Thailand’s ‘mix and match’ vaccine policy creates hurdles for people travelling to UK, EU

[jacko45k]

Just now, NongDaeng said:

My wife is a Dr here, so far she's had 2x Sinovac (ineffective), 1x AZ booster and most recently 1x Pfizer booster. All in the space of 1 year. 

Crikey.... what a waste of time and effort with ineffective vaccines. 

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Dear readers. Do not believe what Rupert the Bear typed.

 

I do agree if you can get Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, or AstraZeneca in lieu of SinoVac, at the same time as SinoVac being available, DEFINITELY  go for those other vaccines instead of Sinovac.

 

BUT if Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, or AstraZeneca  are not available to you for many months, think of what will become of you and your family, your job, if you become very ill (or die) because you waited for a better vaccine, that could be many months away.  The best vaccine is the one you can get.

 

Sinovac while not as good as the vaccines noted, saves lives. Yes - it saves lives. This has been proven, and anyone who states Sinovac is "basically useless" is flat out wrong.

 

Um, you also forgot to mention that depending on the individuals immune system, they may have had it, not knowing they had it, and they stand a good chance looking at the % of those surviving vs those dying, personally, I will take my chances and wait for the better vaccine while isolating until it's available, choice really, no Sinovac for me thanks. 

[NongDaeng]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Crikey.... what a waste of time and effort with ineffective vaccines. 

Yeah, her hospital tested antibodies on all the Dr's post vaccine, some were protected better than others, my wife had very little immunity from it. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by NongDaeng
Spelling

[gungadin1]

Be lucky to get any vaccine at the moment,whatever it is

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Um, you also forgot to mention that depending on the individuals immune system, they may have had it, not knowing they had it, and they stand a good chance looking at the % of those surviving vs those dying, personally, I will take my chances and wait for the better vaccine while isolating until it's available, choice really, no Sinovac for me thanks. 

I have friends who are antivaxers.

 

While waiting, I recommend staying fit, eat healthy, isolate where possible, and follow government guidelines for mask wear and isolating ...

 

Stay safe!

[Scott Tracy]

15 hours ago, khunpa said:

The whole thing is just a complete mess worldwide.
 

One thing this Pandemic has shown us all, is how totally disconnected and screwed up the world, it’s leaders and organizations are. Selfish narrow-minded morons… all of them.

I can't agree more. All the vaccines are signed off by WHO. A vaccine produced in Thailand is no different to that produced elsewhere. Astra Seneca has signed off on that, as an example. Otherwise, why put their name to it?I

As for mix and match, I'm not an immunologist, but why would it not be OK? The vaccines all work, to a certain level, against all known strains of the virus, and thus, in my albeit, uneducated view, should be OK, yes?

Talk about reinventing the wheel multiple times. Surely, if it's given the nod by WHO, all countries should accept it. 

Seems stupid to me, that a vaccine approved by WHO has to be approved by each of the 193 sovereign states et al.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Scott Tracy
Added last paragraph.

[Gsxrnz]

I've just popped over from the thread discussing the pro's, con's, desirability, durability, and practicality of handbags - the conclusion was that Vuitton was the most desirable, Klein was more classical, but Gucci won the day for desirability and cost.

 

So how are we looking on the great vaccine debate?  I'm off to the thread discussing carrot cake shortly - there is a serious issue as to whether granulated or brown sugar should be used.  Personally I think the debate regarding 1 or 1 1/2 teaspoons of vanilla extract is the real issue.

 

(irony or satire - up to you)

[suestra29]

Pinocchio and Anutin cannot think beyond the next brown envelope. They are causing so much unnecessary problems. 

[Scott Tracy]

17 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I have friends who are antivaxers.

I'm sure some of them have good reason for their firmly held beliefs. But I will have no truck with those who, unless there is good medical reason why they should not be vaccinated, decline the offer.

I'm my view, they are selfish, dangerous to themselves and others. 

