Rental "scam" is it something common here?

[dj230]

Just another thread as I am new to thailand figured its better to ask and sound stupid than not ask and feel stupid later on

 

Is the "rental scam" typical here where:

 

Unit is posted online for rental, but the person showing you the unit doesn't actually own it, they are renters themselves. They collect deposits/rent from multiple clients and then disappear?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

It happens, but it is not common.

Do you want to rent a house or an apartment/condominium?

If it is not a single house then there should be a management who you can ask who the owner is and sign the contract with the "owner" in front of the management.

 

[dj230]

50 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It happens, but it is not common.

Do you want to rent a house or an apartment/condominium?

If it is not a single house then there should be a management who you can ask who the owner is and sign the contract with the "owner" in front of the management.

 

It's a condo at life asoke rama 9

 

The real estate agent said the owner doesn't have a thai bank account so theres a receiver for him I have to send the money to, can you even buy a condo without a thai bank account?

 

maybe im getting a sublease and the agent isn't telling me?

 

The agent was 'verified' on propertyhub, is that hard to get or is it something you get just by signing up?

 

Also, oddly the agent sent me 2 forms, 1 form was the rental agreement, and 1 form was a "reservation contract"

the reservation contract had the agents name/ID on it and not the owners

 

Waiting for them to send me the rental agreement with the owners name on it, is it weird to ask them to show me the deed / proof of ownership of the condo unit?

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by dj230

[blackcab]

If the owner does not have a Thai bank account then are they present in Thailand?

 

If they are not, who is going to register your TM30? If it is going to be you, will you be able to get a signed copy of any necessary documents, such as the owners ID or the condo blue book?

 

Or is the owner able to register your TM30 online?

 

There are so many units for rent I would steer clear of any with obvious issues.

[dj230]

5 minutes ago, blackcab said:

If the owner does not have a Thai bank account then are they present in Thailand?

 

If they are not, who is going to register your TM30? If it is going to be you, will you be able to get a signed copy of any necessary documents, such as the owners ID or the condo blue book?

 

Or is the owner able to register your TM30 online?

 

There are so many units for rent I would steer clear of any with obvious issues.

wow thanks for reminding me about the tm30, i think it can be done online though, but i'll be sure to mention/ask

 

Thanks for the advice, I've passed on a few units already, I found real estate agents have been hit or miss, usually those not from companies are more sketchy, I am guessing they're freelancing or running a side gig with a few friends.

 

i found a decent hotel in phrompong thats the same price as 1 month rent anyways so I am not in a rush to sign a 1 year lease, and amenities are closed anyways so it's not like the condo offers much over a hotel. But prices are really low right now (from what i can tell as a newbie in thailand), looked for 2 weeks and could tell which condos had more demand as units were getting rented and at what prices. 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by dj230

[scubascuba3]

TM30 is a good point, some landlords don't want to do it, kinda your problem, ensure that is in the contract that the owner or agent does it.

 

The scam op mentions must be rare, I haven't seen anyone mention it on this forum or facebook

[Tarteso]

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Tarteso

[ezzra]

Every condo has it's juristic person office, it would be a good idea to pop in or phone them to ask who is/are the owners of said unit, that way you'll know for sure...

[JayClay]

17 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

Every thread about property rental has the obligatory "you'll never get your deposit back" post. Congratulations.

 

And every such post has an obligatory counter post so I may as well take that honour.

 

I have always gotten most if not all of my deposit back in usual situations. In situations where I've had to terminate the lease early, then obviously the deposit has been usually taken from me, as expected. But even in one of those situations, I unexpectedly received some of my deposit back.

[Tarteso]

6 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Every thread about property rental has the obligatory "you'll never get your deposit back" post. Congratulations.

 

And every such post has an obligatory counter post so I may as well take that honour.

 

I have always gotten most if not all of my deposit back in usual situations. In situations where I've had to terminate the lease early, then obviously the deposit has been usually taken from me, as expected. But even in one of those situations, I unexpectedly received some of my deposit back.

That falls within the law of probability ... You are right.  

[saakura]

35 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

I completely agree with this.

[Crossy]

Way back when we rented our condo it was all arranged with the condo management company. Deposit duly paid (2 months at the time), receipts for rent and water every month (electricity was direct to PEA). All good.

 

After about 2 years a nice lady turned up at the door to check on "her" unit. It turns out she really was the owner and the management company hadn't been sending her the rent (or told her they'd rented the unit)!

 

All sorted amicably, we started paying the rent directly (we stayed another 6 years). 

