Feel like an untouchable

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

If the risk of getting an infection is as low as 1:10,000, as the CDC has advised, then that means you would have to touch an infected door knob 10,000 times before you stand a chance of getting the virus.

 

In other words, the risk is so low that it can be discounted. Just to put it into perspective, if the risk of infection from Covid19 via surface touch is 1:10,000 this compares as per attached image to other risks.

 

In other words, your risk of dying by choking on food is 400% greater than the risk you may get Covid19 by touching a surface infected with the virus. Your chance of dying of sunstroke is bigger. Your chance of dying by suicide is almost ten times greater.

 

Since we discount death by choking on food on a daily basis, which is 400% more likely than catching Covid19 by touching surfaces that are infected, the latter can be discounted as well.

 

 

 

Kept your finger on the enter for a while, did you?

 

Anyway, no matter how low the risk, if there is an actual risk, do you want to be the 1 in a 1000 or whatever that is the unlucky one?

[Tanomazu]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Kept your finger on the enter for a while, did you?

 

Anyway, no matter how low the risk, if there is an actual risk, do you want to be the 1 in a 1000 or whatever that is the unlucky one?

Actually, I tried to paste the table, but it was too large, hence the JPEG.

 

Again, you have to put it into perspective. If the risk of catching Covid by surface touch is 1:10,000 you have to consider you're 400% more likely to die by choking on food.  More likely to die of sunstroke.

 

In other words, the odds that you are going to die of Covid due to touching a surface are so low that you can discount it. You discount the possibility of dying by choking on food every day, do you not?

 

But dying by choking on food is 400 per cent more likely.

 

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/

 

"...the odds of getting infected via a contaminated surface or object is "generally less than 1 in 10,000."

 

https://www.advisory.com/en/daily-briefing/2021/04/07/surface-transmission

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Tanomazu

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

You're projecting (unconsciously/consciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like and attributing them to someone else).

You feel that Thai people have got it in for us foreigners so you find things that back this emotion up. As has been pointed out to you by several posters, the person in question could simply be doing this for everyone (Thai and foreigner alike), but you see this simple act of neccessary protection as only be aimed at foreigners.

You need to be less sensitive.  

You have no possible way of knowing if he is projecting or not.  It's completely possible that the 7/11 worker does this for foreign customers and not native Thais.  There have been many examples of the Thai government, Thai companies and Thai individuals behaving in a way that suggests an attitude of "foreign people all have (or are more likely to have) covid". 

 

The most you can say with any confidence is "without observing how they behave when serving Thais, you cannot be absolutely sure that they are treating a foreigner differently, while it remains a possibility".

[BangkokReady]

OP, while you may or may not be correct that this was done as a response to serving a foreigner, it's definitely a possibility.  Lot's of people have reported being treated differently in this regard and there have been many news stories about businesses treating foreigners differently. 

 

I'm not sure why people completely deny it when it's something that happens and could have been the case here.  Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but no point in telling you that it wasn't when it could have been.  I guess cognitive dissonance.

 

I can confirm that some Thai people see a foreigner coming and take extra precautions that they do not take with Thais.  And I can also confirm that it makes one feel bad.  We are only human.

Edited August 25, 2021 by BangkokReady

[CharlieH]

Post with excessive blank space has been removed.

[richard_smith237]

38 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

None are disputing the LOW risk I do not think, most of us can read and comprehend, thank you .

Even extremely Low risk does not mean no risk.

 

 

 

Its an interesting debate, yet in the very same CDC article which quotes a 1 in 10,000 door knob licking risk the advice is still to wash ones hands and sanitise.

 

The CDC article also points out that infections are often attributed to multiple pathways, it outlines how hand hygiene is a barrier to transmission.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/surface-transmission.html

 

[One QMRA (Quantitative microbial risk assessment) study also evaluated the effectiveness of prevention measures that reduce the risk of fomite transmission and found that hand hygiene could substantially reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from contaminated surfaces, while surface disinfection once- or twice-per-day had little impact on reducing estimated risks.]

 

Other quotes from the article: 

 

[Infections can often be attributed to multiple transmission pathways. Fomite transmission is difficult to prove definitively, in part because respiratory transmission from asymptomatic people cannot be ruled out]

 

[Hand hygiene is a barrier to fomite transmission and has been associated with lower risk of infection]

 

 

As quoted by Tonomazu, the 1 in 10,000 risk factor is extremely low such that is negligible, yet all the studies I have read continued to quote that washing your hands and sanitising reduces the risk factor which somewhat contradicts ‘negligible risk’.

