What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Thanks for letting us know how it affects you, not all of us are the same, many work here. The unwillingness of the govt to give security to Thais with expat family is a big issue for them, often these expats are breadwinners. Attracting rich foreigners will do little to help Thais on the lower echelons and these are the ones hurting most at the moment.

 

When you worked unofficially for a large NGO did you have a work permit? They are required even for volunteers. Making employing farang easier, especially teachers, would help the country. They are not taking Thai jobs.

 

 

You're welcome. That was 20+ years ago when I just did a bunch of 30 day visa exempts at Nong Khai. No work permit. I was reacting to the proposed regs as described. It seems you want something else.

[Smithson]

6 minutes ago, MajorTom said:

Someone posted a thesis many years ago that this is the main problem Thailand has with western immigration. They marry some poor local and give them a status they are not supposed to have. Racism is very strong internally also. They can tolerate us to some point, but what is worse is we drag the lower class up.  Wont have any of that. I think he was onto something important.

 

That's probably also part of the reason for the love they have for the Chinese. They stick to themselves and don't mess with the Thai hierarchy.

 

I'm just posting this as an observation, I am not in that boat. I'm a snob like you and would not marry below my class????

I would be interested in seeing that thesis. A previous government decided women married to expats were a valuable part of Isaan society and gave them recognition for such.

 

A real nastiness has crept into expat life here, when someone is negatively affected some other expats rush to say, not my problem, I couldn't care less, tough luck. It's almost as bad as posters here who need to tell the world their wife never worked in a bar.

[tonray]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

What do they get in return ?............nothing,

I assume they got the goods and services that they spent their baht on.

[Smithson]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

You're welcome. That was 20+ years ago when I just did a bunch of 30 day visa exempts at Nong Khai. No work permit. I was reacting to the proposed regs as described. It seems you want something else.

So 20 years ago you worked illegally. If you were caught, fined and deported then I would have sympathy because the WP rules are unfair. This is the something else I wanted, it's called compassion.

[fondue zoo]

We, the poor, unshaven and unwashed, will not stand for it 

And you're ignorant, we can't get to the rooftops... do you know how hard it is to climb those steel stair ladders in worn out flip flops?

[Longwood50]

Attracting the wealthy is an admirable goal but the truly wealthy have many choices.  I doubt that Thailand would rank high on their lists of places to relocate to.  There is Singapore, Hong Kong, Bali, and lets not forget Hawaii, or Monaco.  

Even if successful, there are many foreigners of average to above average means, but few that are wealthy.  The stores, taxi's restaurants, etc need volume not the purchases of a relatively small group of people in order for them to prosper.  Perhaps the government should figure out that wealthy people do not buy in the markets, eat the same amount as non wealthy people, don't use taxi's and when they dine out, they may order more expensive food, but they don't eat the same amount as if you had 24 diners instead of only 2. 

[MajorTom]

8 minutes ago, Smithson said:

A real nastiness has crept into expat life here, when someone is negatively affected some other expats rush to say, not my problem, I couldn't care less, tough luck. It's almost as bad as posters here who need to tell the world their wife never worked in a bar.

Agreed 100%. I don't judge anyone. Each to their own. Most of my friends wear singlets and probably don't own a pair of pants. I have dated plenty of bargirls in the past. Just lost interest in that segment.

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, Smithson said:

So 20 years ago you worked illegally. If you were caught, fined and deported then I would have sympathy because the WP rules are unfair. This is the something else I wanted, it's called compassion.

Thank you.. As the NGO was under Royal Patronage of HMtK I routinely had lunch with the governor's staff and the local labor officials.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

………….., and even though retired here many married a normal lady and they may have lived in the US, the EU

Your reply was in response to a post that said included:

 

“What BS, do you really think a retired 70-year old taxi driver that comes here and marries a peasant girl half his age should get citizenship? “

 

Can they clarify what you saying, as this could be seen as quite offensive to those that are now married to ladies from that background. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Kadilo

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

The Malaysia MM2H new policies are really draconian with the quadruple increase of the monthly requirement, rising the fixed deposit requirement by a whopping 567% and rising the liquid asset by 329%. Idiotic proposals that deserving got a backlash. It’s put on hold till Dec 22. Fewer than 1 in 20 current visa holders would be able to meet the new requirements. 
 

