Afghanistan

[kingstonkid]

Does it surprise anyone else that there seems to be no mention of one of the biggest international news pieces.

 

The only thing I have seen is that Thai's have been started to get repatriated back.

 

No matter what your political belief or the country that you are from almost all of us here have either

a. done time in Afghanistan

b. have relatives that have served

c. know people that have served.

 

I wonder what your thoughts are after 20 years to the ending of this action.

Personally I think it is long overdue. I do not however, agree to how it was actioned. 

 

Any private or corparal could have figured out a better system of withdrawal.

[Swiss1960]

First of all, not "all of us here" are from war mongering countries who love invasions the world over, so that their military stays properly trained... that said, I don't know anybody on either side and am completely neutral.

 

and second... if the Afghan forces (police and military) know only one tactic (run away) after being fed and trained and equipped with weapons for more than a decade, then you can't blame but the US president in my humble opinion. The retreat of the foreign forces has been announced for long time, but it seems only the Taliban took this seriously and prepared for it.

[steven100]

The Taliban just won the lottery  ......          how the heck would anyone ever let the enemy have all this  !!

 

more than 2,000 armored vehicles, many new,  including U.S. Humvees

40 aircraft potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters

100's of ScanEagle military drones

600,000 infantry weapons including M16 assault rifles, 162,000 pieces of communication equipment, and 16,000 night-vision goggle devices,  boxes and boxes of ammunition. 

small arms seized by the insurgents such as machine guns, mortars, howitzers.

 

[sqwakvfr]

1st Afghan Deployment was 2005 to 2006

2nd Afghan Deployment was 2010-2011

 

Worked with a lot of Afghans(Police Trainees, ANA Soldiers and most importantly our Interpreters-God Bless Them and I am not even religious.).

 

The most important things I learned were"

 

1. How Afghans view the concept of time.  We in the west have a rushed sense of time.  Most of the Afghans view the concept of time in a much less urgent manner.  Hence many of the Afghans  I worked with knew eventually the Taliban would be back because they have been taught not to believe what westerners promise.  Most of the Interpreters wanted to get out but even back 10 to 15 years ago getting an Afghan a visa from any western embassy was a minefield.  Recently I noticed not much has changed.  Based upon my experience the United States Department of State is one of the most  organization in the US government.  The only organization more useless is the United Nations.  For Americans in LOS just remember this the next time you have to deal with the Embassy in Bangkok or the Consulate in Chiang Mai.  

 

2.  I believe many have heard of the term "Inshallah"?  In short it means:  Alllah(God) Willing".  This was the number one excuse(I mean reason) when an Afghan did not do what he or she was supposed to do.  For example, "you will be here tomorrow for work?".  'yes, Inshallah" etc,etc.  In order for the Afghan Army or Police to be effective foreign advisors were need to apply the needed motivation(AKA-A kick in the pants).  Otherwise some would go AWOL or sell their uniforms and/or equipment.  Hence some members of the Taliban now look like an army.  

 

As for the current Charlie FoxTrot at HKIA(Hamid Karzai International Airport-why was it named after him?) I am not surprised except for the fact it only took a matter of days and not months for it to  occur.  POTUS will have no choice but to keep a stabilization force in Kabul for the time being.  The only problem is all of the bases in the Kabul area have been closed.  The main base (Camp Eggers) and the large Logistics Base(Camp Phoenix) are  both closed so any foreign military has virtually no place to stay except at the airport.  Everything an Army needs will have to be flown into HKIA.  HKIA has only one runway and the airspace is no longer clear of threats to aircraft. Keeping Bagram open would have been a logical idea but what has logic have to do with anyting?  

 

Sabai ,Sabai and 555. 

 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

1st Afghan Deployment was 2005 to 2006

2nd Afghan Deployment was 2010-2011

 

Worked with a lot of Afghans(Police Trainees, ANA Soldiers and most importantly our Interpreters-God Bless Them and I am not even religious.).