 

The condo management company was fired (all sorts of irregularities were uncovered by the new management). I never found out if the owner got her money.

 

 

[Ralf001]

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

If the owner does not have a Thai bank account then are they present in Thailand?

 

If they are not, who is going to register your TM30? If it is going to be you, will you be able to get a signed copy of any necessary documents, such as the owners ID or the condo blue book?

 

Or is the owner able to register your TM30 online?

 

There are so many units for rent I would steer clear of any with obvious issues.

My landlord is not in country so unable to do the TM30 so as the house master I did it myself.

[dj230]

4 hours ago, Tarteso said:

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

So do I just not pay last months rent/utility bill and tell them to deduct it from the deposit? lol 

 

  

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

TM30 is a good point, some landlords don't want to do it, kinda your problem, ensure that is in the contract that the owner or agent does it.

 

The scam op mentions must be rare, I haven't seen anyone mention it on this forum or facebook

Isn't it his responsibility? 

Thanks for letting me know, I remember I did see the owner being responsible for TM30 reporting in some leases but not all.

 

 

So just to update, the agent is telling me the owner wants to send the money to a "person of authorization" / POA 

Edited August 12, 2021 by dj230

[blackcab]

6 hours ago, dj230 said:

So just to update, the agent is telling me the owner wants to send the money to a "person of authorization" / POA 

 

Tell the agent you want that in writing from the owner, with a signed copy of their ID card/passport and a copy of the chanote as well.

 

Explain to the agent that this is very unusual, and you need to protect yourself in case the owner claims they have not received payment at a later date. Explain that you need to be sure who owns the unit and that it is their ID and letter of authority that you are receiving.

 

Personally, if this was not forthcoming I would not sign the lease.

 

It is an extremely irregular situation. So irregular, in fact, that I have never come across it before except for cases of fraud.

 

You might also want to have a video chat with the owner aswell.

[dj230]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Tell the agent you want that in writing from the owner, with a signed copy of their ID card/passport and a copy of the chanote as well.

 

Explain to the agent that this is very unusual, and you need to protect yourself in case the owner claims they have not received payment at a later date. Explain that you need to be sure who owns the unit and that it is their ID and letter of authority that you are receiving.

 

Personally, if this was not forthcoming I would not sign the lease.

 

It is an extremely irregular situation. So irregular, in fact, that I have never come across it before except for cases of fraud.

 

You might also want to have a video chat with the owner aswell.

Yea, this raised an eyebrow which is why I made this thread, maybe some sort of tax evasion/illegally subletting the room. 

 

I asked for a document for proof of ownership of the unit, they said they will send it after I sign the booking agreement, I might do it but I wouldn't send them a dime until I see all the documents of the proof of ownership, owner signing the form for the thai receiver and the owners id/passport on the rental agreement

 

She said the company is a chinese rental management company called "Top Ocean Company" which shows little to nothing on google. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by dj230

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

38 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Tell the agent you want that in writing from the owner, with a signed copy of their ID card/passport and a copy of the chanote as well.

Immigration demanded all this from us, house book and chanote, just for our change of address. We also had to redo the contract three times, because they didn't like this or that in whichever place. We were real lucky both the owner and condo juristic person were very cooperative. Be sure yours are.

 

But when I moved out here to Issan, just copies of my father-in-law's ID card and house book, and we were done.

 

Only time I'll be staying in or around BKK ever again is at a hotel, on a holiday.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, dj230 said:

She said the company is a chinese rental management company called "Top Ocean Company" which shows little to nothing on google. 

 

There are 4 currently registered companies containing the words Top Ocean. You would need the company number to be certain which one it was.

 

If the condo is owned by a company then you will need a copy of the company DBD issued within the last three months. The DBD will state the company director names and also how many directors are required to sign in order to bind the company.

 

To complete the lease you will need an original signed lease, a company DBD dated within 3 months, a letter of authority granting you permission to pay an alternative person signed by the correct number of directors and the signed ID of those directors.

 

The lease, the letter of authority and the DBD document will need to have the company stamp on them as well as the director's signatures.

 

This should all be prepared and present at the time you sign the lease. At this time you will need to give the agent a signed copy of your ID.

 

You need to be certain who is responsible for refunding your deposit. This should be clearly stated in the lease.

 

If paying by bank transfer you should permanently keep a copy of all transfer slips.

 

If you miss any of these details then everything could be fine, or it could go completely wrong.

