Everyone will be exposed vs. everyone will be infected?

[ozimoron]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Right but suppose it enters your body and your immune system vaccinated or not quickly fights it off without ever making you at all sick. Does that count as an infection?

yes, the salient point is that your body will generate antibodies against the virus.

Edited October 4, 2021 by ozimoron

[bbko]

What our experts say

When it comes to infectious diseases, "exposure" means coming into contact with a virus or bacteria. Infection happens when someone is exposed and actually becomes sick from the exposure. Exposure does not always lead to an infection. If the time a person is exposed to the virus is very short, if the amount of virus that enters the body is not in a large enough quantity, or if the body's immune system is able to quickly fight it off, then exposure will be less likely to lead to infection.

Many things have to happen for an exposure to result in an infection, especially the ways in which a person was exposed to the virus. In the case of the virus that causes COVID-19, exposure takes place usually by breathing in the virus through the nose or the mouth, and sometimes the virus enters our bodies through the eyes. People can be "exposed" to different viruses in different ways, such as by eating food with a virus on it, or getting bit by a mosquito or other animal that carries a virus. Again, in the case of COVID-19, exposure typically happens by breathing in the virus through the nose or the mouth.

Other factors that can impact whether an exposure leads to an infection include whether the germ is a virus, a bacteria or a parasite; how strong or "infectious" it is; and the strength of our body defense system (immune system).

For example, you could be exposed to whooping cough (pertussis) by someone in the same room as you, but whether or not you end up being infected depends on several factors. These factors include how close to the person you were, how long you were exposed for, and if you are vaccinated against whooping cough.

 

Source: https://health-desk.org/articles/what-is-the-difference-between-exposure-and-infection-to-a-virus

Edited October 5, 2021 by Maestro
Added link to the source

[pizzachang]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're  missing my point.

The question was why are we getting announcements that everyone will be infected when many of the exposures don't lead to infection.

IMO, the post doesn't "miss your point".  The answer was specific and accurate. Announcements by various medical experts, may or may not be the answer and seem colored by different biases - possibly according to financial reasons.  Very few viruses, exhibit no "symptoms" in the body (as far as I've read) Most of the "flu or cold" types, cause only a slight "off" feeling" such as itchy eyes, or a "glassy" look to the eye - as many of us have observed in children. Asymptomatic is a bit vague IMO, since this is nearly always describing the infected person's "feelings" and not a medical test.  

Does the extremely high survival rate of this virus's symptoms, imply that many people do not "have symptoms"?  Even one of the "tests" given, doesn't accurately determine which actual virus is present - just that one is.  All this is only my opinion, but it does seem clear that the virus is endemic; many people have already had it and have an adequate level of immunity to experience either, no "symptoms" or symptoms that are so mild, that they don't differentiate them from any other "feelings" they have experienced. So, the people you describe, are "infected", but the highest percentage of them belongs to the either the survivor group or the group which experienced little or no "symptoms".  Nothing has changed the conditions where the virus is successful in weak/ill/compromised humans. [from all I have read on CDC, etc, websites] People can "avoid" exposure by isolation, and possibly by super- hygienic practices, but the moment this ceases, there is always the possibility of infection. All (traditional) vaccines do not prevent exposure.  Just consider that each of us has probably been exposed to many kinds of viruses that we were vaccinated against and we did not go and get tested, every time we had a "symptom".  Personally. I have had "chicken pox" as a kid, and then "shingles", as an adult (about 35 years later)  The second was one of the worst set of "symptoms", I've ever had - felt like a really bad flu and one lesion ("pox" ) on my face. Long time recovery - about 3 weeks from the first symptoms.  Comparing that to my own and a few friends "symptoms" with c19, (tested) and there is no comparison. 

[mrfill]

Perhaps they mean that everyone will eventually be exposed to the coronavirus Sars-cov-2, but not necessarily infected with covid-19.

 

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That everyone will come into contact with the virus. Well, yes obviously but being exposed to it is not the same as being infected. 

Everyone is exposed to the virus every time they go outside.

The potential for infection depends on your personal self-protection.

 

[nobodysfriend]

Covid , at least the Delta Variant , is very infectious .

It infects people as well , who have already been vaccinated and these people still can spread the virus .