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, Scott Tracy said:

I'm sure some of them have good reason for their firmly held beliefs. But I will have no truck with those who, unless there is good medical reason why they should not be vaccinated, decline the offer.

I'm my view, they are selfish, dangerous to themselves and others. 

I also believe in the benefit of vaccines against this virus.  My friends' view is "their view" ( not mine) and at least they have sufficient common sense ( in my view) to work hard to stay fit, eat healthy, isolate ... Sadly many antivaxers are not that smart to stay fit, although I believe my friends would be better off to go for a vaccination.

[khunjeff]

41 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

 Deleted since it's impossible to edit out my incorrect attribution of the original post to boomer69 instead of boomer6969 - apologies.@boomer69 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by khunjeff

[Guderian]

15 hours ago, Johnny Mac said:

Mmmm, interesting. I've had 1 sinovac already, (2nd dose of AZ on he 27th) maybe a mistake? who knows. I have no plans to go to the UK soon but maybe next year. What a <deleted> world we live in now.

Yeah, after decades of resisting the pressure to introduce a national ID system due to concerns over privacy, the pandemic has allowed a far more intrusive and potentially powerful state database to come into existence to control many aspects of our lives. You watch, it's not going away and sooner or later it will be extended to include stuff like your annual carbon allowance. Computer says no, you can't go into a pub because you haven't had the right vaccines. Computer says no, you can't book a flight to Thailand because you don't have enough carbon credits left. Orwell would have been astounded by just how quickly this is happening to us, it didn’t need decades of war and military dictatorship, it's all happening under a supposedly libertarian PM.

[pentagara]

54 minutes ago, Clydesdale said:

Those who took the decision early on limited information to take Sinovac now have to suffer the consequences. Those who were (or had to be) more patient and took the decision to hang on for AZ, Pfizer or Moderna (on slightly less limited information) are clearly now in a better position at least for the time being. The rush to be near the front of the queue to get vaccinated first did not look overly smart then and certainly doesn't now.     

Disagreed. It's useful to be vaccinated, when cases are high - like right now in Thailand. Barely anyone has two AZ now (one AZ doesn't help with delta), and even less in Thailand have two Biontec/Pfizer or Moderna, unless they are hiso and such or got it abroad, since these are in very high demand also among the Thai, not just the foreigners.

 

Since both Sinovac and Pfizer loose efficacy after roughly 6 months (Sinovac a bit quicker) if you're not infected within this time, it's not a big deal if you get boosters in 6-12 months. Boosters are likely advisable in any case (depending on the mutation situation then), plus the booster then should also take care of the travel issue.

 

If you need to travel right now though to a country that has vaccines and is picky about them, just bite the quarantine bullet (10 days home quarantine - hey that's a walk in the park compared to Thai rules) and then take care of vaccinations there, be it booster or first time shots.

 

As for those who say Sinovac is useles (or even Pfizer is useless with Moderna being the last remaining): You might feel that way, but the numbers prove you wrong. Chile largely used Sinovac, has a very high vaccination rate (about 70% of the full population fully vaccinated, i.e. two jabs) and has now a case load of 50 new infections per day per 1m people. Switzerland has 50% of the population fully vaccinated (only mRNA) and has a caseload now of 259 per day per 1m. The threshold found in most countries incl. Israel for vaccinations to start showing an impact on the incidence numbers is about 50% fully vaccinated.

Now, Thailand has 7.5% of the population fully vaccinated (reminder: one single AZ shot shows no impact against delta, 90% of infections are now delta). Basically Thailand is still unvaccinated on a population level, and that is not because of Sinovac. Official case load is 312 per day. In contrast to Switzerland, more people in Thailand wear masks which seems to prevent numbers spiralling completely out of control like they did in India.

 

Long story short: The issue of Thailand is not that it has used Sinovac. If it had vaccinated people with Sinovac like Chile did, numbers would be low now. The issue of Thailand is that the country decided last year that it can wait with mass-vaccinations until June 2021 (reminder: now is August 2021) and on top decided that it only needs to buy vaccines that would cover about 50% of the population. Both were miscalculations.

