Thai netizens fierily debate Pfizer vaccine for students as anti-vaxxers emerge

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, Denim said:

Yes. Went for first pfizer jab today. Quite a few expats and a thousand or more school kids.

Took 4 hours start to finish.

appreciate, thus hope they will call my kid, she was registered with (at) her school

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

Thai netizens fierily debate Pfizer vaccine for students as anti-vaxxers emerge...

is there such a word as fierily?

Fiery & Fiercely combined is my take on it....

[Rimmer]

Troll and off topic posts removed also replies

[GreasyFingers]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

He may be an antivaxxer now but he is the one who supposedly help send us on this path we are now on, and the MRNA technology is being used for more than just a Covid vaccine now.  Some folks have druthers after creating something and wished they had not as it is not what they perceived it to be.  Look at all the tall tales and stories about the PCR inventor, yet it is still applicable.  Everyone has their own opinion and they are more than welcome to it.  All i did was point out how far back this type of vaccine technology started and by whom.  Not taking a side one way or another as I believe in vaccines and for the good they have done our world. Sure some have created issues for people but everyone's body is different and what one can take another can not, but until you try a vaccine or medication one never knows what kind of side affects they may endure.  For the large majority they are safe.

 

https://www.realclearscience.com/2021/07/15/supposed_mrna_vaccine_inventor_is_a_covid_crank_785624.html

Given the way mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are being demonized and how he apparently believes that they are so deadly and ineffective, I have to ask: Why is Malone so eager to claim ownership of them as their inventor? There really is a major disconnect here in his thinking. On the one hand, Malone’s desperation to be properly recognized by the scientific community as the one true “inventor of mRNA vaccines” is palpable. On the other hand, he routinely describes these vaccines (or at least the current COVID-19 vaccines) as not merely ineffective, but also horrifically deadly, a message amplified by quacks like Bret Weinstein and Joe Mercola, who proclaim these vaccines to be “the biggest crime against mankind in the history of humanity.” Why, if Malone truly believes that these vaccines are such scourges and horrors, would he want to be recognized as their inventor? If he were, then wouldn’t all the horror, death, and destruction attributed to the vaccines by antivaxxers then become, in large part, his fault? 

You got that from Google. Try some other non curated search engines.

[LongTimeLurker]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

are any kids being vaccinated and if yes, where

Pattaya, today.

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

 

In late 1987, Robert Malone performed a landmark experiment. He mixed strands of messenger RNA with droplets of fat, to create a kind of molecular stew. Human cells bathed in this genetic gumbo absorbed the mRNA, and began producing proteins from it¹.

Realizing that this discovery might have far-reaching potential in medicine, Malone, a graduate student at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, later jotted down some notes, which he signed and dated. If cells could create proteins from mRNA delivered into them, he wrote on 11 January 1988, it might be possible to “treat RNA as a drug”. Another member of the Salk lab signed the notes, too, for posterity. Later that year, Malone’s experiments showed that frog embryos absorbed such mRNA². It was the first time anyone had used fatty droplets to ease mRNA’s passage into a living organism.

And Malone also says that mRNA should not be administered to young adults and children.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

Oh please!

 

This isn't new technology.

Get out from under that rock.

 

mRNA technology has been around since the 1960's.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

 

 

But has only been used in experimental vaccines given to humans since 2015.

 

Same article you quote.

[seedy]

5 hours ago, johng said:

Good ????  debate is what is needed...not censorship,de platforming and ridicule of those with a differing opinion  who may in the end turn out to be proven correct !

 

4 hours ago, timendres said:

Indeed. Tired of the "anti-vax" label. People who are a bit dubious of a vaccine technology that failed to garner FDA approval for 15 years, but it suddenly "safe", are simply being prudent. I have had many "traditional" vaccines in my life, but this new technology is something for which I have a "wait and see" approach. Maybe those blindly lining up for the vaccines should be labeled "anti-critical-thinkers".

Hear Hear

Freedom of Speech should not be Curtailed (within agreed limits)

Or you will have no Freedom.

Article 10 of the Human Rights Act: Freedom of expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

[LongTimeLurker]

16 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

So far, more than 5 billion vaccines have been administered world wide. Did anyone hear of any large-scale problems or side effects?

Show me the medium term (5 year) and long term (10 year) data of the effects of these 5 billion vaccinations.

 

I'd even accept 3 year data.

[Why Me]

Antivax is an industry. Con artists making money of halfwits. That's their right and their business. But the problem is the virus risk they pose to the rest of us.

[MrJ2U]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

But has only been used in experimental vaccines given to humans since 2015.

 

Same article you quote.

Get vaccinated.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Antivax is an industry. Con artists making money of halfwits. That's their right and their business. But the problem is the virus risk they pose to the rest of us.

How much money does an anti-vaxxer receive for everyone NOT vaccinated?

 

How much money does a vaccine manufacturer receiver for everyone who IS vaccinated?

 

Yet the antivaxxers are the ones making the money from halfwits?

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, MrJ2U said:

Get vaccinated.

I am, waiting on my booster now.

