Your Covid 19 papers, please

[cobra]

... Your papers appear not to be in order, you will kindly step out of line and accompany the guards ...

 

Already there's a thriving business in fake vaccination records in the west,
as businesses and corps start mandating employees be vaccinated.

[PolarAttack]

I think it’s a great idea. They should open stores for the unvax people as well. See who shops there ???? it’s simple, if you don’t like their rules, move on. If you don’t like their country, move out.????

[tifino]

 ... so is their a door-nazi out the front, visually confirming what's on your Mobile's screen? - or do you walk in and then The System sends you a Fine in the Mails for entering?  (like getting a Speeding Fine in the Post) 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, tifino said:

 ... so is their a door-nazi out the front, visually confirming what's on your Mobile's screen? - or do you walk in and then The System sends you a Fine in the Mails for entering?  (like getting a Speeding Fine in the Post) 

 

‘Door Nazi’.

 

Can we please have s little less drama.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

This always has been a "papers please" country. Don't understand the sudden aversion to Covid papers. Though it is a bit too soon when it's still difficult to get vaccinated.

 

Asians dutifully mask up, and line up for a limited supply of vaccines. Americans come up with wacky conspiracy theories and refuse them being freely handed out, then start riots when confronted about masks. It's shameful.

[HappyExpat57]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:04 PM, Jingthing said:

Not great.

Also it seems way too early for Thailand to try this. 

There are still very serious vaccine supply and access issues here. In other words remarkably unfair. 

I was quite surprised when two British friends of mine, both under 60 with none of the other qualifying conditions, heard "through the grapevine" that Pfizer jabs were being given on a walk-in basis in Sriracha. One brought his Thai GF. The Brits got the jabs, the Thai GF was turned away.

[JonnyF]

56 minutes ago, misterphil said:

Good. They were asking for this months ago when I was working in Germany. 

Germany probably isn't the best example to give when attempting to defend a "Papers Please" society ????.

[Whale]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:36 AM, richard_smith237 said:

.......when vaccinated you have a far lesser chance of getting covid, and.......

 

Because fully vaccinated people have a far less chance of being asymptomatic carriers, there is far less chance of further spread of the virus. 

I think both of those assumptions have now been debunked as not being scientifically true.

[Boarn]

This is not about being for or against the vaccine, this is down to personal freedom. The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else. It makes me very worried that there are so many people willing to sign up to restrictive policies, so many people happy to have their basic freedoms curtailed at the whims of incompetent governments. You know the sorts, the type of people who write on here that a covid passport is a good thing because the government said so, then when it comes time to start implanting chips in people to prove vaccination status they will be for that as well. Next comes the time when the government mandates death for every first born male in the family and they will blindly go along with this as well.

 

It really is very simple, don't restrict freedoms and let people who are worried stay at home and people who are not do as they see fit.

[wensiensheng]

So long as I can get vaccinated and have the ability to show I am vaccinated, I’m not bothered at all.

 

 

[wensiensheng]

5 minutes ago, Boarn said:

This is not about being for or against the vaccine, this is down to personal freedom. The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else. It makes me very worried that there are so many people willing to sign up to restrictive policies, so many people happy to have their basic freedoms curtailed at the whims of incompetent governments. You know the sorts, the type of people who write on here that a covid passport is a good thing because the government said so, then when it comes time to start implanting chips in people to prove vaccination status they will be for that as well. Next comes the time when the government mandates death for every first born male in the family and they will blindly go along with this as well.

 

It really is very simple, don't restrict freedoms and let people who are worried stay at home and people who are not do as they see fit.

But you do have a drivers license, right? You do wear a seatbelt, right? If in a civilized country, you do wear a motorbike helmet, right? You do stop at red traffic lights when driving, right.

 

personal freedoms, pffiff. Totally imaginary.

[EricTh]

On 8/28/2021 at 5:59 PM, Kevin Taylor said:

 

You still get covid if your vaccinated by the way, it is just hoped that symptoms are less severe, so literally what is the point of only allowing vaccinated people in restaraunts ?

Because most people are medically uneducated , they think that vaccines help them to avoid becoming infected ever again.

 

It's also partly the media's fault was spreading misinformation that one vaccine is better than another vaccine in terms of efficacy.

 

This video explains why the efficacy rates of vaccines is a fallacy so that certain vaccines like Pfizer are perceived to be 'highly effective'.

 

The clinical trials should be done at the same place, same time and same conditions but it was not.