[sikishrory]

I thought the "thai made" az gets exported anyway and the az people receive here is from other countries like japan for instance.

Looks like a bit of a shimozzle

[club]

8 minutes ago, pentagara said:

Disagreed. It's useful to be vaccinated, when cases are high - like right now in Thailand. Barely anyone has two AZ now (one AZ doesn't help with delta), and even less in Thailand have two Biontec/Pfizer or Moderna, unless they are hiso and such or got it abroad, since these are in very high demand also among the Thai, not just the foreigners.

 

Since both Sinovac and Pfizer loose efficacy after roughly 6 months (Sinovac a bit quicker) if you're not infected within this time, it's not a big deal if you get boosters in 6-12 months. Boosters are likely advisable in any case (depending on the mutation situation then), plus the booster then should also take care of the travel issue.

 

If you need to travel right now though to a country that has vaccines and is picky about them, just bite the quarantine bullet (10 days home quarantine - hey that's a walk in the park compared to Thai rules) and then take care of vaccinations there, be it booster or first time shots.

 

As for those who say Sinovac is useles (or even Pfizer is useless with Moderna being the last remaining): You might feel that way, but the numbers prove you wrong. Chile largely used Sinovac, has a very high vaccination rate (about 70% of the full population fully vaccinated, i.e. two jabs) and has now a case load of 50 new infections per day per 1m people. Switzerland has 50% of the population fully vaccinated (only mRNA) and has a caseload now of 259 per day per 1m. The threshold found in most countries incl. Israel for vaccinations to start showing an impact on the incidence numbers is about 50% fully vaccinated.

Now, Thailand has 7.5% of the population fully vaccinated (reminder: one single AZ shot shows no impact against delta, 90% of infections are now delta). Basically Thailand is still unvaccinated on a population level, and that is not because of Sinovac. Official case load is 312 per day. In contrast to Switzerland, more people in Thailand wear masks which seems to prevent numbers spiralling completely out of control like they did in India.

 

Long story short: The issue of Thailand is not that it has used Sinovac. If it had vaccinated people with Sinovac like Chile did, numbers would be low now. The issue of Thailand is that the country decided last year that it can wait with mass-vaccinations until June 2021 (reminder: now is August 2021) and on top decided that it only needs to buy vaccines that would cover about 50% of the population. Both were miscalculations.

The one jab of Sinovac IS USELESS AGANST Delta . Then they have been giving AZ jab 3 weeks later. But the first jab gives you very little protection

[jeanrem]

Anyway.. you enter in some countries that are ok with it and then travel into EU. Only UK is an issue.

[Boomer6969]

54 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

 Deleted since it's impossible to edit out my incorrect attribution of the original post to boomer69 instead of boomer6969 - apologies.@boomer69 

 

Yes I know I am greedy, this number has nothing to do with my age, it reveals only my worship of the the Venusian hills. 

[Scouse123]

17 hours ago, Johnny Mac said:

Totally agree with all that. One of my bugbears about this whole disaster is how easily many have just accepted it, it really is a new normal, and talking about vaccines as if they are fashion accessories..Like yourself for me it's pretty much over, it's more the youngsters I feel sorry for the most.

 

I detest the world today, think I will just end up existing in a Thai village somewhere, the modern world can go whistle..

Post deleted by myself as off topic and contributes nothing except making me feel better.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Scouse123

[HaoleBoy]

15 hours ago, overherebc said:

Don't see why Thai made AZ won't be accepted. From what I read samples were/are sent to uk for QC checking so why shouldn't uk accept two AZ jabs.

To make it even more bizzar is "which" AZ did you get in Thailand.  Did you get the donated AZ from Japan, or UK?  Or did you get the local Thai AZ or bought AZ from S. Korea?