[LetsGoBrandon]

10 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Get vaccinated.

Fact: There is no option that says: Get Unvaccinated.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

Oh please!

 

This isn't new technology.

Get out from under that rock.

 

mRNA technology has been around since the 1960's.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

I see. So how many mRNA vaccines were deployed prior to COVID-19, or for that matter, approved by the FDA? Thought so.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, Scott Tracy said:

Perhaps If you wait long enough, you won't have to worry about long term affects...

555 Perfect example of the "balance" in this debate.

[ballpoint]

It's more than a little ironic that those who are refusing the Sinovac-AZ "cocktail" while awaiting Pfizer or Moderna, - and therefore have not yet been vaccinated, are calling those who have already had the Sinovac-AZ shots, but are doubting the safety of the mRNA ones, "antivaxxers".  

[GreasyFingers]

32 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

And Malone also says that mRNA should not be administered to young adults and children.

Looks like a couple of the Scandinavian counties agree with him with Moderna being sidelined there.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I think you're wildly underestimating both the effects of covid on those "not at exceptional risk" and the benefits of mass vaccination.

I am trying not to "estimate" anything. I am just a guy on the sidelines. But it appears to me that those in charge have tunnel vision, and the debate on the best approach to handling this pandemic is not as balanced as it should be. What we all want is the optimal approach to the problem.

[GreasyFingers]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

I am trying not to "estimate" anything. I am just a guy on the sidelines. But it appears to me that those in charge have tunnel vision, and the debate on the best approach to handling this pandemic is not as balanced as it should be. What we all want is the optimal approach to the problem.

And not listen to the sycophantic platitudes we get on here how the CDC and FDA have never made a mistake and have everything under control for OUR benefit.

[ClaySmc]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

This isn't new technology.

Get out from under that rock.

 

mRNA technology has been around since the 1960's.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

Thanks! That was a great article; just full of information on the whole history of mRNA.

 

It even had some humor:

Quote

 

"Both Ingmar Hoerr, at CureVac, and Uğur Şahin, at BioNTech, told Nature that, after learning of what Gilboa had done, they wanted to do the same, but by administering mRNA into the body directly.

 

Hoerr was the first to achieve success. While at the University of Tübingen in Germany, he reported in 2000 that direct injections could elicit an immune response in mice12. He created CureVac (also based in Tübingen) that year. But few scientists or investors seemed interested. At one conference where Hoerr presented early mouse data, he says, “there was a Nobel prizewinner standing up in the first row saying, ‘This is completely <deleted> what you’re telling us here — completely <deleted>’.” (Hoerr declined to name the Nobel laureate.)"

 

I wonder how that prizewinner is feeling now?

 

[LongTimeLurker]

29 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Looks like a couple of the Scandinavian counties agree with him with Moderna being sidelined there.

And Pfizer.

[MrJ2U]

46 minutes ago, timendres said:

I see. So how many mRNA vaccines were deployed prior to COVID-19, or for that matter, approved by the FDA? Thought so.

You won't be able to do much without being vaccinated.

 

 

[unblocktheplanet]

So what's Cigna selling here? Merck antivirals: $700/course as opposed to a tenner for vaccine.

 

My one worry is how long antibodies from Pfizer last. I chose AZ.

 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, johng said:

Good ????  debate is what is needed...not censorship, de platforming and ridicule of those with a differing opinion  who may in the end turn out to be proven correct !

OTOH the anti-vaxxers are doing the same thing to the pro-vaxxers who may also be proven correct.

 

As an aside my wife and I explained to our 17 year old son the pros and cons of getting vaccinated and let him make the decision. our 2 neighbours did the same with their daughters aged 13 and 16. The result was that our son and the oldest daughter next door got their Pfizer vaccinations this morning and the younger daughter will get vaccinated next week as she goes to a different school.

 

The only effect on our son was a bit of soreness around the jab site.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, Mavideol said:

are any kids being vaccinated and if yes, where

Yes. My son and my neighbours daughter at their school in Kamphaeng Phet province this morning.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Because this is how genuine scientific knowledge among the general public should be disseminated.  By non-scientists debating.

But where do the non-scientific debaters get their information from?

[johng]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

OTOH the anti-vaxxers are doing the same thing to the pro-vaxxers who may also be proven correct.

I don't see pro vax  statements being censored  or pro vax scientist being de-platformed and branded as quacks  even though they may well be proven correct.

[Paradise Pete]

7 hours ago, johng said:

Good ????  debate is what is needed...not censorship,de platforming and ridicule of those with a differing opinion  who may in the end turn out to be proven correct !

Yes, of course. After all, only a few billion doses have been safely administered. we need more data! ????????‍♂️

[Blumpie]

6 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Thailand has a lot of anti-vaxxers.  They were just not very prominent when most people were stepping over each other trying to get vaccines.

People who do not want vaccines do not become prevalent until after most have had their first dose.  You will see the numbers of those who do not want to be vaccinated.

USA seems to have the biggest proportion of people who do not want to be vaccinated, but I could be wrong on that.