 

The most important things I learned were"

 

1. How Afghans view the concept of time.  We in the west have a rushed sense of time.  Most of the Afghans view the concept of time in a much less urgent manner.  Hence many of the Afghans  I worked with knew eventually the Taliban would be back because they have been taught not to believe what westerners promise.  Most of the Interpreters wanted to get out but even back 10 to 15 years ago getting an Afghan a visa from any western embassy was a minefield.  Recently I noticed not much has changed.  Based upon my experience the United States Department of State is one of the most  organization in the US government.  The only organization more useless is the United Nations.  For Americans in LOS just remember this the next time you have to deal with the Embassy in Bangkok or the Consulate in Chiang Mai.  

 

2.  I believe many have heard of the term "Inshallah"?  In short it means:  Alllah(God) Willing".  This was the number one excuse(I mean reason) when an Afghan did not do what he or she was supposed to do.  For example, "you will be here tomorrow for work?".  'yes, Inshallah" etc,etc.  In order for the Afghan Army or Police to be effective foreign advisors were need to apply the needed motivation(AKA-A kick in the pants).  Otherwise some would go AWOL or sell their uniforms and/or equipment.  Hence some members of the Taliban now look like an army.  

 

As for the current Charlie FoxTrot at HKIA(Hamid Karzai International Airport-why was it named after him?) I am not surprised except for the fact it only took a matter of days and not months for it to  occur.  POTUS will have no choice but to keep a stabilization force in Kabul for the time being.  The only problem is all of the bases in the Kabul area have been closed.  The main base (Camp Eggers) and the large Logistics Base(Camp Phoenix) are  both closed so any foreign military has virtually no place to stay except at the airport.  Everything an Army needs will have to be flown into HKIA.  HKIA has only one runway and the airspace is no longer clear of threats to aircraft. Keeping Bagram open would have been a logical idea but what has logic have to do with anyting?  

 

Sabai ,Sabai and 555. 

 

 

 

First as 1 soldier to another 

 

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

 

I lived in Pakistan in the late 90's  as a military assistant attaché at the time I watched round 1 of the Taliban come into power and spoke with both fleeing afghans and Taliban senior officials.  

 

Yes most Afghan's knew it would happen eventually.   

 

As to inshallah  that was the biggest joke that we saw also in Pakistan.  My response was that  once they would finish what I needed I would pay them INSHALLAH.

 

iT IS MY FIRVENT HOPE THAT BOTH GAD AND ALLAH WATCH OVER THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.

 

 

 

[Mickeymaus]

The Nato helped them to get modern weapons. Nothing else to add. Sad for all the Nato soldiers that lost their life for this outcome. But on a positive note - all the western people responsible for your faith are still in excellent health. 

[Adiudon]

I have spent a fair few years in Afghanistan, both within the confines of large relativly safe bases and outside on ANA bases, latterly I was involved in training the Afghan National Army how to repair the military vehicles that had been gifted to them from the US (mostly HMMMVs & Ford Rangers but a few M1224 MRAPs)

The ANA were on the most part incompetent and illiterate but willing to learn, I never had any confidence in them being able to repair the vehicles fully or withstand a prolonged battle with a aggressive enemy without back up from the US or ISAF.

I agree that the troops needed to be withdrawn but think the bases of Kandahar and Bagram should of remained in US/ISAF control until the withdrawl was completed fully.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

done time in Afghanistan

Not so much done time but worked with Afgans 40 years ago in Saudi and Qatar the guys were such hard workers I took them with me from the toilet of Saudi to Qatar to work with me there. 

 

They were not like some here are describing and posted about Afgan people they were from the mountains they were from a tribe called Pathans.

 

The son of a village tribal leader that work with me and his men told me the Taliban would always  be in control of Afganistan but he said they didn't get bothered by Taliban and did not follow there ways there village was not accessible at certain time of the year. 

 

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

The Taliban just won the lottery  ......          how the heck would anyone ever let the enemy have all this  !!

 

more than 2,000 armored vehicles, many new,  including U.S. Humvees

40 aircraft potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters

100's of ScanEagle military drones

600,000 infantry weapons including M16 assault rifles, 162,000 pieces of communication equipment, and 16,000 night-vision goggle devices,  boxes and boxes of ammunition. 

small arms seized by the insurgents such as machine guns, mortars, howitzers.

 

I think the Chinese are planning on winning the lottery too. They need only 2 or 3 samples of each piece of kit ...

