Afghanistan

[steven100]

8 hours ago, bendejo said:

When hearing that the US is giving $XXXXXXXX in military aid to a country bear in mind that the recipient country endorses the check and it is then dispatched to the arms suppliers/manufacturers back in the US

so are you saying the US government gave / gifted  the Afghan army all that equipment ?  2000+ Hummvies, helicoptors,  40 aircraft,  drones, machine guns and everything else.

so are you saying they gave or sold them to the Afghan Army  ??????

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

It would be wonderful to watch their country flourish.

 

But it will likely just be a breeding ground for radical islam.

 

If their religion wasn't so hell bent on consuming the world, especially in a violent manner, and not to mention being so backward, oppressive, and extreme - I'd be happy for them getting their country back.

I was told by a Afghan the Teletubies were always going to come back, it doesn't matter how long it was going to take there way of thinking is not the way of the west.

The Afghans who work for me said the only way to get rid of Taliban was to wipe them out completely which is not a very western thing to do these-days. 

[EVENKEEL]

Good job biden, you pathetic piece of s*&t as well as the Afghan Army who gave up so easily. 

[kingstonkid]

19 hours ago, steven100 said:

nah ......  I don't think it got that deep ,  I reckon it was just a couple of phone calls to army chief, boss, whoever he is, and it was just asked.  do we bring this stuff home General   ?    nah'   the logistics will be a nightmare,   just leave it there.  

 

I don't know, but i'm guessing thats what happened,   Just too damn lazy to bring it all back.   ??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but I don't know,    security experts said the inturistic value was not worth recovering,

 

 

Where do you think most Generals go to work after they retire???

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

so are you saying the US government gave / gifted  the Afghan army all that equipment ?  2000+ Hummvies, helicoptors,  40 aircraft,  drones, machine guns and everything else.

so are you saying they gave or sold them to the Afghan Army  ??????

 

gAVE

[kingstonkid]

21 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I think the Chinese are planning on winning the lottery too. They need only 2 or 3 samples of each piece of kit ...

Right now the Chinese are in KYA mode.  Not only do they want the metals that are there and control of it but they also have to worry about their own country. 

 

While we talk about the Terrorist hate for America. It is nothing compared to the hate that they have against people that rape torture and enslave Muslims making them attend re-education camps and beating them.

And that is just next door.  

China is going to be very careful what they do with people and what they say about Islam.

Of the big 4 in the world they are next I am sure.

 

[Kwasaki]

31 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Right now the Chinese are in KYA mode.  Not only do they want the metals that are there and control of it but they also have to worry about their own country. 

 

While we talk about the Terrorist hate for America. It is nothing compared to the hate that they have against people that rape torture and enslave Muslims making them attend re-education camps and beating them.

And that is just next door.  

China is going to be very careful what they do with people and what they say about Islam.

Of the big 4 in the world they are next I am sure.

 

Don't forget Russia they still have there Embassy in Kabul as do China.

[EVENKEEL]

12 minutes ago, ThaiFighterGoWuuur said:

Excuse me????

 

Trump was president. He let this happen. Why didn’t he stop the Taliban with his Peace Treaty with known terrorists??

 

Joe Biden is fixing his mess!

biden isn't fixing squat, it's disgraceful that we're stuck with joe and what's her name.

 

This is so bad that not even the regular leftists on here are sticking up for biden, 

Edited August 24, 2021 by EVENKEEL

[sqwakvfr]

Of course it is Trump's fault.  Every soldier who achieves any rank has this basic understanding on how to drawdown from deployment and/or combat operations:

 

1.  Establish a large security  perimeter and employ sufficient combat power  This means have our guys with big weapons standing guard.

2.  Evacuate noncombatants(AKA Civilians) first.  All US Embassies(even in BangkoK) are supposed to have a NEO program.  NEO stands for Noncombatant Evacuations Operations.  The Embassy in Kabul is huge(I have been there multiple times) and has or had a lot of people supposedly working on things like NEO???  Or were they too busy working out at the gym or planning Cheese and Wine night on Thursdays(this event actually occurred because the embassy had a store that sold wine, beer and other spirits).  

3.  Conduct Retrograde Operations.  This is a fancy term for "get our equipment out or leave it behind".  

4.  Then all Combat Forces start evacuating.  Something like this for a  country like Afghanistan should have taken months to achieve.

5.  While Combat Forces are evacuating in a staggered manner host nations military forces are handed over what the country that is leaving does not take.  This is commonly called "the handover".  

 

I am not a very smart person and I was not a great soldier but even I know this much.  Being President is like being the Quarterback of a football team:  When things are going great you get too much credit.  When things are going bad you get all the blame.  Too bad Mr. Biden.  What is the next play you are calling?  

 

[GrandPapillon]

it's always Trump fault even when he is not there ????

 

Biden is fully to blame on that one, didn't he say "the buck stop with me" during his speech? ????

 

he could have stopped the damage, but he didn't, and went full speed ahead

 

he is definitely not there, you can see it in his eyes ????