People who were cured of the virus , and those who are fully vaccinated of course , have antibodies in their blood that wane after a few month, but they still are able to transmit the virus to others .

So , we have a virus that continues to spread , no way now to stop that . It will infect everybody in the long run , if it does not miraculously disappear ( Trump ) .

The only way to protect yourself from infection is by avoiding all social contacts . But even this is not secure as the virus survives for a while on surfaces that were touched before by infected persons .

Vaccinations protect you from becoming seriously ill , that's all .

Edited October 5, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[millymoopoo]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Or do they REALLY mean that everyone will literally be infected, at least at a no symptom level, and including vaccinated people?

Most probably - yes..!

Afterall aren't we supposed to rely on experts for definite answers to questions like this.?

Is it not a question of how contagious the virus is.?

Experts use the rating system 'R₀', with the original covid virus being (if memory serves) about 1.5, that is every infected person passes it on to 1.5 other people, I've read somewhere that the delta variants rating is 5, so 1 person passes it on to 5 others.

It seems the only purpose in life the virus has is to replicate itself, and it obviously is evolving to do just that, as much as possible.

Being vaccinated does not preclude you from getting infected.

You can still get infected, the vaccine prepares you for that eventuality and fights off the infection much quicker.

Thus if infected you can still spread the virus, albeit for a shorter period of time.
And this may well be how we get out of this pandemic.

With vaccinated people having less time to spread the virus, there will obviously be less infections.

Covid 19 is here to stay, it's just a matter of controlling it, just like how we have done with the Spanish flu (H1N1a), which is still out there, but is included in the flu shot many of us get annually.

Hopefully, in time, covid 19 will be included in the flu shot to.

[IAMHERE]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Right but suppose it enters your body and your immune system vaccinated or not quickly fights it off without ever making you at all sick. Does that count as an infection?

I had two Moderna shots. I took the PCR test to fly. I tested positive. Absolutely no symptoms. Three days later I tested negative. So I was considered Covid infected and told to self quarantine for ten days.

My opinion is if your happen to breath in some virus and get tested before your immune system kills them, then you'll test positive. Five hours later your immune system has probably completed its job and all the virus are dead but you are counted as Positive case already. The PCR testing is not interpreted correctly is my opinion. I didn't have Covid, I had some of the virus's because I'd breathed them in; my system was fighting them off like it was designed to do.

[nobodysfriend]

30 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

My opinion is if your happen to breath in some virus and get tested before your immune system kills them, then you'll test positive.

The tests find the antibodies in your blood , not the virus itself . If you have antibodies , you have been infected before . An exposure only does not lead to antibodies .

 

There should be a simple test for the antibodies available in pharmacies . because people who have antibodies might have recovered from an infection with Covid without even knowing that they had previously been infected . ( asymptomatic or few symptoms ) .

In the case somebody has antibodies without ever having been vaccinated , this person has no need for a vaccination anymore as the antibodies acquired by ' natural infection ' , last generally longer than those acquired by a vaccination .

I guess a lot of people have already been infected without even knowing it . These people do not need to be vaccinated .

Edited October 5, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[nobodysfriend]

46 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Thus if infected you can still spread the virus, albeit for a shorter period of time.

First time I listen this ... do you have a link ?

[Smokey and the Bandit]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Right but suppose it enters your body and your immune system vaccinated or not quickly fights it off without ever making you at all sick. Does that count as an infection?

Yes, asymptomatic, in other words if you had a Covid test you would be positive for a time!

[DefaultName]

As a non-medical person, my take is that everyone will be infected. 

The vast majority won't even notice.

The vaccinated who get sick won't get very sick.

The unvaccinated who get sick could be a lot sicker, possibly hospitalised, possibly die.

[Katipo]

My own humble opinion is that everyone will get exposed to one variant of another at some point, much like other highly infectious airborne viruses (such as the many different types of flu). If you are young, healthy, vaccinated, chances are you will barely notice, if at all. Older, overweight, pre-exisiting comorbidities , and not vaccianted, you are at much greater risk of serious and long lasting effects, possibly death.

[chilly07]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

The tests find the antibodies in your blood , not the virus itself . If you have antibodies , you have been infected before . An exposure only does not lead to antibodies .