 

Does the Thai vaccine passport state which "lot" you got the AZ from?  If so then various Gov's can figure out which vaccine you got ... if they aren't mixed AZs.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, club said:

The one jab of Sinovac IS USELESS AGANST Delta . Then they have been giving AZ jab 3 weeks later. But the first jab gives you very little protection

You miss the point of that 1st Sinovac jab.

 

The one jab of any 2-jab vaccine  is not very effective vs Delta.  This is made clear in MANY news articles about studies on vaccine use.

 

Further, there are articles that talk of studies that noted 1-jab AstraZeneca was at most about only 33% efficacy vs Delta.  However 2 AstraZeneca is close to 60% (more if you read other articles).

 

So its VERY clear 2-AstraZeneca jabs are FAR MORE effective than only 1-AstraZeneca jab. ... So why is that relevant here?

 

Because, as I have posted a number of times on this - a Thai study has shown that 1-Sinovac + 1-AstraZeneca is almost as effective as 2 AstraZeneca jabs wrt the quantity of antibodies.  ... ie. that first Sinovac is useful when followed up by an AstraZeneca jab.

 

Sure, going for 2 AZ would be ideal, if Thailand had that many AZ. They don't have that many. The local Thai AstraZeneca production plant will not provide to Thailand the quantity of AstraZeneca Thailand wants.  Further, Thailand can not get mRNA doses until Q4-2021 and possibly not until Q1-2022.

 

So the 1 Sinovac + 1 AstraZeneca is a good approach for those who want to be more safe and be vaccinated now, and where international travel is not an issue for them.

Edited August 19, 2021 by oldcpu

[bougnat]

18 hours ago, khunpa said:

The whole thing is just a complete mess worldwide.
 

One thing this Pandemic has shown us all, is how totally disconnected and screwed up the world, it’s leaders and organizations are. Selfish narrow-minded morons… all of them.

 

Well, I guess we can look forward to not being able to travel certain places without taking several different vaccines. Of which we still don’t know the effects of these “cocktails”. 

 

Add to that the possibility of not being allowed to socialize and live “normally” unless you have a certain vaccine in different countries.

 

A total exposure of a screwed up world. If this virus mutates to something more deadly and kills most of us, we kind of deserve it.

I totally agree, but we have known for a long time that bastards rule everywhere. We knew that it takes at least 18 months to make a REAL vaccine. Why, if you're under 70, you've been stuck on this <deleted>, like shipwrecks ... Fear is always a bad counselor. We all have brain, it s not forbidden to use it from time to time.

[chilly07]

16 hours ago, Whale said:

I hope they get on with it fast. I have my second AZ (a god and Anutin willing) in September and I am keen to return to the UK for a while without the impediment of quarantine. If the stars align I will be a happy camper.

If your determined to travel you should willingly accept quarantine to protect yourself and others. People on ASEANNOW seem determined to travel despite the pandemic still being at early stages especially in Thailand where Thais can't get vaccinated.

[Tonypandy]

18 hours ago, smedly said:

these are questions you should have asked yourself before getting the sinovac jab, now you are stuck with it - it cannot be removed again because you've changed your mind

 

many on here have been dicussing this very issue for weeks 

as you are also stuck with any other brand vaccine you may have had. You don't know what you don't know cos you don't know

[ourmanflint]

Presumably this will mean the end for Chinese tourism in Europe for quite a few years as well. Good news Thailand!!

[Chongalulu]

5 hours ago, Scott Tracy said:

I can't agree more. All the vaccines are signed off by WHO. A vaccine produced in Thailand is no different to that produced elsewhere. Astra Seneca has signed off on that, as an example. Otherwise, why put their name to it?I

As for mix and match, I'm not an immunologist, but why would it not be OK? The vaccines all work, to a certain level, against all known strains of the virus, and thus, in my albeit, uneducated view, should be OK, yes?

Talk about reinventing the wheel multiple times. Surely, if it's given the nod by WHO, all countries should accept it. 

