.  There will be the inevitable change in some of the players but it will just be ‘deja vu’ once again. It’s a system designed to enrich and empower a small elite that runs the country.  If this notion offends you … I think you will find much the same everywhere, albeit in a less naked display of corruption and power.  Finally, I am not sure what country you are from but things “back home” are not what they once were.  Every time I return to my home country (most recently July) I feel like more of a foreigner.  Most things have changed for the worse and generally seem to be moving in an extremely negative direction … starting with the destruction of freedoms and democracy.  Of course if you plan to leave Thailand and set up your own utopia on an island or off the grid you might be able to recreate the sensibilities you rightly long for.  Baring this, I would stay in Thailand as long as there are the good things you mention in your post.  It’s reliable and consistent and things are just going from bad to worse in Europe and North America.

Well, as I mentioned going back to live in the US, is NOT an option. It would have to be a very extreme scenario, as I find life back there to be super boring, super predictable, and fairly joyless, and as much as I hate the regime here, I have even less tolerance for the law enforcement state back there. I would always rather deal with corrupt, useless cops who mostly stay out of my face, than the type I run into in the US. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Somtamnication said:

She is equally tired of life here and the usual lies coming from BKK.

Does she actually believe that there are less lies in other countries?

If she does I have a bridge for sale.

[Somtamnication]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

Please excuse my ignorance ... what country is that ?

Wherever you are from, it is that one. 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not only is that not realism, it's not sad or true, either.

While it may get better in the future, IMO many of us oldies will not be around to see it.

IMO life has got steadily worse for the common man in this century, though it's been a gradual process so many may not have noticed.

Certainly, IMO, Thailand became less sanuk and more like the west.

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, Inala said:

You're obviously not a student of history. There have been pandemics for millenia. They all come to an end, one way or another. That's a simple, indisputable fact borne out by history. Covid is not vanishing, correct, but like the other many coronaviruses circulating on the planet, it's potency will be reduced by vaccinations and (eventual) herd immunity and life will return to normal as we exist alongside it. In the same way we live alongside bubonic plague, a bacteria which caused the worst pandemic(s) ever known to mankind and killed hundreds of millions. Covid19 is a little different, being more severe (transmissible) than the recent others of 1918, 1957 & 1968 as it had had it's properties altered by gain of function research before it entered into the human population. So there's that. But, in a few years time, history tells us it will be nothing more than a distant memory. Just bide your time. 

There is no evidence that Covid is more transmissible than the Spanish flu was. None. If anything it is to the contrary. And the Spanish Flu was infinitely more deadly. Of course, the medical facilities available then were not as good, but as we have seen, hospitals seem to have been only partially effective, when treating Covid, and respirators are of questionable value.

 

On September 29, the global COVID-19 death toll topped 1 million people, and as of November 17, the figure is 1,332,470 deaths, according to the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center. As of today, it is up to 4,249,322 deaths. We don't have an accurate death count for Spanish flu, but estimates range from 17 to 50 million people across the world, and there were possibly even more. The CDC says an estimated one-third of the world's population was infected with the virus, resulting in at least 50 million deaths.

 

And the world population was only 1.8 billion at the time. 

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/how-are-spanish-flu-and-covid-19-alike

 

Another huge difference was the apparent ability of the Spanish flu to take out younger, healthier people. It appears to have been far more deadly.

 

While the 1918 influenza killed a disproportionate number of 25–40 year olds, COVID-19 mostly affects those over the age of 65, especially those also with comorbidities. Those aged 25–40 year olds accounted for 40% of deaths from the 1918 influenza, whereas those in the 18–44-year-old range account for only 3.9% of deaths from COVID-19.

 

https://pmj.bmj.com/content/97/1147/273

 

[fredscats]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, as I mentioned going back to live in the US, is NOT an option. It would have to be a very extreme scenario, as I find life back there to be super boring, super predictable, and fairly joyless, and as much as I hate the regime here, I have even less tolerance for the law enforcement state back there. I would always rather deal with corrupt, useless cops who mostly stay out of my face, than the type I run into in the US. 