 

 

Ultimately, all (most) articles quote that fomite transmission is difficult to prove because when contact transmission exists, so does the risk of aerosol transmission. Thus, either bias can readily be confirmed if the objective is specifically to rule out fomite transmission. 

 

In the example of the restaurant case study - It is concluded that no fomite transmission takes place because all the transmission in the indoor environment of the restaurant is shown to be via aerosol. 

The overwhelming presence of aerosol transmission seems to have been interpreted as the absence of fomite transmission - this seems to be an assumption more than evidence based fact. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by richard_smith237

[rcuthbert]

Went to a massage shop today. The gal put oil on both hands. I feel like she did not see the "real me" - I felt undervalued, and very uncomfortable; however, I soon forgave her...

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I can confirm that some Thai people see a foreigner coming and take extra precautions that they do not take with Thais.  

How can you possibly know that, you are not Thai.

 

 

That said, I suspect some people may be dumb enough to react in such a xenophobic manner in much the same way idiots in the UK and US are targeting Sheikhs for being Taliban, or targeting Oriental Asians for being a high Covid-19 risk...  these people are idiots, pure and simple. 

 

Fortunately, experiences such as this are extremely rare in Thailand, but I’m sure they happen. I’m also sure that they when they do happen they are so innocuous only the most fragile will notice. 

 

------

 

I recall going to a few hair dressers in the area where I used to live, popped my head in the door to ask if I can get a hair cut. Three places in the same area told me 'no’..... Racists !!! they don’t like foreigners !!!...  I later found out that it was a muslim area and the female hair dressers only cut females hair, they don’t have the clippers and equipment for a male haircut and that there were ‘barbers’ for the men (these were not AC and I didn’t wish to use them which is why I’d only asked at the AC places0.

 

What this highlights is how easily we can see what we chose to see, without an open mind and with a sense of depreciative paranoia we may end up seeing the worst in everything when the reality is nothing other than a general indifference.

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

How can you possibly know that, you are not Thai.

Seeing Thai people's anti-covid behavior being different with me than with other Thais.  Sure, I can't rule out something specifically about me, rather than my race, that makes them think I am more likely to have covid, but it seems unlikely.

 

Quote

I’m also sure that they when they do happen they are so innocuous only the most fragile will notice.

I don't see any reason to try and deride or stigmatise anyone who notices such a thing.  You sound a little prejudiced.  Almost victim blaming.

 

If you notice it, you notice it.  Doesn't make you a bad person.

Edited August 25, 2021 by BangkokReady

[Harry Black]

I prefer baby oil.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

One QMRA (Quantitative microbial risk assessment) study also evaluated the effectiveness of prevention measures that reduce the risk of fomite transmission and found that hand hygiene could substantially reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from contaminated surfaces

 

Which is completely meaningless if the risk of infection with surface touch is 1:10,000, as the CDC has said.

 

What's the point to reduce a risk that is so low that it will virtually never happen? It's like saying the risk of dying via an accidental gun discharge is substantially reduced if you put the gun in a safe place. The reality is that risk is inherently negligible for the vast majority of people, so negligible that one can discount it.

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

yet all the studies I have read continued to quote that washing your hands and sanitising reduces the risk factor which somewhat contradicts ‘negligible risk’.

No, it does not contradict "negligble risk" at all. You can still reduce the risk factor which is, on balance, pointless because the risk is so small. For instance you could reduce the risk of choking to death by not eating. That would significantly reduce the risk of dying by choking, yet it does not contradict the fact that dying by choking to death is a negligible risk (though still 400% more likely than getting a Covid infection via surface touch).

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

Ultimately, all (most) articles quote that fomite transmission is difficult to prove because when contact transmission exists, so does the risk of aerosol transmission. Thus, either bias can readily be confirmed if the objective is specifically to rule out fomite transmission. 

 

In the example of the restaurant case study - It is concluded that no fomite transmission takes place because all the transmission in the indoor environment of the restaurant is shown to be via aerosol. 

The overwhelming presence of aerosol transmission seems to have been interpreted as the absence of fomite transmission - this seems to be an assumption more than evidence based fact. 

 

 

No, actually the study came to a conclusion based on fact and observation, because the episode was caught on video footage.

 

All diners touched potentially infected surface areas, elevator buttons and the like, but only those within airborne contact actually go infected. Those who touched infected surface areas however did NOT get infected, even though they touched their mucous areas, eyes and nose.

 

This is assumption and not evidence based on fact? Not on planet earth it isn't.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8164346/

 

Ultimately it's a matter of perspective. You're four times more likely to die of choking on food. Yet you discount this risk on a daily basis every time you have a meal. Because in absolute terms the risk is actually tiny. However, to get Covid19 from touching an infected surface area is 400% less likely still.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Tanomazu

[ukrules]

This might just be me but I've been washing my hands after handling cash for years, decades in fact.