The Thai proposals are actually different from the Malaysian as it aim to attract and entice new wealthy foreigners and not targeted at current visa holder foreigners of which most staying here. So I don’t understand the outcry. However I do sympathize with then on the fact that things can change on a dime here. 
 

 

Yes, point being things changed on a dime in Malaysia….

 

[Dario]

3 hours ago, Whale said:

All this time here was I thinking I was second class "citizen" in Thailand. Now I realise I am third.

 

Wife left me years ago, kids grown and off abroad. Next one to leave is me. Enough is enough.

 

Its Cyprus or Greece for me.

May I ask: why Cyprus? I just had a look what villas are for sale in Larnaca, but it's only apartments, apartments.

[Neeranam]

41 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

For some the immigration office can be a couple of hours away and if then get turned away on a technicality can build up frustration. 
 

I guess that is why many turn to “helpers” 

I think there is a very high %age of Western retirees here illegally. Using an agent to falsify financial status is illegal, as obviously is bribing an Immigration policeman. Yet, these illegals somehow still feel they have rights here. I would estimate at least 20% fall into this category, using dodgy 'helpers' who charge 15,000 baht +. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, Smithson said:

A friend married a bar girl, took her to Australia. It was about ten years ago. She now has a Australian passport, her Thai son stayed a few years and got permanent residency or possibly citizenship.

 

Meanwhile people who have been here decades, have wife and kids, have set up businesses still have to report 90 days and go through annual extension requiring photos in pyjamas on the bed.

 

It's got worse over the years, in the future they may want vids.

 

It's not just farang, what about Thai families who can never have a sense of security about family members who are usually bread winners too.

Fair point. It is a mixed bag. I was more comparing those who want to retire based on having income or assets. The  rules are pretty reasonable in my opinion.

I brought my girlfriend to Australia and got married and she's a full Australian and got a successful business. Separated now but good friends.  It has been easier for her than an Australian guy marrying in Thailand. 

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, Smithson said:

It's almost as bad as posters here who need to tell the world their wife never worked in a bar.

I find it sadder that some think "work in a bar" means something other than prostitution. Say it as it is. It is quite normal to want to say our wife was not a prostitute(the nicer word for *****)

 

 

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Stocky said:

Unfortunately there are many countries thinking the same and the jam only spreads so far.

That is a very good point you make.  Almost the entire world, except for China, has suffered politically, socially, and especially economically because of Covid. They are all hungry for rich foreigners. And many already offer good deals for retirees and others wanting to relocate. Okay, I understand that Thailand wants the Chinese. But is anybody looking at what is happening in China? Not only is it impossible for most all Chinese to travel outside the country, but there is a major crackdown on wealth inequality in China. I don't see Xi allowing wealthy Chinese under the new circumstances there to skip the country with their loot. Yes, some will come to Thailand and make investments. But they will be frontmen for Chinese state agencies or businesses. If Thailand wants the rest of the rich of the world, it will be competing with Central and South America, the rest of Indochina, and for the Europeans the Mediterranean options there.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Smithson said:

It's not just farang, what about Thai families who can never have a sense of security about family members who are usually bread winners too.

How many farang here do you know that have been refused visas? In 29 years, I have known none to be kicked out. 

I know many Thais who have been refused visas to the UK and US. 

[tomacht8]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

many people who have been living here for a prolonged period (10 years +) some more than 20 years have spent a considerable amount of money, importantly it is money that flows into Thailand and not out.