[katana]

This meme was doing the rounds recently. Sorry, hope it's allowed :

[steven100]

39 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I think the Chinese are planning on winning the lottery too. They need only 2 or 3 samples of each piece of kit ...

aha .... right !     they could get any of that later, but now it's been handed to them.

I don't know why Biden didn't request they leave a xmas card on every Hummvee...    I'm just shocked that any leader would leave without taking that hardware .....    

here Taliban, merry xmas

 

[Kwasaki]

Listening to Lord George Robertson on LBC UK about the withdrawal from Afghanistan,  Biden's govt have dropped a clanger but whether the people in US care is yet to be known.

[Denim]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

The Taliban just won the lottery  ......          how the heck would anyone ever let the enemy have all this  !!

 

Given that even the most optimistic predictions still saw an eventual Taliban takeover and that therefore all military equipment in the hands of the Afgan Army would shortly become the property of the Taliban , you do have to wonder and the naivete of giving them such a lot of high tech equipment.

 

The only explanation I can think of is brown envelopes or their equivalent being promised by arms manufactures to dump all this stuff on the Afghans at the taxpayers expense.

[steven100]

11 minutes ago, Denim said:

The only explanation I can think of is brown envelopes or their equivalent being promised by arms manufactures to dump all this stuff on the Afghans at the taxpayers expense.

nah ......  I don't think it got that deep ,  I reckon it was just a couple of phone calls to army chief, boss, whoever he is, and it was just asked.  do we bring this stuff home General   ?    nah'   the logistics will be a nightmare,   just leave it there.  

 

I don't know, but i'm guessing thats what happened,   Just too damn lazy to bring it all back.   ??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but I don't know,    security experts said the inturistic value was not worth recovering,

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by steven100

[steven100]

Biden is starting to show how weak he really is  !    all talk ....    but won't stand up to the Taliban.   He doesn't seem to have fight or grit  !!    imo

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/taliban-held-promises-far-biden-011203175.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/taliban-warned-consequences-us-extends-100037785.html

 

[GrandPapillon]

Looks like Biden has sh*tted on his shoes, his presidency is over

 

so much for being a sage capable leader, he will perceived as a big coward and the US military with it

 

Of course, Obama is also to blame, didn't pull out when they could in 2011

[katana]

Can't help but think the whole chaotic withdrawl was stage managed & allowed to happen in this manner to create a pretext for more immigration into Europe in line with the current Globalist agenda.

[mikebike]

9 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

No matter what your political belief or the country that you are from almost all of us here have either

a. done time in Afghanistan

b. have relatives that have served

c. know people that have served.

No. And I'm from Canada. Do you think folks from Nigeria know peeps who have served?

[mikebike]

8 hours ago, steven100 said:

The Taliban just won the lottery  ......          how the heck would anyone ever let the enemy have all this  !!

 

more than 2,000 armored vehicles, many new,  including U.S. Humvees

40 aircraft potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters

100's of ScanEagle military drones

600,000 infantry weapons including M16 assault rifles, 162,000 pieces of communication equipment, and 16,000 night-vision goggle devices,  boxes and boxes of ammunition. 

small arms seized by the insurgents such as machine guns, mortars, howitzers.

 

None of what was left behind had ANY military secrets. Just the usual <deleted> which taxpayers funded but the armed forces couldn't care less about. The bigger story is how much the U.S. taxpayers spent FOR NOTHING.

[mikebike]

5 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I think the Chinese are planning on winning the lottery too. They need only 2 or 3 samples of each piece of kit ...

Nothing left behind they didn't already have...

[swissie]

"TALIBAN" means "Students of the Koran". In the West we would call them Monks or Priests. Our "christian-soldiers" would also be hesitant to shoot at Monks and Priests that are of the same Religion and "Nationality" (tribe) on top of it.

Regular Afghan-Soldiers are believing Muslims. How could the "West" assume that they would ever shoot at their Monks and Priests that may even belong to their own "tribe"? Unless directly ordered by their western military "Bread-Givers".

Shoot at their Monks and Priests in favour of a decadent and completely corrupt thin "Elite"?