 

 

The truth is all vaccines only help us avoid hospitalization and death but we do get infected even after full vaccination.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by EricTh

[Antonymous]

59 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

"Why not just put a chip in us that says we are vaccinated.

 

That was sarcasm people, whatever it takes to make it safer for all to be able to get back to some kind of normality."

 

That could easily be a next step in a few years. Removes need to carry papers / app on phone etc; allows for tracking of your movements "to keep you and others safe". As you say, "whatever it takes" so where do you draw the line? Or perhaps we just all trust governments to get it right?

 

Personally, I am all for it, the strangest thing is people just don't understand, this is the new world, it is what it is, Covid is real and we have to take steps to mitigate it's effect on us.

 

This is indeed the new world. The question really is to what extent citizens are content to allow their governments to rule by diktat and fear. Covid is real and we have to take steps to mitigate - correct: but the effects on the vast majority of people are not serious. That of course could change, but equally it may not, and Covid may become less of a threat, not more, as the years pass. While we wait to find out I'd rather have as few restrictions as possible and accept the (likely minimal) personal risk that may ensue.

 

At issue here is the extent to which the majority should be required to adapt their behaviour for the benefit of the minority. In an authoritarian society citizens do what they are told. Previously, in liberal societies, citizens at least had the illusion that government served the people, not the other way round, and that personal freedoms were sacrosanct.

 

I for one wouldn't want to be sitting in a plane with unvaccinated people or in a restaurant, while shopping etc etc, vaccinations and QR Codes/Certificates of people proving they have been vaccinated is the way to go and if that is what it takes to move forward, then I am all for it.

 

But if you've been vaccinated what's the problem? I trust you would also mitigate your personal risk further by wearing an N95/FFP2 or better mask at all times in such situations, because it sounds like you are very fearful? 

 

For the unvaccinated, you have your choice, I respect that, but do keep away from me.

 

There are many reasons why some people may be unvaccinated. Personal choice, concern about long-term issues arising from brand-new vaccines, pre-existing conditions that preclude vaccination, age (children). Again, if you have been vaccinated, why are you so afraid? 

 

Fear, to me, is one of the worst aspects of this whole sorry mess. It's sensible to be concerned - especially if over 50 or with certain chronic diseases - but concern shouldn't become fear. That's now so deeply entrenched that it's going to take a very long time for it to dissipate. Maybe for some people it never will. 

 

 

Excellent post.

[mighty]

2 hours ago, theonetrueaussie said:

If what you say is true then why are they calling vaccinated in the U.S.A "Super Spreaders"??? Why is it that Israel the most vaccinated country in the world is currently having a massive outbreak and the majority of people hospitalized/dying are those vaccinated?? So many things we don't know about covid still, lot more research and statistics need to be done/gathered still!

Why is it you can have had 20 other vaccine shots but if you refuse covid vaccine you are now an anti-vaxxer?

The trend has brought a slew of questions about the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines and the implications of new strains for future outbreaks. While these trends initially seem like cause for vaccine skepticism, a closer look at Israel’s current outbreaks shows that vaccines are effective and working — even against the delta variant

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

As you say, "whatever it takes" so where do you draw the line? Or perhaps we just all trust governments to get it right?

I never said that, e.g. trust governments, au contraire.

 

35 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

but the effects on the vast majority of people are not serious. That of course could change, but equally it may not, and Covid may become less of a threat, not more, as the years pass. While we wait to find out I'd rather have as few restrictions as possible and accept the (likely minimal) personal risk that may ensue.

I have to disagree with your comment above as I believe that the vast majority of people are serious, just look at how many are being vaccinated, here that number would grow exponentially if they could offer people a half decent vaccine.

 

Covid will become less a threat when the majority of the world gets vaccinated, otherwise it will continue to be out there doing what it does, and of no one likes restrictions, particularly me, but we have them already, e.g. you cannot drive a motor vehicle without a license, travel abroad without a passport, travel on public transport without paying, are these not restrictions, I could go on, but you should get my drift.

 

41 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

At issue here is the extent to which the majority should be required to adapt their behaviour for the benefit of the minority. In an authoritarian society citizens do what they are told. Previously, in liberal societies, citizens at least had the illusion that government served the people, not the other way round, and that personal freedoms were sacrosanct.

We understand history, however if you feel you are free at the moment, you are misinformed, we have and are under control, has been like that for a long time, however we do have our freedoms, as long as we comply, just try and go against the grain and see what happens and my point will be proven.

 

43 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

But if you've been vaccinated what's the problem? I trust you would also mitigate your personal risk further by wearing an N95/FFP2 or better mask at all times in such situations, because it sounds like you are very fearful? 