Yes US as boring as it can be, only two ntionalities mostly do not wish to return  yanks and krauts,brits it ain't so bad

[spidermike007]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does she actually believe that there are less lies in other countries?

If she does I have a bridge for sale.

Well, all politicians are liars. But, some are at least qualified, competent in their fields, have some expertise and experience in the areas they were appointed, are capable, decent leaders, and not totally despised by 95% of the masses. And some nations do not have systems that depend entirely on cronyism for appointments, and actually take merit into account! And some actually have free and fair elections. What a concept. And some nations actually believe in law and order, and do not have a completely compromised law enforcement system and justice system. 

 

That really sets Thailand apart. 

[spidermike007]

34 minutes ago, fredscats said:

Do not know where you are looking,maybe Costa del Sol is more expensive,but Benidorm and surrounding  really good......Portugal   nah  rains too much and is def more expensive

 

Just looked at rentals,so desperate to rent two months rent free  on some  higher standard than Thailand too,no underhand tactics  and you can bargain them down at least 20% less

Looking within 20 km. of Malaga, at the moment. So, you recommend Costa Blanca over Costa del Sol? I do hear the climate is milder. Cheaper too? Good info. Thanks alot for that. Good international airport in Valencia?

 

The places I have seen so far within 20-30 km. of Malaga, are overpriced, in my opinion. Not much quality for the money.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

I think this is a very interesting thread and, despite some of the barbed comments, probably one that many of us have considered over the years, I know I have.

 

I've only been here for forteen years, I don't own a property having managed to sell one about three years ago, happily married, well at least I am, and moved to the coast south of Bangkok some three years ago in nice rented accomodation.

 

Seven years ago I sufferred a heart whilst on a weekend break in Singapore, my wife got me to hospital, where I was resuscitaed and spent a month there before being able to return to Thailand, where I received further treatment and follow up checks to this day, I can't fault the care I received in Singapore and on my return to Thailand.

 

Out of the blue my wife suggested that we consider relocating to the UK, she was concerned that my health could deteriorate over the years and given my lack of insurance cover, the proceeds from my house sale remain my insurance cover, we might be better off in the UK where I would be covered by the NHS, and eventually we both would.

 

We went as far as visiting the UK, discussing our options with family and friends, looking for suitable areas, settling on the South Coast, and my wife even took an English Language test and we returned home fully intending to start the process, fully aware that she fully met the criteria.

 

It seems we were both having second thoughts which we had kept to ourselves, it was only after dinner one evening in a Wine Connection, that after the second bottle of wine we both confessed that we weren't sure, so put our plans on hold, deciding to move out of Bangkok instead.

 

To be quite honest I'm not sure that fast approaching my mid 70's I could cope with such a move, whilst the settlement application process for the UK wouldn't be too arduous for us, the finding of a suitable property would be, as would the actual move itself, and having to build our life all over again, credit references, no claim bonus etc, though my wife could get herself a nice new blue passport after five years, but it's value is somewhat diminshed since Brexit.

 

We have a pretty good life here, my pension goes a fairly long way, especially since the fall in the value of the Baht, but that may not last, we probably wouldn't have such a good life in the UK, on my demise my wife will receive 50% of my pension, index linked for life, and that would go further here than in the UK.

 

I don't have any feeling of being fully accepted here, I don't like the Government, but I'm not keen on the UK Government either, my feeling of not being accepted is reinforced every 90 days when I report that I'm still here, totally meaningless but their law, but more so when I renew my leave to remain ever year, am I going to get the very obnoxious and rude IO I had the misfortune of sitting in front of last year, I have to say it worried me for a week or so before my renewal, in the end I was processed by a very charming IO who couldn't have been more pleasant or efficient, but who will I get next year.

 

Who knows what the future holds, but whilst I'm content, I have no feeling of actually belonging here.   

Good points. Fortunately, I have never felt the "need to belong". I felt like an outsider, and certainly a black sheep in the US, and to this day, most of my family does not understand my desire not to live in the US, as do many Americans. However, there are a group of my friends who tell me they would trade places with me in a nanosecond.

