My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? :-)

[TXTony]

10 minutes ago, Can samui said:

Buy them each a set of boobs…..problem solved.

This is the best answer. Throw some boobs in there for a year then take them back out afterwards.

[chilly07]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

I don't know if this is an official policy, but I've heard someone is luk khrueng, they aren't pulled into military service here.

Luke khrueng are preffered because of their language skills- they are not excluded from military service

[Falcon]

This is not a new method just thought up by the O’P’s wife, it’s an old trick that doesn’t work or fool anyone. The call up for conscription is based on being named in the house blue book which the Thai citizen needs to be in order to get an id, passport, etc. if the child is entered in there then he will be called up for selection when he reached 18.  Either stay out of Thailand until the person reaches 30 or join ror dor (army cadets basically) for 3 years while in schoo. These are the only 2 options available to live a “normal” life in Thailand and not have to worry about having problems.you can have their name taken off the blue book but this would then cause problems of all sorts during their whole time here, no ID card, no Thai passport, etc. if you try to be clever and do as your wife suggests, you’ll find your some flying in to the country on their English passports and then immediately the immigration outs in their details, they’ll be whisked off to the army camp for 2 years as they do keep information if this nature on their computer and so manage to link the details to the Thai citizenship. I have personally seen a couple of people thinking that they are outwitting the system bu doing exactly what the OP’s wife suggested and it certainly didn’t work out very well for the sons who ended up doing their full 2 years service, directly from Theo airport to the army barracks. Reason for this is that they get a court order (warrant) placed as active on the police computers if the person names in the blue book doesn’t show up for the draw.

[rwill]

18 hours ago, pookondee said:

I dont get how the idea of leaving/returning on seperate passports can even work at all.

 

If entering Thailand from abroad on a different pp,  surely Thai Immigration will be looking for a previous exit stamp?

 

The exit stamp that would be in your other passport.?

 

 

So no one can enter Thailand for the first time?

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, pookondee said:

I dont get how the idea of leaving/returning on seperate passports can even work at all.

 

If entering Thailand from abroad on a different pp,  surely Thai Immigration will be looking for a previous exit stamp?

 

The exit stamp that would be in your other passport.?

 

 

Not if it's the first time they have ever visited Thailand.

 

Immigration would not be aware that they were here as Thais previously if they rock up with a UK passport.

[marin]

18 hours ago, mattk1 said:

Hmm, you really don't understand why the miffed'ness is as a factor?

I think you should be miffed at each other for neglecting to renew their Thai passports. Even within the UK its not that hard to do. Especially with you two being there to help.  

 

Your wife's plan wont work. Its all based on their Thai national ID. Unless you forgo getting these they will be eligible for conscription.

[LongTimeLurker]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

In Thailand it's called Territorial Defense Student  (นักศึกษาวิชาทหาร) 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Defense_Student 

My mate's Luk Krueng son did that, for only 2 months during school summer holidays and got exemption from National Service.

[billd766]

18 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

I was a volunteer and a veteran of some 25 years in the UK RAF as I see it there is no obligation to their country to do national service. In fact there is no need for a bloated Thai military with minimal overseas commitment and there is no reason for national service.

 

Thailand has no real enemies in SEA and I doubt that they have the ability to attack any of their neighbours. From what I have read and seen here in Thailand over the past 20 odd years is that the Thai military, if in a real war fighting a real enemy, they would lose.

 

If you want an example, just look at the southern region where there has been a guerilla war for decades and the army still haven't won yet.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, BMW Overlander said:

Another option is to send your kid(s) to 30 days military camps for 2 consecutive years during high school summer breaks. Best friend of my son did this and is no longer under obligation to serve.

Yes, this.

[Caldera]

19 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

It's the Thai army we're talking about, not the honorable military of your country. I would argue that makes a big difference.

[TigerandDog]

A friend of mine has a step son approaching Thai Lottery draft age. I'm guessing that what applies to his step son could be applied in this scenario too.  While the step son was at high school he joined the school's cadet corp.  Turns out that doing so, and completing the course,  automatically exempted him from the draft.  Perhaps when the OP's kids are old enough, and if attending high school in Thailand, they could do the same thing.  It's worth making enquiries of high schools in the region they would be living in Thailand to ascertain if the school had a cadet corp and if the draft exemption would apply.

[StayinThailand2much]

Ask your kids to pretend to be gay. Always works.

[raptorea]

I brought my wife and her son to the USA when he was 8 years old. He still a Thai citizen and will also become a USA citizen, He is now serving in the USA Navy. My wife and I had a daughter in USA and we got her Thai birth certificate and a Thai passport and have now moved back to Thailand for 3 years. Our son is planning one day return to Thailand after his career in the USA Navy is done he will be well over 30. I am pretty sure he wont have any issues since he will be over 30 I had read will have to pay a small fine but I think that is it from what I read.

[1FinickyOne]

rule of thumb is pretty simple - if it is legal ok - if you are skirting a law, not ok... 

[sometimewoodworker]

All the above seems to suggest that 2 years conscription means that you go and do things like being in the south getting shot at. 
 

Conscripted service can be very different BIL who won/lost the conscription lottery spent the majority of his time being trained in farming, I don’t know if he ever fired a weapon outside the firing range. AFIK this did not involve any payment.

[Gottfrid]

20 hours ago, mattk1 said:

In short: if my half Thai/British kids leave Thailand on their Thai passports but return on their British passports – would that work for them to dodge Thai army / national service as they would be treated as ‘foreigners’ who need a visa and 90 day reports?

Sure! It´s 1890, computer are not invented and Immigration has no clue how to link passports with different nationalities. Nah! That won´t work.

[phetphet]

I don't know if it would work or not. But I like her style. Clever woman. ????