 

If I were a cashier I probably wouldn't bother but I rarely handle cash and I regard it as being filthy - like wiping your hands over the floor.

Edited August 25, 2021 by ukrules

[Andrew555]

5 hours ago, bbko said:

So her using a cleansing gel during a deadly pandemic got you bother enough to post a topic about it??

Well it seems to have got you bothered enough to respond.

[55Jay]

After 12-18 months of COVID, cashiers wearing gloves or, at a minimum, using hand gel after a transaction, doesn't even move the needle any more.  I do the squirt as well, rub-a-dub on the way out the door.  ????

 

Here's a good one though.  I've been using a large, open area near my house for daily exercise for a long time and am typically the only farang out there among the Thai regulars, so they are used to me, and we often exchange casual greetings.

 

After that one Thai politician/gov official railed on social media a while back about smelly, unwashed farangs in Thailand being prime COVID carriers, a middle-aged Thai lady I hadn't seen before, turned up in the exercise area. 

 

First time this lady and I were approaching head to head, maybe 40 to 50' apart, she looked right at me and pulled her mask up rather quickly.  I noticed the overt move, figured she was sensitive about COVID, so I politely veered left to increase our sideways distance before CPA.  A few seconds after we passed, I glanced back around and saw her arm move up to pull her mask back down.   LOL, ok, no problem.   Out of curiosity, I watched her pass Thais on the track without pulling her mask up, so clearly it was just me.  ???? 

[jackspade]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How can you possibly know that, you are not Thai.

So only Thai people can notice other Thai people doing things?

I guess you think only Americans can notice other Americans doing something, or only Brits can really notice other Brits doing something?

The lack of logic around here is truly jawdropping.

Edited August 25, 2021 by jackspade

[jackspade]

4 hours ago, rcuthbert said:

Went to a massage shop today. The gal put oil on both hands. I feel like she did not see the "real me" - I felt undervalued, and very uncomfortable; however, I soon forgave her...

Did you keep your masks on?

Edited August 25, 2021 by jackspade

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How can you possibly know that, you are not Thai.

Seeing Thai people's anti-covid behavior being different with me than with other Thais.  Sure, I can't rule out something specifically about me, rather than my race, that makes them think I am more likely to have covid, but it seems unlikely.

 

Quote

I’m also sure that they when they do happen they are so innocuous only the most fragile will notice.

I don't see any reason to try and deride or stigmatise anyone who notices such a thing.  You sound a little prejudiced.  Almost victim blaming.

 

If you notice it, you notice it.  Doesn't make you a bad person.

 

Victim blaming....  Victim ????  what exactly is this guy a victim of ??? Insulted because a shop assistance used hand sanitiser ???? 

 

So now we have ‘victim blaming’, ‘prejudiced’... do you guys read your own comments before you post?

 

Its pathetic....   a girl in a shop used hand sanitiser....  I’m struggling to comprehend how anyone even notices that let alone makes the leap that they think the shop assistant is doing so because she is dealing with a ‘farang’... and then makes the greater leap that it must be because the shop assistant thinks the farang spreads covid....  

 

...... The idea is comical - its just a shop assistant doing what shop assistances are doing at this time. 

 

Victim blaming !!!... thanks for the laugh !

 

 

 

 

[Caldera]

8 hours ago, Andrew555 said:

Went to a convenient store today. Bought a few things. After I had paid and taken my bag, the cashier reaches out and presses a big slosh of gel in her palm and proceeds to thoroughly apply it over both hands. She's probably thinking oh, farang have covid

Quite a stretch! When I'm done at a 7/11, I also use hand sanitizer. Do you reckon that the Thais working there find that offensive, because I as a foreigner think they have Covid?

 

And if you don't apply it thoroughly, on both hands, why even bother? I, for one, think it's great that they're making an effort to keep themselves and their customers safe.

[LomSak27]

Make up a little spray bottle of alcohol and water. Keep it in your pocket. If offended, pull it out and spray your hands, right there and then. That will make you happy.

[richard_smith237]

34 minutes ago, jackspade said:

So only Thai people can notice other Thai people doing things?

I guess you think only Americans can notice other Americans doing something, or only Brits can really notice other Brits doing something?

The lack of logic around here is truly jawdropping.

So the Op noticed that the Cashier was not using Hand-Gel after touching notes passed from other Thai’s, but did notice that the Cashier used hand-gel after receiving cash from the Op ?

 

When I read some of these threads I really understand what some Thai’s mean when they suggest that ‘Farang think to much’ !!!.... 