Seems stupid to me, that a vaccine approved by WHO has to be approved by each of the 193 sovereign states et al.

I suggest you check out a very recent Times article (very long and comprehensive) which clearly illustrates that WHO is a discredited and thoroughly corrupt organization manipulated by China. Remember,it thought Mugabe a wise choice as a goodwill ambassador! ???? 

[nitpicker]

20 hours ago, Johnny Mac said:

Okay, I'm gonna ask the question. If one has had a sinovac and is due for the AZ jab soon, could one not get the AZ jab and then get 2 others later? Is that dangerous, really never seen much said about this, or maybe nobody knows?

I was hoping that one further AZ jab would be enough, since I might have to pay for it. However, that would seem likely to be about 11 to 12 weeks after the first so perhaps the situation will be clearer by then ????. 

[samtam]

5 hours ago, Guderian said:

Yeah, after decades of resisting the pressure to introduce a national ID system due to concerns over privacy, the pandemic has allowed a far more intrusive and potentially powerful state database to come into existence to control many aspects of our lives. You watch, it's not going away and sooner or later it will be extended to include stuff like your annual carbon allowance. Computer says no, you can't go into a pub because you haven't had the right vaccines. Computer says no, you can't book a flight to Thailand because you don't have enough carbon credits left. Orwell would have been astounded by just how quickly this is happening to us, it didn’t need decades of war and military dictatorship, it's all happening under a supposedly libertarian PM.

 

Well as long as they get a Thai programmer to design it, we'll all be fine.

[samtam]

5 hours ago, pentagara said:

 

 

If you need to travel right now though to a country that has vaccines and is picky about them, just bite the quarantine bullet (10 days home quarantine - hey that's a walk in the park compared to Thai rules) and then take care of vaccinations there, be it booster or first time shots.

 

 

Or 21 days in Hong Kong (or China), unless you come from New Zealand (7 days quarantine, Australia 14 days). The rest of the world 21 days, with 2 vaccinations, and only if you have Hong Kong residency. All of this effective 20 August....after 1 (ONE) (O.N.E.)!! case detected from an overseas traveler from the US, who was double vaccinated, had her serology test (passed) and was doing 7 day quarantine; she caught covid IN QUARANTINE.

Edited August 19, 2021 by samtam

[desert dueller]

20 hours ago, khunpa said:

The whole thing is just a complete mess worldwide.
 

One thing this Pandemic has shown us all, is how totally disconnected and screwed up the world, it’s leaders and organizations are. Selfish narrow-minded morons… all of them.

 

Well, I guess we can look forward to not being able to travel certain places without taking several different vaccines. Of which we still don’t know the effects of these “cocktails”. 

 

Add to that the possibility of not being allowed to socialize and live “normally” unless you have a certain vaccine in different countries.

 

A total exposure of a screwed up world. If this virus mutates to something more deadly and kills most of us, we kind of deserve it.

True, to a certain extent. However, if there are attempts at standardization and international cooperation (WHO, EU, etc), the UK chose to walk away from it and do their own "Global Britain" nonsense (first job: clean up their mess in Kabul). So everyone's back to concocting their own customised rules - a bit like the 50 States in the USA ..... lol). 

[desert dueller]

17 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I am not up to speed with the mix and matches on the vaccines, but have heard the Sinovac at first, then followed by AZ is what people are offered, that said, when it comes to a booster, I think AZ will suffice.

 

As I have already paid for Moderna which is due in October, if I get the Pfizer, I will stick with the mRNA vaccines and take Moderna as a booster next year if they allow me to put it back which I don't see it to be a problem.

Moderna offers (rego and pre-payment 3300 baht) now avlble from Medpark. Due not in Ocyober, but rather Q1-Q2 next year. So that could be as late as June 2022. Unless you're under 60, there's lots of Pfizer jabs on offer in TH now, I had three potential appointments for the 1st jab, and chose a hospital in Bkk for it. Excellent service, very professional, social distancing, all orderly.