 

There should be a simple test for the antibodies available in pharmacies . because people who have antibodies might have recovered from an infection with Covid without even knowing that they had previously been infected . ( asymptomatic or few symptoms ) .

In the case somebody has antibodies without ever having been vaccinated , this person has no need for a vaccination anymore as the antibodies acquired by ' natural infection ' , last generally longer than those acquired by a vaccination .

I guess a lot of people have already been infected without even knowing it . These people do not need to be vaccinated .

Adds an extra layer of beuracracy and delay so easier and faster to vaccinate everyone

[millymoopoo]

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

First time I listen this ... do you have a link ?

From WHO.!

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/media-resources/science-in-5/episode-49-can-i-get-infected-after-vaccination?gclid=CjwKCAjw7--KBhAMEiwAxfpkWLUpEIkQS7Olbxs-39-4mUHb8-nFQIxh7_XE2OdRQWvTALhq9NtcJBoC1kIQAvD_BwE

[Puccini]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm trying to understand what the scientists really mean when they say everyone will eventually be infected. 

Do they really mean that or do they actually mean everyone will just be exposed to it.

If I were to read that a person says "everyone will eventually be exposed" I would assume that this person actually means it, but in the absence of this person's definition of "exposed" I would ignore it.

 

If I were to read that a person says "everyone will eventually be infected" I would assume that this person actually means it, but in the absence of this person's definition of "infected" I would ignore it.

[unblocktheplanet]

My son is a senior research scientist at J&J. Consensus there is that we'll all eventually become infected and hopefully somewhat protected by vax & boosters.

 

What worries me most is that vax may not protect from long Covid debility.

Edited October 5, 2021 by unblocktheplanet
addition

[Puccini]

23 hours ago, sirineou said:

I would think that to be infected you need to have a positive test. . 

It depends on the definition being used for "infected". A web page of the WHO gives definitions for

• Suspected case of SARS-CoV-2 infection
• Probable case of SARS-CoV-2 infection
• Confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection

Read more: https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1322790/retrieve

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

K.I. S.S / ASSUME :-

Everyone Gets Exposed /Infected / Diseased / Symptoms.

Everyone Western Vaxxed Does Not DIE or get SERIOUS Disease.

 

Thats It. Simply Get AZ / Pfizer / Moderna / Johnson.

Then Stop Worrying. You are now Covid- SAFE. Even with Conditions.

DO also Improve Diet / Health / Weight for Best Overall Fitness / Immune System.

You have then completed a Maximum Covid / Illness Prevention Effort.

Now far higher Death / Disability Risk from Normal Hazards ( Road / Assault / Cancer / Stroke, etc.).

[CharlieH]

Tollong misinformation and  the responses to the removed posts all removed.

[Puccini]

10 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

I guess a lot of people have already been infected without even knowing it . These people do not need to be vaccinated .

From this web page of the WHO:

Quote

 

Should I be vaccinated if I have had COVID-19?

Even if you have already had COVID-19, you should be vaccinated when it is offered to you. The protection that someone gains from having COVID-19 will vary from person to person, and we also don’t know how long natural immunity might last.

 

From this web page of the American Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC):

Quote

 

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 

vaccine?

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 because:

• Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.

• Vaccination helps protect you even if you’ve already had COVID-19.

 

 

[Puccini]

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

What worries me most is that vax may not protect from long Covid debility.

From recent news reports I have seen, over 90% of Covid-19 patients with severe conditions are unvaccinated. 

 

This scientific publication notes that the risk of long-Covid effects highest with a severe disease. This suggests to me that vaccination reduces the risk of long-Covid.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Puccini
Added link

[cdemundo]

14 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

I had two Moderna shots. I took the PCR test to fly. I tested positive. Absolutely no symptoms. Three days later I tested negative. So I was considered Covid infected and told to self quarantine for ten days.

My opinion is if your happen to breath in some virus and get tested before your immune system kills them, then you'll test positive. Five hours later your immune system has probably completed its job and all the virus are dead but you are counted as Positive case already. The PCR testing is not interpreted correctly is my opinion. I didn't have Covid, I had some of the virus's because I'd breathed them in; my system was fighting them off like it was designed to do.

Your point is taken, but can the test differentiate between a person whose immune system will eliminate the virus and a person who will become ill?  Can the test tell the future?