The regular Afghan-Soldier has seen his service in the Army as an "Employment-Opportunity", in an environement, where other employment was scarce. With no intention of ever shooting at their own "men of God" in erarnest.

Case closed!

 

[Meat Pie 47]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

Looks like Biden has sh*tted on his shoes, his presidency is over

 

so much for being a sage capable leader, he will perceived as a big coward and the US military with it

 

Of course, Obama is also to blame, didn't pull out when they could in 2011

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/19/trump-afghanistan-withdrawal-criticism/

[Pravda]

After all the complaining about Thailand I have done in the past year, I just remembered oh yea.... I completely forgot about Americans.

[Denim]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

I don't know, but i'm guessing thats what happened,   Just too damn lazy to bring it all back.   ??

I'm talking about how it got there in the first place and was given to the Afghan government/ army.

 

This is not equipment belonging to U.S. forces , this is equipment ' sold ' to the Afghan government for use by its armed forces.

 

It is inconceivable that given this fact , a whole lot of brown envelopes found their way into corrupt officials and equally corrupt arms manufacturers.

[GrandPapillon]

a lot of those Toyota cars for the Afghan police was sourced by the Pentagon, and actually came from Thailand, from a Chonburi assembly line ????

 

now it seems all the hand of the Talibans ????

 

good job, financing terrorism everywhere ????

Edited August 23, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[bendejo]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

I'm talking about how it got there in the first place and was given to the Afghan government/ army.

 

This is not equipment belonging to U.S. forces , this is equipment ' sold ' to the Afghan government for use by its armed forces.

 

It is inconceivable that given this fact , a whole lot of brown envelopes found their way into corrupt officials and equally corrupt arms manufacturers.

When hearing that the US is giving $XXXXXXXX in military aid to a country bear in mind that the recipient country endorses the check and it is then dispatched to the arms suppliers/manufacturers back in the US.  It is not uncommon for the errand to be run by the Secretary of State him/her self.  The way the defense-industrial complex works isn't so complex after all.

It seems doubtful that the Taliban will be able to make use helicopters and fighter jets, neither to operate nor maintain them.  Those things are just going to corrode and blend into the Afghan earth.

For any of you other fossils out there who remember what the 1970s was like in the region, a well-worn gig was to work in (pre-revolution) Iran teaching English to potential helicopter pilots that the US was training.  I wonder if somehow the knowledge of flying a US helicopter has somehow been carried on in that country (yes, of course that equipment is now 50 years old), but I don't reckon that the new Afghani order will be on good enough terms with them to sell them choppers.  Guys who claim to have a direct communication link to Gad usually don't get along with each other.

 

 

[canthai55]

The US give lip service to all these causes - "Fighting Terrorism", 'Operation Enduring Freedom", ...

While in the real world they sponsor terrorism and actively fight against freedom for anyone and everyone except the privileged few in - wait for it - the USA

[Adiudon]

9 hours ago, mikebike said:

Nothing left behind they didn't already have...

100% true.

The HMMMV uses 70 year old technology and is very basic, the MRAPs they had were the first edition, no more technical than the International truck chassis it is built on albeit with added armour, this model is on its 6th generation and doubt very much that any of these newer models where left behind.

The drawdown started in 2014 when OP Enduring Freedom ended and Resolute Support mission started, and since then huge numbers of vehicles and equipment had been shipped back to the US, Germany and other places.

I find it hard to believe that anything that was given to the Afghans will hold any value other than eventually scrap metal, and these will be left to rot away scattered around the country, as the Russian helicopters and armoured vehicles from the 80s are.

The monetary cost to US tax payers money is another story.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Adiudon

[2009]

It would be wonderful to watch their country flourish.

 

But it will likely just be a breeding ground for radical islam.

 

If their religion wasn't so hell bent on consuming the world, especially in a violent manner, and not to mention being so backward, oppressive, and extreme - I'd be happy for them getting their country back.

[impulse]

7 hours ago, bendejo said:

When hearing that the US is giving $XXXXXXXX in military aid to a country bear in mind that the recipient country endorses the check and it is then dispatched to the arms suppliers/manufacturers back in the US.

Kinda wondering then, how did the president get out of the country with pallets of $USD?