We are born and live in fear till we die, Yes I have been vaccinated 1st dose Pfizer, I wouldn't wear a mask in the plane if not required, however if I had to, I would probably see if I could wear a shield as masks for a certain period are ok, but on a long haul flight, would be a pain. Anyone that suggests that they are not fearful of death is already dead in my opinion. I love life, I fear death, but I don't hide under my bed, I live life and have had a great life, having experienced many things and travelled the world, at this point in my life having a young family, I take as much care to eat right, exercise and look after my health best I can having almost been taken by a heart attack 13 years ago, so I do have an underlying condition and want to extend my shelf life for as much as possible as I retired 6 years ago enjoying the fruits of my 40 year of labour, after isn't that what we are supposed to do after working in the slave trade for so many decades.

 

49 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

There are many reasons why some people may be unvaccinated. Personal choice, concern about long-term issues arising from brand-new vaccines, pre-existing conditions that preclude vaccination, age (children). Again, if you have been vaccinated, why are you so afraid? 

 

Fear, to me, is one of the worst aspects of this whole sorry mess. It's sensible to be concerned - especially if over 50 or with certain chronic diseases - but concern shouldn't become fear. That's now so deeply entrenched that it's going to take a very long time for it to dissipate. Maybe for some people it never will. 

I believe I have answered the 1st sentence above and agree it's a personal choice, I for one would never want someone forced to be vaccinated, on the other hand, if they risk the potential of infecting others due to not being vaccinated, then they will face certain restrictions, e.g. if your drunk and go to enter a night club, how far do you think your going to get, and your not even potentially infected with a virus.

 

Fear is definitely out there, not only for over 50's, it is now the younger ones too as they line up to get vaccinated, I recently saw a news program which showed 3 people in hospital, 2 were unvaccinated, one had an appointment the following month, but Covid got him, the 3rd one had one dose but a week into it Covid got her, she was 30 and a single mother, the guy who had a the appointment next month and got Covid looked strong, fit and healthy, he was flat on his stomach struggling to breath, the woman (30) had recovered after 2 weeks but was struggling to breath and could wait to see her kids, the other guy who I haven't spoken of yet was in the same boat as the woman, however he was married, his wife was in another hospital and his two kids were in another hospital. That is the biggest fear I have, i.e. being separated if the family gets Covid, that said, the family has private hospital cover and Buddha willing we don't get it bad enough to end up in a hospital, but if we do, we should be able to be in the same one, beds available, and talking of fear, my biggest is if my wife was taken early, how would I cope with 4 kids, fear is real, but I don't dwell on it, I am conscious of what is going on, but don't allow fear it to control me or my family. If I was single, I couldn't give a rats a$$, but being married, I take my responsibilities serious so as to provide for my family and see the kids through to an age that they can stand on their own, almost there ????

 

Stay safe, be conscious as you say, but also realise things are changing and if you don't want to be restricted, then get on board, otherwise be left behind, but don't spit chips that you weren't told about it.

[wasabi]

Requiring vaccinations seems reasonable to me and does have historic precedent. Requiring people to be tested on an ongoing basis into perpetuity just to enter a restaurant or a shopping mall seems impossible to implement and useless. The cost alone would far exceed the profit most businesses make and the accuracy & actual protections such tests provide is minor at best At some point Thailand will have to accept people may have covid but enough are vaccinated that it's no longer a serious threat. 

 

All of these schemes seem more like efforts to pass the buck on responsibility, blaming the businesses if someone catches covid and not the government for their lack of a serious vaccination effort

[Bagwain]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Care to provide a link to back up what you are stating ?

Mainstream media are freely reporting about the story; the Daily Mail wrote recently, citing the Israeli study, that people who had COVID and recovered are 13 times less likely to get infected again than those who have been inoculated, and 27 times less likely to experience symptoms if they did get reinfected.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Boarn said:

This is not about being for or against the vaccine, this is down to personal freedom. The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else. It makes me very worried that there are so many people willing to sign up to restrictive policies, so many people happy to have their basic freedoms curtailed at the whims of incompetent governments. You know the sorts, the type of people who write on here that a covid passport is a good thing because the government said so, then when it comes time to start implanting chips in people to prove vaccination status they will be for that as well. Next comes the time when the government mandates death for every first born male in the family and they will blindly go along with this as well.

 

It really is very simple, don't restrict freedoms and let people who are worried stay at home and people who are not do as they see fit.

More drama.