[vinci]

they should off split the country in half, everybody will be happy, the military contract can keep making weapon, they US military's can keep some troop there, the people of Afghanistan have a safe heaven, and the terrorist have their own space to blow up stuff, once in awhile both side exchange fire for the new media to have something to talk about, its a win win for everybody.

[GrandPapillon]

Biden might be senile TBH,

 

He had the power to stop this, but he didn't. Look at his VP face when he was making his silly statement. She was livid.

 

Now that's his responsibility. He created the mess. Everyone in the international community agrees on that. He has betrayed everyone like we knew he would.

[kwonitoy]

14 minutes ago, vinci said:

they should off split the country in half, everybody will be happy, the military contract can keep making weapon, they US military's can keep some troop there, the people of Afghanistan have a safe heaven, and the terrorist have their own space to blow up stuff, once in awhile both side exchange fire for the new media to have something to talk about, its a win win for everybody.

That idea worked so well in Germany and Korea that it should be applied in Afghanistan?

[mikebike]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Right now the Chinese are in KYA mode.  Not only do they want the metals that are there and control of it but they also have to worry about their own country. 

 

While we talk about the Terrorist hate for America. It is nothing compared to the hate that they have against people that rape torture and enslave Muslims making them attend re-education camps and beating them.

And that is just next door.  

China is going to be very careful what they do with people and what they say about Islam.

Of the big 4 in the world they are next I am sure.

 

China is not stupid enough to make Russia and America's mistake. If the Taliban bring terrorism to China, I have the feeling they (the Taliban) won't like the response.

[steven100]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

China is not stupid enough to make Russia and America's mistake. If the Taliban bring terrorism to China, I have the feeling they (the Taliban) won't like the response.

The Taliban wouldn't be game enough ..... China won't mess around like the US does,  China doesn't care about paperwork, NATO, UNHCR,  or anyone else .....   it just does as it wants. 

[vinci]

I just don't understand why they pull out so quickly, their reason was what the Taliban is coming and attack, it's not like the US military are afraid or anything, maybe there's another force at play, something is just not right.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Good job biden, you pathetic piece of s*&t as well as the Afghan Army who gave up so easily. 

Need to add several more to the list:

1) G W Bush who got the US into Afghanistan in the first place and allowed the mission creep that went from eradicating the Taliban from Afghan soil to nation-building so that girls might attend school.

2) Barack Obama for continuing the charade that Afghanistan could be turned into a modern state with a highly centralized power structure despite it being a tribal society with a mostly illiterate population and even and worse religious fanatics than the US has.

3) Donald Trump for negotiating the articles of surrender with the Taliban without a fallback position to hold back the Taliban. I also recall Trump castigating Biden for not sticking to the original timeline to get out by May so as not to jeopardize his negotiated deal, which tells me a Trump withdrawal would be even more rushed.

4) And finally, yes, Joe Biden, for not having recognized that DJT had handed him a stitch-up job to begin with and not drawing up contingency plans for exactly the scenario that unfolded. But I guess he was too busy making sure that his administration had diversity and ensuring that the State Department could put info on LGBTQ issues on the US embassy's Facebook page.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the leadership failure that is today's Afghanistan has four fathers.

[Kwasaki]

35 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Trump is not president. The buck stops with ole joe. Wake up joe.

The problem as I see it after working with Afghans 40 years ago nothing in there mind set has changed is has been a total mis-understanding of western thinking that they could come and impose there the western way on a country like Afganistan.

The Taliban are only one tribe of 60 tribes and not all tribes do not get on and never will do.  

On the the news today the tribe that gave the Russians a hard time are about to organize and prepare to fight the Teletubies.

[OneMoreFarang]

Now that is a discussion which could go on forever.

I don't know anybody who was or is there. No foreign soldier and no Afghans.

 

Here are a couple of thoughts:

- America should never have invaded Afghanistan.

- If they just had to do something and they had to invade someone else country then they should have invaded the country which was mostly responsible for 9/11.

- What was the goal for that invasion? Remove the bad guys? America should have left after that.

- Nation building? Helping all those poor women? Yeah sure, does anybody really believe the USA spent trillions just because they have such a good heart and want that other countries become prosperous democracies like the USA? 555

- So was there maybe another reason why America stayed there? Did it maybe have something to do with the American military industrial complex? Lots of American companies make huge amounts of money with wars. And they want more and more wars. No wars (and no weapon exports) is bad for those companies.

 

So back to reality, the USA and others invaded Afghanistan. And they trained an army of Afghans to fight. And to fight against whom? Other Afghans. And now the invaders are surprised that the Afghans which they trained (and payed!) are not willing to fight those other Afghans. After all, the Americans got their flights home. But the Afghans live in Afghanistan and most don't have the option to just take a plane and live somewhere else.

 

Should they have moved out now? Sure! Why? What's the alternative? Staying 10 years more and then move out with the same result?