[rct99q]

9 hours ago, bbko said:

I don't know if this is an official policy, but I've heard someone is luk khrueng, they aren't pulled into military service here.

Part of what I have heard about this, though, it is usually a language barrier issue. Not sure.

 

I have two, one I have begged the local "council" (wink, wink, bribe) to take the sh*t stain of a son. My other one wants to go at eight years of age!

[rct99q]

24 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

All the above seems to suggest that 2 years conscription means that you go and do things like being in the south getting shot at. 
 

Conscripted service can be very different BIL who won/lost the conscription lottery spent the majority of his time being trained in farming, I don’t know if he ever fired a weapon outside the firing range. AFIK this did not involve any payment.

My wifes family is from Isan so strike number one. Dark skinned, strike number 2, poor! 

Two brothers got picked. Both got injured in some border skirmishes.

 

Keep praying this luck continues to the next generation with my son.

[surfinglife]

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

[Thingamabob]

My son did the 2 year cadet course while he was at school and has therefore legally avoided the national service lottery.

 

BTW I'm still trying to figure out why your wife was so angry with Thai Immigration. It appears from what you say they simply applied the standard procedure.

 

[JustAnotherHun]

Some brown envelops surely will avoid your kids army time.

In all my years in Thailand I never paid a bribe to anyone, but if it comes to the point that my son has to go to the military there I will at all costs.

[dutchweller]

19 hours ago, Fab5BKK said:

Interesting post of yours...

 

Background info, military service was mandatory in my country and I made the choice to become an officer (training at the Officer Academy, rank: Lieutenant)

 

You claimed to be a "vet", it'd be good to know the rank you managed to reach at the end of your duties.

 

BTW, situation in Thailand is quite different. If I'm not mistaken, a Thai kid who has a non-Thai dad can be called for military service BUT can't become an officer in the Thai army.

 

So, who is the most "morally bankrupt"?

Correct the Thais will treat a lukrung like total <deleted>..
There was a speight of News stories that were brushed under the carpet of Kids being beaten to death while at basic training..

 

I will certainly be making sure my son is not a slave for some Thai general to treat as a domestic servant.

Thai military is notorious for many many things.

Giving your son a good education and well rounded discipline is NOT one of them.
If anyone thinks its anything but free labor and mussel for the Thai Generals to play with as they please is deluded.

If my son is to do service it will be in my home country.

Where I know he will be treated fair and given the opportunity for an excellent higher education  or Trade As I did.

 

AFAIK if your child is enlisted in a foreign military they don't want them in the Thai Military.

 

Have linked to some stories of what its like in Thai Military

 

Organs Missing after suspicious death
https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2017/11/21/organs-missing-military-academy-cadets-body/
 
Died during training suspicious death

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2020/08/18/cadet-who-died-in-training-called-up-to-join-military/

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/5/22/culture-of-violence-the-thai-militarys-problem-with-abuse

[2 is 1]

18 minutes ago, surfinglife said:

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

IN many country todays army is sissy boys playing service. Here in Finland anyway, when i was army i serve 330 days and from those days i live in forest 115 days. My tank is now scrap iron (T-72) russian sht, enemy see smoke from that sht 10 miles away.

(sergeant 2 is 1) 

Edited September 24, 2021 by 2 is 1

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I was a volunteer and a veteran of some 25 years in the UK RAF as I see it there is no obligation to their country to do national service. In fact there is no need for a bloated Thai military with minimal overseas commitment and there is no reason for national service.

 

Thailand has no real enemies in SEA and I doubt that they have the ability to attack any of their neighbours. From what I have read and seen here in Thailand over the past 20 odd years is that the Thai military, if in a real war fighting a real enemy, they would lose.

 

If you want an example, just look at the southern region where there has been a guerilla war for decades and the army still haven't won yet.

Not so long ago they lost against Laos:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai–Laotian_Border_War

[Brayka]

I can only say, that a guy whom I know, living in Europe for 10 years, had to go back for his duty 

[Tom89]

21 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

I'm a vet too. I volunteered at a time when the draft no longer existed in my country. I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with someone who doesn't' want to be there. I don't see it as being morally bankrupt. Not everyone is cut out for it. On top of that I see forcing someone to do a job they don't want to do as a form of slavery. 

[jippytum]

Why not let the kids join the army if selected . No chance of any fighting and the chances of becoming a member of parliament or prime minister would be greatly enhanced.

[Mansell]

For the guy who took umbrage of somebody avoiding going into the army and not earning his whatever in your eyes. What a bunch of <deleted>…..military service should be voluntary and not forced, especially when the richies can buy their kid out of it….nothing equitable in that…..as usually the poor and uneducated end up going and being probably brutalized by the ignorant. I did my time voluntarily in the British military……it was somewhat laughable as boy seamen we got paid more than the National Service guys in their last years. Did it make me a better citizen….No. Country and Queen and waving flags in my book is jingoistic utter rubbish foisted on the proletariat by the brainwashing system that’s been around for hundreds of years. John Lennon had it right when he wrote “Imagine.”

[dutchweller]

4 minutes ago, jippytum said:

Why not let the kids join the army if selected . No chance of any fighting and the chances of becoming a member of parliament or prime minister would be greatly enhanced.

 Thais will treat a lukrung like total Garbage
Lukriung CANNOT BE an officer
Lukriung CANNOT BE a MP
You child would be used as a domestic slave for some General (If he lucky)
You child will be used to conduct the latest Cu de ta and be ordered to fire on anyone who objects..

 
THIS

 

Organs Missing after suspicious death
https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2017/11/21/organs-missing-military-academy-cadets-body/
 
Died during training suspicious death

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2020/08/18/cadet-who-died-in-training-called-up-to-join-military/

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/5/22/culture-of-violence-the-thai-militarys-problem-with-abuse

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