 

As for ‘The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else.’ 

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Your freedoms are founded on the past and continuing sacrifices of others.

 

Just go get the jab, you’ll only feel a small <deleted>.

[EricTh]

9 minutes ago, mighty said:

The trend has brought a slew of questions about the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines and the implications of new strains for future outbreaks. While these trends initially seem like cause for vaccine skepticism, a closer look at Israel’s current outbreaks shows that vaccines are effective and working — even against the delta variant

 

Nearly 70% of Israel is vaccinated as of end of Aug 2021 which is near herd immunity but Israel still has daily infection rate of about 10,000 new cases every day.

 

We'll see what happens when herd immunity of 80% is reached in Israel probably by end of Sept.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by EricTh

[Boarn]

8 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

But you do have a drivers license, right? You do wear a seatbelt, right? If in a civilized country, you do wear a motorbike helmet, right? You do stop at red traffic lights when driving, right.

 

personal freedoms, pffiff. Totally imaginary.

What an insane argument. Driving is not a necessity for human survival, whereas eating is. A vaccine passport can't be compared to a drivers license, shear ignorance.

 

We need to do what we can to keep hold of the very few freedoms we already have in place, by giving away more we are doing a disservice to future generations who will have to live under stricter and more authoritarian regimes.

 

Then again, if you think the Stasi performed admirable tasks and should be replicated, there is nothing left to say, you're already lost, just get in line, bend over and let the government do it's worst.......

[Denim]

6 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

that people who had COVID and recovered are 13 times less likely to get infected

And those that did not recover ..............died.

 

Which is the point of vaccines. Fewer people die if infected and hospitalized .

[Boarn]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More drama.

 

As for ‘The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else.’ 

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Your freedoms are founded on the past and continuing sacrifices of others.

 

Just go get the jab, you’ll only feel a small <deleted>.

Drama? 

 

So you're happy to curtail your enjoyment at the whims of others? 

 

Why is it that the people who don't want to interfere with the free choice of other people, are the very ones who suffer to those that do.

 

I have been vaccinated by the way, but I shouldn't have to prove this to live my life.

[EVENKEEL]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:08 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Many of those making the most noise complaining about this are the same people who elsewhere have argued for national ID cards and compulsory ID for voting.

 

Pick your politics and argue accordingly.

 

My own thoughts are, anything that ‘nudges’ people to get the vaccine is a step in the right direction.

 

It’s getting way past the time to recognize anti-vaxers and those refusing to wear masks for what they are ‘Free-loaders’ wanting an end to the pandemic but not willing to do their part to end it.

 

 

 

 

 

So you equate requiring an ID to vote to being asked for Vaccine proof. Too funny and yet sad.

[Bagwain]

6 minutes ago, Denim said:

And those that did not recover ..............died.

 

Which is the point of vaccines. Fewer people die if infected and hospitalized .

99.8+ % survival rate. Give me a break! More chance of getting run over by a bus. But that would be a CV death tho!????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you equate requiring an ID to vote to being asked for Vaccine proof. Too funny and yet sad.

No, I’m pointing out the fact that the issues around ID requirements, like the issues around accepting or rejecting a vaccine, are politically loaded.

 

Too funny and yet sad.

 

 

[Purdey]

I have to show proof of nationality when crossing borders. Proof of identity when flying domestically. Proof of membership at my Club. Proof of having had a yellow fever vaccination in certain countries. Proof of basic ability to drive with a driving license. Proof of identity when entering certain offices in Bangkok. Proof of membership when borrowing books from a library. 

 

One more doesn't matter. 

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

This always has been a "papers please" country. Don't understand the sudden aversion to Covid papers. Though it is a bit too soon when it's still difficult to get vaccinated.

 

Asians dutifully mask up, and line up for a limited supply of vaccines. Americans come up with wacky conspiracy theories and refuse them being freely handed out, then start riots when confronted about masks. It's shameful.

Fair enough but surely there is a happier medium?

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No, I’m pointing out the fact that the issues around ID requirements, like the issues around accepting or rejecting a vaccine, are politically loaded.

 

Too funny and yet sad.

 

 

The reason the dems give for no voter ID is that blacks are incapable of this feat. Showing an ID for voting is common sense, The vaccine topic I agree is politically loaded.

[kennw]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:12 PM, johng said:

It makes me feel that the world has/is indeed gone totally mad

Go get the shot and stop bitching, vaccines have beaten polio, smallpox, etc. so what is your problem?

[metisdead]

A post with an offensive Nazi comparison and the replies have been removed.