 

Could they have moved out in a better way? Sure. Why didn't they do it? I think because they just don't care. The American invasion was always about American politics and not about Afghanistan. Now Americans come home and somewhere over there far away in a place most Americans wouldn't be able to fine on a map, some more people will die and girls won't go to school and women won't go to work. Now how many Americans give a s$#$# about that? And obviously the next American election is some time away. By then nobody will remember that name Afghanistan anymore. 

 

 

 

[jvs]

A lot of debate about who was or is wrong,here is a bit of back ground that i find pretty balanced.

https://www.vox.com/world/22634008/us-troops-afghanistan-cold-war-bush-bin-laden

[steven100]

1 hour ago, fredscats said:

Could not care less about it all   but I do care about the sponging ba.stards about to be offloaded into UK.   None will work,lazy bastards all,ghettos springing up  all on welfare

   The 5 year old Afgan kid falling to his death from hotel there in Sheffield,sorry for him,but one less of the sponging ba.stards.   No Help for Heroes  but help this filthy crowd

agree ......   let everyone in so they can slowly build their cells.  Why didn't Biden and the rest of these cronies Far ...   k the Taliban for good,  they spent billions so why not blow the sh_it   outta them  ????????

please explain .......  what the far  happened  ?    why didn't they destroy them ????????

Edited August 24, 2021 by steven100

[OneMoreFarang]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:37 PM, Denim said:

Given that even the most optimistic predictions still saw an eventual Taliban takeover and that therefore all military equipment in the hands of the Afgan Army would shortly become the property of the Taliban , you do have to wonder and the naivete of giving them such a lot of high tech equipment.

 

The only explanation I can think of is brown envelopes or their equivalent being promised by arms manufactures to dump all this stuff on the Afghans at the taxpayers expense.

American companies got paid to build all that equipment. And because the equipment won't be returned to America those companies will build more of the same. And make more money. And that is what America and their wars is all about. 

Or does anybody really think there was no better way to spend a trillion dollars if they really wanted to educate all those Afghan girls? 

[OneMoreFarang]

21 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

Looks like Biden has sh*tted on his shoes, his presidency is over

 

so much for being a sage capable leader, he will perceived as a big coward and the US military with it

 

Of course, Obama is also to blame, didn't pull out when they could in 2011

Is there a reason why you didn't mention Bush and Trump? Or are those the good guys in your book who can't be criticized? 

[EVENKEEL]

The Afghans don't want to fight for their freedom. The Army of 300,000 strong what just laid down their guns and walked away. The president of Afghanistan just walked away, those people aren't capable of being free. 

 

Well then we have biden just laughing when being asked about the withdrawal, he said it couldn't be done any better. 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Afghans don't want to fight for their freedom. The Army of 300,000 strong what just laid down their guns and walked away. The president of Afghanistan just walked away, those people aren't capable of being free. 

 

Well then we have biden just laughing when being asked about the withdrawal, he said it couldn't be done any better. 

America paid those 300,000 soldiers. Many of them were happy to get money to care for their families.

How many Afghans signed up to fight other Afghans?

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

America paid those 300,000 soldiers. Many of them were happy to get money to care for their families.

How many Afghans signed up to fight other Afghans?

They signed up to battle the Taliban. Fight for their freedom. 

[GrandPapillon]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is there a reason why you didn't mention Bush and Trump? Or are those the good guys in your book who can't be criticized? 

Bush the idiot was for sure responsible, but he had the international community behind him after 911, and the war was won within weeks. It was a mistake from day one, but the bigger mistake was for Obama to continue.

[Kwasaki]

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Afghans don't want to fight for their freedom. The Army of 300,000 strong what just laid down their guns and walked away. The president of Afghanistan just walked away, those people aren't capable of being free. 

 

Well then we have biden just laughing when being asked about the withdrawal, he said it couldn't be done any better. 

Not all Afghans are the same, many tribes will fight the Taliban in the future I reckon Afghanistan will be divided into sections in the future.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

47 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Afghans don't want to fight for their freedom. The Army of 300,000 strong what just laid down their guns and walked away. The president of Afghanistan just walked away, those people aren't capable of being free. 

 

 

 

Isn't your comment an argument in favour of Joseph Biden? If your propping up a government that apparently the army and the majority of people have no passion for then what is the solution: just stay there or go.

Sure.. they got it wrong in execution.. I think it would have been messy in any case .. but he had the guts to take action and not just spend spend spend for another 20 years. The only other solution, other than same same, is possibly an all out war, but it appears the Taliban have a lot of support through Afghanistan, or they wouldn't be as strong as they are. Would you back an all out war?

It is terrible to see the Taliban back. In a year though we may look back and say Joe got it right. The  fact that the execution was poor may be remembered less than the fact of ending a 20 year war.  

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[sqwakvfr]

The 300,000 number is the biggest lie of all.  The combined ANSF(Army and Police) never got to 300,000.  This is because accountability of personnel and of equipment was never achieved.  On paper the ANSF was at 300,000 but in reality not even close.