 

 

 

 

[ukrules]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

‘Farang think to much’

It's us against them, you've got to keep your guard up at all times out there ????

[Gottfrid]

9 hours ago, Andrew555 said:

Went to a convenient store today. Bought a few things. After I had paid and taken my bag, the cashier reaches out and presses a big slosh of gel in her palm and proceeds to thoroughly apply it over both hands. She's probably thinking oh, farang have covid. I walk out and try to put it down to ignorance but still, I'm bothered by this action. Feel like an outcast. I know the solution is don't let it affect you but the truth is it does.

Yeah, with a comment like this, I totally understand that she tried to get rid of whatever you left after you.

[BangkokReady]

56 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Victim blaming....  Victim ????  what exactly is this guy a victim of ??? Insulted because a shop assistance used hand sanitiser ???? 

Your post was talking about it happening generally, as was my reply. Now you have switched to talking about the OP.

 

Your reply makes zero sense in relation to mine.

 

Try reading posts properly before you reply to them.

[johnnybangkok]

19 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

You have no possible way of knowing if he is projecting or not.  It's completely possible that the 7/11 worker does this for foreign customers and not native Thais.  There have been many examples of the Thai government, Thai companies and Thai individuals behaving in a way that suggests an attitude of "foreign people all have (or are more likely to have) covid". 

 

The most you can say with any confidence is "without observing how they behave when serving Thais, you cannot be absolutely sure that they are treating a foreigner differently, while it remains a possibility".

And it's therefore equally possible she does this for everyone as the OP didn't mention this in his original post and has not corrected anyone else who has posted and suggested the same.
As much as I agree there is plenty of xenophobia in Thailand, I also think people are overly sensitive to these sort of things and are quick to jump on one situation to prove that ALL are the same. There's plenty of idiots already in the world without tarring everyone with the same brush with such limited information.

Edited August 26, 2021 by johnnybangkok

[Andrew555]

23 hours ago, 55Jay said:

After 12-18 months of COVID, cashiers wearing gloves or, at a minimum, using hand gel after a transaction, doesn't even move the needle any more.  I do the squirt as well, rub-a-dub on the way out the door.  ????

 

Here's a good one though.  I've been using a large, open area near my house for daily exercise for a long time and am typically the only farang out there among the Thai regulars, so they are used to me, and we often exchange casual greetings.

 

After that one Thai politician/gov official railed on social media a while back about smelly, unwashed farangs in Thailand being prime COVID carriers, a middle-aged Thai lady I hadn't seen before, turned up in the exercise area. 

 

First time this lady and I were approaching head to head, maybe 40 to 50' apart, she looked right at me and pulled her mask up rather quickly.  I noticed the overt move, figured she was sensitive about COVID, so I politely veered left to increase our sideways distance before CPA.  A few seconds after we passed, I glanced back around and saw her arm move up to pull her mask back down.   LOL, ok, no problem.   Out of curiosity, I watched her pass Thais on the track without pulling her mask up, so clearly it was just me.  ???? 

Good you are open minded about it. ????

 

[Andrew555]

19 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, with a comment like this, I totally understand that she tried to get rid of whatever you left after you.

Wow! You're nasty. I bet you're like that to everybody in your life.

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, Andrew555 said:

Wow! You're nasty. I bet you're like that to everybody in your life.

No, only to the ones that deserve. It´s called being righteous, not nasty.

As I do not associate with such people, I do not need to be nasty to people in my life.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Gottfrid

[jackspade]

On 8/25/2021 at 7:33 PM, jackspade said:

Did you keep your masks on?

@rcuthbert That wasn't a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely curious if you and the massage girl kept your masks on ????

Edited August 27, 2021 by jackspade

[DaLa]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:50 PM, rcuthbert said:

Went to a massage shop today. The gal put oil on both hands. I feel like she did not see the "real me" - I felt undervalued, and very uncomfortable; however, I soon forgave her...

Never tried it personally but thank you for the idea. Was that synthetic 5w30 she used ?   Either way I presume you left happy at the end though?  

 

And back to the original post, maybe the shop assistant employed a system whereby she sprayed her hands every 10 customers or every 30 minutes. You would incorrectly assume s/he was singling you out.

[Andrew555]

15 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

No, only to the ones that deserve. It´s called being righteous, not nasty.

As I do not associate with such people, I do not need to be nasty to people in my life.

Well, it seems like you do need to be nasty and write troll comments. In case you don't understand a troll is someone who leaves an intentionally annoying or offensive message on the internet in order to upset somebody or cause trouble which is what your comment was which is what you are so maybe you should dis-associate from yourself.