 

What do they get in return ?............nothing, in fact if anything the authorities seem hell bent on introducing more and more hurdles and red tape, they seem to get some sort of infantile sick pleasure of shafting the tens of thousands of expats and retirees - it is shameful

After 20 years in Thailand? The same address was reported 80 times and a copy of the identical marriage certificate was submitted 20 times. The stack of administrative papers after 20 years in Thailand should weigh around 200 kg per case. In 20 years I have exchanged euros for around 40-50 million baht. The entire Thai family and children supported and given many jobs, health insurance, schoolmoney, cars, motorcycles, cell phones, TVs, refrigerators, furniture, washing machines bought and houses built. And every year when you sit with immigration and have to extend your marriage visa, you get the message that you don't actually have a right of residence.

[JustAnotherHun]

I find it quite funny when retirees tell what they provided to the country.

As if they came here for altruistic reasons.

They came because of the girls, the warmth and because the living costs are (or were) much cheaper campared to their home countries.

 

No doubt, especially Issan has benefited much. Tens of thousands "stone houses" built by foreigners, whole families depending on retiree's money.

But when did the Thai elite ever care about the poor? 

Edited September 15, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[2 is 1]

Its nothing out from me if some richer get more than me! They have always get! They can buy Ferrari/i cant, they maybe have mia noi/ i dont. Point is , many people seems to want what somebody else get/ i dont! Im happy what i have and i deal every day life how needed whit cards what i have get. Jealous im not! I dont give a f , if that one  idiot millionaire want come Thailand and get 10 years visa good for him/her!

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I think there is a very high %age of Western retirees here illegally. Using an agent to falsify financial status is illegal, as obviously is bribing an Immigration policeman. Yet, these illegals somehow still feel they have rights here. I would estimate at least 20% fall into this category, using dodgy 'helpers' who charge 15,000 baht +. 

Add to that the %age of foreigners that marry "sexworkers", do you really think that the Thai government could offer spouses of Thais equal citizen rights? 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

After 20 years in Thailand? The same address was reported 80 times and a copy of the identical marriage certificate was submitted 20 times. The stack of administrative papers after 20 years in Thailand should weigh around 200 kg per case. In 20 years I have exchanged euros for around 40-50 million baht. The entire Thai family and children supported and given many jobs, health insurance, schoolmoney, cars, motorcycles, cell phones, TVs, refrigerators, furniture, washing machines bought and houses built. And every year when you sit with immigration and have to extend your marriage visa, you get the message that you don't actually have a right of residence.

Does your country allow jobless foreigners to stay for 20 years without proving their source of income etc? 

I assume you are not working, as if you had been, there are ways to get proper status here. 

[brucegoniners]

The bottom line is that it's always all about money. We're already here and they figure we're not going anywhere so they can ???? on us all they want.

 

If they loosened the visa requirements and made them multi year that would put a whole lot of immigration employees out of work. Or at least make them a heck of a lot more efficient. And with the graft that goes on there they don't want to see that happen. I've witnessed it myself and it's bad. Just look for one person with a stack of passports who just saunters in and jumps the line, going straight to the agent and laying the passports on his or her desk. Keep in mind, they are a branch of the police. Enough said.

 

Covid has shaken the leaders of this country to their core as it should do. So instead of encouraging more people to come to Thailand who are "digital nomads" and other regular joes they go after the rich.

 

Trust me. It will never work. The rich can afford to be anywhere. Think they want to be in this screwed up country?

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

My point being, don't all other countries do the same?

The USA, for example, asking retirees to invest $500k, to weed out the ones with no money. 

Some expat retirees complaining here have low self-esteem issues.

Permanent Residence in the US comes with oodles of benefits. Free education for children K through 12. Discounted tuition for state universities in states of residence. Student loans. Free emergency medical care (including things such as kidney dialysis and organ transplants). Equal access to museums, national parks, and other federal and state sites. Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security benefits. Earned Income Tax Credits (which are a direct cash payment rather than a mere credit) for children, even if you pay nothing in taxes. When has anyone retired to Thailand received any benefit for doing so? Even if somebody pays a few hundred thousand to get US residency, they will get much, much more returned to them in a few years in the way of direct benefits.