[dj230]

5 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

There are 4 currently registered companies containing the words Top Ocean. You would need the company number to be certain which one it was.

 

If the condo is owned by a company then you will need a copy of the company DBD issued within the last three months. The DBD will state the company director names and also how many directors are required to sign in order to bind the company.

 

To complete the lease you will need an original signed lease, a company DBD dated within 3 months, a letter of authority granting you permission to pay an alternative person signed by the correct number of directors and the signed ID of those directors.

 

The lease, the letter of authority and the DBD document will need to have the company stamp on them as well as the director's signatures.

 

This should all be prepared and present at the time you sign the lease. At this time you will need to give the agent a signed copy of your ID.

 

You need to be certain who is responsible for refunding your deposit. This should be clearly stated in the lease.

 

If paying by bank transfer you should permanently keep a copy of all transfer slips.

 

If you miss any of these details then everything could be fine, or it could go completely wrong.

i decided to pass just because of how sketchy it was, all the other real estate companies I've talked to show up on google and have websites/social media/reviews

[jackdd]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

TM30 is a good point, some landlords don't want to do it, kinda your problem, ensure that is in the contract that the owner or agent does it.

Just do the TM30 yourself, then you don't have to rely on other people.

Of course you need to make sure that you get a signed copy of the owner's ID card and a signed copy of the house book of the condo/house which you are renting, together with the rental contract.

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

Just do the TM30 yourself, then you don't have to rely on other people.

Of course you need to make sure that you get a signed copy of the owner's ID card and a signed copy of the house book of the condo/house which you are renting, together with the rental contract.

It's the signed copy of ID and house book that can be the problem, of course the TM30 is easy and maybe once only

[Tich]

Every kind of scam that you could possibly conceive is common place here !

[chilly07]

Sounds like a proposed scam. Good luck with that. 

Check original land registry document for Proof of ownership. Make sure you are dealing with the owner not an intermediary!

[dj230]

Just now, Tich said:

Every kind of scam that you could possibly conceive is common place here !

The more I talk to real estate agents the more scams I am finding out about

 

So long story short, another unit I was looking at, I negotiated a price, real estate agent 1 said the price was accepted by the owner. They sent me a lease and everything, I sign the lease and send it back. Next thing I know, the owner gets another offer for more, so I negotiate again, we agree, then same thing happens, I say nevermind.

 

I see another ad listing for the same unit so I messaged to see if the unit is still available, a different real estate agent responds and assuming he can't find offers like he said I asked if the owner would agree to the original offer. So the 2nd real estate agent says he never accepted that offer, nor any of the other ones I made that was "supposedly accepted".

 

Also lots of price luring and baiting, posting ads for one price/unit and then saying it's rented and then responded with another unit that is subpar or the price is around 50% higher. 

 

Decided I will ask to speak directly to the owner now.

 

 

[dj230]

6 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Sounds like a proposed scam. Good luck with that. 

Check original land registry document for Proof of ownership. Make sure you are dealing with the owner not an intermediary!

I think I know what happened, but it's just a guess.

I think I was getting a sublet /sub lease, which is why they wanted me to send money to a different person.

They at first told me the owner had no thai bank account, which doesn't even make sense. They said he was from China and I said I can send him wechat pay to his bank in China. Then they said the owner doesn't want to have to manage the unit so I can't send money to him.

I ended up passing

Edited August 14, 2021 by dj230

[scorecard]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:42 AM, blackcab said:

If the owner does not have a Thai bank account then are they present in Thailand?

 

If they are not, who is going to register your TM30? If it is going to be you, will you be able to get a signed copy of any necessary documents, such as the owners ID or the condo blue book?

 

Or is the owner able to register your TM30 online?

 

There are so many units for rent I would steer clear of any with obvious issues.

Plenty of condos available for rent, look further. 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:10 AM, Tarteso said:

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

Nonsense.   Don't believe him.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:21 AM, ezzra said:

Every condo has it's juristic person office, it would be a good idea to pop in or phone them to ask who is/are the owners of said unit, that way you'll know for sure...

No JP will disclose that to a total stranger.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Tich said:

Every kind of scam that you could possibly conceive is common place here !

...and everywhere else.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:10 AM, Tarteso said:

The only scam there is in this country,  regarding the Rent of a House or whatever you want to rent, is that you have very little chance or nothing of recovering the Deposit.  It seems that Thais takes for granted that the deposit is a GIFT… Believe me.

After your throwing out of that over-generalised accusation against Thais, I'd be curious to know how many times you have been "scammed" that way.