 

I obviously have a huge distaste for the government and immigration here. Reporting every 90 days is ridiculous, and having to prove we are married once a year is dumber than dumb. But, it is what it is. And like many on this thread have stated over and over again, it is up to me to learn to be content (something I have not had to make much effort at, until recently), or leave. 

[fredscats]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

Good points. Fortunately, I have never felt the "need to belong". I felt like an outsider, and certainly a black sheep in the US, and to this day, most of my family does not understand my desire not to live in the US, as do many Americans. However, there are a group of my friends who tell me they would trade places with me in a nanosecond.

 

I obviously have a huge distaste for the government and immigration here. Reporting every 90 days is ridiculous, and having to prove we are married once a year is dumber than dumb. But, it is what it is. And like many on this thread have stated over and over again, it is up to me to learn to be content (something I have not had to make much effort at, until recently), or leave. 

You got the bug man,makes it easier to express yourself here too,weight off the shoulders.

 

I own nothing too,if I did Id string myself up  could not sell,lose the lot       You would like Benidorm beauiful sea fronts,evening strolls,good food/wine far cheaper  Spanish is easy too,France not far off

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, fredscats said:

You got the bug man,makes it easier to express yourself here too,weight off the shoulders.

 

I own nothing too,if I did Id string myself up  could not sell,lose the lot       You would like Benidorm beauiful sea fronts,evening strolls,good food/wine far cheaper  Spanish is easy too,France not far off

Thanks. Will definitely take a trip, and check it out soon. Have a good friend in Valencia. Love that area. And the proximity to France, as you say. And love Spanish wines. That would be one highlight of living there. And the food too. And I already speak decent Spanish, but it is of the Mexican variety. I have traveled all over Latin America, including Cuba many times, and can converse easily with the locals. But, I know the language is harder in Spain. But, I could adapt and learn. It would be infinitely more fun than learning Thai. Frankly, there is nothing about the Thai language I like. Nothing. Spanish sounds like music or poetry to me in comparison. And using the same alphabet is immensely easier, in addition to not having to deal with the ridiculous tones.

 

And the last part is the most important one. I find that throughout Latin America, when I am trying hard to be understood, people reciprocate that effort, and try hard to understand me. And I think they may be more creative, or more linguistically skilled than most Thais (able to dance in circles intellectually, to interpret and figure out an answer to an unfamiliar problem). You seem to get huge credit for trying to speak Spanish, even if it is very imperfect. I do not get any of that here. Nunca. Nada. Zero. You do not pronounce it perfectly here, we have no idea what you are saying! And there is no effort made to attempt to figure it out. Lame. Very lame. That gets very old. 

[Whale]

I am off, decided some time ago. It used to be lovely and quaint as well as nicely Wild West but as I am now older I just see it all has become a bit of a shhhiiittt hole. I would have gone sooner just trying to liquidate assets right now is not so easy. I will come back for 2/3 months a year over xmas but have decided being based elsewhere would be more interesting and suitable for my current wishes/needs from life. 

The government does not bother me, they are all cccrrraaappp all over. Kids are grown and gone their own path, wife divorced me a long time ago, time for an adventure with my Zimmer frame. 

[siftasam]

I love Spanish culture. So much traditionally beautiful with the pre-1500 mixture of races (Christian, Moors and Jews). Fabulous architecture e.g. Seville and Granada. Andalucia is the best region for that, I think.

 

I am a great music and art fan. I like some Thai pop even (although it's more and more 'Americanized' and dominated by Korea). Thai classical orchestras and ensembles are still way below European standards but improving. I'm a great jazz fan and remember  when, because of the late king's wonderful example, jazz was broadcast on TV with awards for promising young jazz players. Now? What do we have on Thai TV? Thais love their dramas etc. - good luck to them - but we know what we think. Added to that, good movie channels have disappeared. British and American <deleted> instead.

 

It's impossible to escapre <deleted> wherever you go, of course. BUT think Spanish classical guitar, Spanish gypsy jazz a la Django, excellent music and movie festivals, Velazquez, Goya, Don Quixote, Picasso, Miro...oh, so much more!