 

I accept this situation, nonetheless. I am not angry at Thailand  for not giving me stuff. I don't expect it and knew it when I first was brought here to work. I prefer life here for a variety of reasons, including the change of pace, leisure to enjoy things more fully, and, yes, the much, much lower cost of living than back in the US. All of which reminds me, what am I doing wasting my time on this complaint board, rather than going back to enjoying myself? CU later.

[Smithson]

25 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Thank you.. As the NGO was under Royal Patronage of HMtK I routinely had lunch with the governor's staff and the local labor officials.

It's still illegal, many government schools here hire teachers illegally as it's easier than getting a WP.  The system that allows some to get away with things while others can't is something Thais often complain about.

 

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How many farang here do you know that have been refused visas? In 29 years, I have known none to be kicked out. 

I know many Thais who have been refused visas to the UK and US. 

Plenty I know have been kicked out, denied entry or had a visa refused.

 

When looking at the issue, we shouldn't just think what suits us or even what suits other expats, ultimately it should be what helps the Thai people the most and I think the current system is not making their lives easier, especially those on the lower runs. That's just my opinion anyway.

[JustAnotherHun]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Does your country allow jobless foreigners to stay for 20 years without proving their source of income etc? 

I assume you are not working, as if you had been, there are ways to get proper status here. 

Right!

Where is the country that makes it more easy for small pension retirees to stay long time? Maybe PH with it's mountain high crime rates an punp gun guards in front of each 7/11?  Or Cambodia with it's lack of each and everything except girls? I don't know.

Edited September 15, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[Smithson]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Add to that the %age of foreigners that marry "sexworkers", do you really think that the Thai government could offer spouses of Thais equal citizen rights? 

Are you suggesting sex workers should have lesser status with the govt then regular Thais? What matters is if the relationship is genuine, plenty of farang marry ex sex workers and taken them to the West. Their previous employment is irrelevant.

[bkk_bwana]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If a Thai retiree wants to live in the USA, he must invest 16,000,000 baht, yet USA retirees here moan about just SHOWING 800,000 baht ONCE a year at immigration. 

Foreigners who work here, and give to the country, can get PR or citizenship, in quite a simple process(especially if married to a Thai).

I find it laughable when I hear a retired butcher, Bert from Bolton, who married Buriram Noi from the Pink Pussy bar, complain about not getting a Thai ID card. 

Others should read and digest these sound words next time they want to complain about Thailand immigration rules

[2 is 1]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Add to that the %age of foreigners that marry "sexworkers", do you really think that the Thai government could offer spouses of Thais equal citizen rights? 

What that matters if farang marry sexworker?! She/he is not Thailand citizen? She/he is not human!? She/ he should not have same right's than other Thai people!?

You say they are under all other people! Who is really bigot and look down own people!

[Pravda]

48 minutes ago, Smithson said:

A real nastiness has crept into expat life here, when someone is negatively affected some other expats rush to say, not my problem, I couldn't care less, tough luck. It's almost as bad as posters here who need to tell the world their wife never worked in a bar.

 

I haven't been here that long....about 8 years. When Thai immigration started enforcing the law and limiting tourist visas, the whole retired community on this forum was cheering loudly.

 

The real nastiness was always towards backpackers, English teachers and other younger "tourists" who were perceived like some kind of threat to old folks and their, you got it, Issan bargirls, so please spare me a bit for not feeling sorry for a bunch of dumbdums who sold off everything in their home country that basically gave them a good, privileged life to come to third world Thailand and marry a prostitute.

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

They are trotting out this hoary old chestnut more and more frequently now as desperation sets in.  The wealthy will not come to live in a place where there is no rule of law; no police force; dangerous roads AND a pandemic of corruption from the local cop up to the very highest in the land. Droughts and floods alternate regularly and then there are the dogs!

So no need to shout from the roof top, save the stamina