[bangon04]

The media hype surrounding "Infection" rates is simply feeding the frenzy in most countries. We should stop feeding the frenzy. Asymptomatic infection is not the problem.

 

What is really important is the Hospitalization rate, and then the excess death rates.

 

It is obvious from the statistics in the west that the majority of hospitalizations are of UN-vaccinated people.  

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

...

Everyone Western Vaxxed Does Not DIE or get SERIOUS Disease.
...

That is NOT true.

[richard_smith237]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

6 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

...

Everyone Western Vaxxed Does Not DIE or get SERIOUS Disease.
...

That is NOT true.

Its not true when talking in absolutes... but its very close to being true.

 

i.e the vast majority who have been ‘vaccinated do not suffer serious symptoms or die from Covid-19’  but that doesn’t mean the vaccine is going to work for everyone - there is no 100% guarantee. 

 

(I think by Western vaxxed he meant Jansen, Pfizer, Moderna, AZ - which also a fair comment as Sinovac has poorer stats, I’m not sure about Covishield, Sputnik or Sinopharm).

 

 

[pizzachang]

22 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

The PCR testing is not interpreted correctly is my opinion. I didn't have Covid,

From what I've read, a human can test positive 'because of the general nature of the "test". It may even be an different virus!  My close friend (of 25 years) not vaccinated with anything except a yearly influenza" shot, tested positive, felt very minor symptoms for 3 DAYS,, after his quarantine. he decided on an mRNA "vaccine". So far, he has not "tested positive" ( his medical field job required 2 tests per week) Did he have covid, or another virus? No lab test was administered (where a sample is cultured and then identified - most people do not get that one) So, we are actually going by symptoms, and an unreliable test or at least a hit or miss test. Then these figures are used to set policies.  I suspect that most people have already had covid 19 (going by symptoms). Covid also seems to follow (again, according to what I've read) the standard "more infectious/less lethal", direction of this type of virus.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

richard & jing: you have both lost the stated context here. my post  starts with word in caps ASSUME.

( after the Keep It Simple Stupid acronym) . My idea is to provide simplified basic assumptions for sufficient clarity and peace of mind to people here like OP confused by too much and conflicting data. Standard educational technique to presage absolute unconditional statements when presenting simplified Concept with Assumptions…….end of my post does modify by gently indicating there is still risk but less than everyday hazards.

 

Do you have any facts supporting that fully western- vaxxed people have died or been Hospitalized ?

Genuinely curious…….haven’t seen any reports so reasonably assuming its near or actual Zero.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:52 PM, DavisH said:

I would think everyone will be exposed to the virus at some point - how your body reacts to it is another matter - some may be asymptomatic with no symptoms, then "recover", or get anything from a mild to serious illness (or death). So I guess if the virus is present, one is 'infected', but could have no symptoms or have symptoms. Perhaps the point of the article is that the virus will become endemic and not go away. It will probably mutate and future vaccines may be required. 

IMO it'll be like the flu- always there, but not considered a big deal by most.

I've had the flu injection, and I don't go around worrying about it.

Edited October 6, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[rickudon]

I think 'everyone will get infected' is a generalisation. True for most people. It is possible that some people's genetic makeup means that they cannot get infected, but we do not know that for certain. It is possible that some peoples immune system after vaccination or infection will be so good that getting infected becomes impossible for a while - but we do know that many can be infected again.

Draconian quarantine policies could theoretically prevent the majority of some populations being exposed (China, Australia, New Zealand) but as it looks like the virus is going to become endemic such policies would have to be maintained, possibly for ever. And we have seen with Delta variant this is becoming extremely difficult in practice.

 

Herd immunity is looking unlikely. Many people after vaccination or infection are still getting infected. I personally know one person, a friend of my son, who has now been infected 3 times - twice since July, even after vaccination. Vaccination is good at reducing risk of death, serious side effects and hospitalisation, but not so good at preventing infection - Israel and the UK with adult vaccination rates of 80% plus clearly demonstrate this.

 

Reality - we should all expect a visit from Corona virus, at some time. All we can do is take steps to reduce the severity or likelihood of infection. There are possibly better vaccines and medicines in the future, but it looks like we will have to live with it.