Spanish culture is exciting and vibrant and youthful. It has been for 100 years. Think Barcelona, the Gaudi architecture, the fabulous contrast between the Gothic cathedral and the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona.

 

I hope I can get there on holiday again, while carrying on living here in Thailand.

 

I do worry about the economy here. I think British banks often acted disgracefully, or indeed criminally, under Blair and Brown. My dealings with SCB and BKK here have been generally much better. Online SCB works extremely well BUT I will not close my account with the Halifax and move the money to Thailand. I fear the worst and despite similar compensation 'promises' as defaulting British banks supposedly have, I wonder how secure Thai banks really are in these pandemic days. At least Neil Woodford doesn't live or 'operate' here!

 

A great way to stay up to date with Spain for Brits is to have a free subscription to eyeonspain.com  - weekly newsletter, illustrated, fun, legal and property advice.

Enjoy!

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Thanks. Was looking at Portugal too. Wonder if housing is more affordable. Looking at Spain, and for 1000 euros a month, you do not get much. Not anything I would want to live in. And that is an awful lot more than I pay here. 

 

I am glad you like it here, but I completely disagree with your statement Thailand is as great as ever. Maybe for you. Maybe for some of us. Not for the average Thai, on any measurable level, even before Covid. 

Do you know Expatistan's Cost of Living World Map?

 

If not, it might be worth taking a look. When knowing places locally, you can live cheaper than the index suggests, but it seems to be all right as an overall guideline. It's based og Prague in Czech Republic (Europe) as index 100, and all other places' costs indexed from that point, i.e. for example New York 237, and London 238. Bangkok is not in the list at the moment, but used to be around index 100.

 

You can find two Portuguese cities, Lisbon (124) and Oporto (114), which might be of your interest for comparing costs. In Lisbon for example

"Monthly rent for 85 m2 (900 sqft) furnished accommodation in normal area, €857"

and in Oporto

"Monthly rent for 85 m2 (900 sqft) furnished accommodation in normal area,  €665".

 

My friends live in Faro, which is also a major tourist destination, a beautiful place, but I'm not sure if it's over or under average Portuguese living costs. My experience was that it was a very affordable place, but I originates from Copenhagen-area, with index 197...????

 

I know you and I have different views on Thailand, especially Koh Samui. The Thai people I know seems all quite satisfied - also before Covid - so it might be a question of which eyes and from which angle things are viewed...????

[JomtienRay]

I'm staying..

lived and had my own business in Thailand for many years. 

Thai wife, 5 kids..

I'm retired and divorced now.. family all live in Aus.

I moved us all to Aus about 13 years ago for the kids education, which in hindsight, was the only positive in the move.. 

The 10 years there were for me, the most stressful time of my life.. my wife turned into a narcissistic psychopath, believing and following advice from all the new Thai ladies she formed a group with, who were mostly old jealous bar girls who all wanted to be the "P"..

I'm 74 and underwent 10 years of medical trauma in Aus.. chronic heart failure, 9 operations to remove malignant cancer tumours, Chem X 5 times, radiotherapy X 3 times, chronic kidney failure.. the list goes on..

During this time, my wife firmed an opinion, based on the expert advice of he Thai friends, that she should not assist me in anyway, and wait for my certain death.. inherit everything and have a good time.. I was hospitalised 6 times with serious illnesses, and she chose not to visit me once..

Well.. thru perseverance, excercise, diet and medical assistance, I survived, much to her chagrin..

Retired now in Thailand last 3 years..

Spend about 6 months in Esarn in the farm, and 6 months in my condo on Jomtien beach.

Thru my 30 odd years living in Thailand, I've seen many government's come and go.. many changes in immigration etc, 3 coups.. 

AND.. at the end of the day, nothing much has changed for me here, over that time.

Have a new gf who causes me no stress and takes care of me very well.. a few great expat friends, and many Thai friends and ex colleagues..

And a GREAT life style..

Thank you Thailand..

I believe this govt WILL change within the foreseeable future, and life will continue and improve, after covid..

No greener pastures for me mate.. ????????????????????????????????