7 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Opening up, albeit in a careful and orderly manner, is an absolute necessity, as one can‘t close up the world wide economy for ever.

You reckon? If they don't open up NOW, IMO there won't be much world economy left to open up.

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

We're in the middle of a war that's already killed some 10MM people globally.  And with the potential for variants to crop up that are even more deadly, it's time to act.  Vaccines have been mandated before.  Why is this time so different? 

 

P.S. it's nothing like eugenics.  It's called public safety for ALL.

To use terms like "war", does not assist in addressing the need for good Public Health Education, Health Promotion messages fail when fear is invoked, this has been proven during the bad days of the HIV epidemic. 

People are not receptive to education when fear is used, They may become compliant, however education is rarely achieved. Good health promotion achieves lasting change to behaviours and knowledge

 

The UK figures are misleading. They still do more tests than most other countries.

Over 50% of infections are in school age children. Majority of hospital cases and deaths still in the unvaccinated and immune suppressed. Its endemic now. Time to stop the scaremongering and get on with life.

let me give you a brief run down....

I hope you're too pessimistic. If Pfizer third jab actually prevents infection in 95pct of cases (reported recently), then there is certainly a way forward, eventually. The world is still in a  learning stage. As emergence of new variants rely on transmission we should hope that there is hope. 

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Time to get tough on those who refuse the vaccine and put the safety of others at risk.

 

This sentiment right here is why so many are apprehensive about the covid vaccine and why so many despise/protest/push back against governments for having the same sentiment.

 

An unfortunately successful campaign to blame your fellow countrymen for the virus rather than the virus itself. People who were just like everyone else suffering from the same problems just months ago are now all of a sudden being blamed for covid. It creates alot of hate and anger and is generally not helping anything, but makes for good political swipes and headlines. 

 

Nevermind the fact that you still have a very high possibility to catch and spread covid even when vaccinated, so the whole argument is that your fellow countrymen are putting you in any kind of danger is hyperbolic nonsense. 

21 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

BS.  I saw Fauci on the TV almost every day.  He's a true hero.  Sad some don't understand this.  A man who's committed his life to public service, and, an expert in this area.

Is that the same Fauci that was caught out lying about the Gain of Function research in China funded by the NIH that he was in charge of? The same Fauci that approved killing beagles in Tunisia with sand flies. Yep, a true hero!

2 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

We all, wherever we are, will have to learn to live with this awful Corona virus with all its old and new mutations. Vaccinations, including boosters, and all other precautionary measures will be of great assistance, but although absolutely necessary, will not eradicate the virus. Opening up, albeit in a careful and orderly manner, is an absolute necessity, as one can‘t close up the world wide economy for ever.

So far, pretty much every opening up has been followed by a spike in cases in deaths.  Hard to open up until more are vaccinated.  It's the #1 weapon we have against this enemy.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You reckon? If they don't open up NOW, IMO there won't be much world economy left to open up.

Many countries are doing OK.  But yes, quite a few not so good.  And most of them have not done well with vaccinations.  Like Thailand.

59 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

 

This sentiment right here is why so many are apprehensive about the covid vaccine and why so many despise/protest/push back against governments for having the same sentiment.

 

An unfortunately successful campaign to blame your fellow countrymen for the virus rather than the virus itself. People who were just like everyone else suffering from the same problems just months ago are now all of a sudden being blamed for covid. It creates alot of hate and anger and is generally not helping anything, but makes for good political swipes and headlines. 

 

Nevermind the fact that you still have a very high possibility to catch and spread covid even when vaccinated, so the whole argument is that your fellow countrymen are putting you in any kind of danger is hyperbolic nonsense. 

This same anti vax group are covid deniers.  Against masks and think horse medicine is better than a proven vaccine.  Yes, the virus is to blame.  But so are those who refuse the vaccine and spread misinformation.  They are the main impediment now.  The virus will never go away.

 

A majority of us who've gotten the vaccine are hateful and angry towards those who won't get vaccinated for silly reasons.  Sorry, but that sword cuts both ways.

30 minutes ago, toolpush said:

Is that the same Fauci that was caught out lying about the Gain of Function research in China funded by the NIH that he was in charge of? The same Fauci that approved killing beagles in Tunisia with sand flies. Yep, a true hero!

You really need a better source for your news.  Google the above and mostly far right and fake news websites are talking about beagles.  It's very misleading.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-vaccine-experiment-beagles/

 

In this case, it is likely true that research conducted at UGR was at least in part funded by NIAID and NIH with taxpayer dollars, though it is unclear whether such allocations were personally approved by Fauci. 

Reported trolling image removed.

uk tests more people per head of pop than anywhere else by a long way,each person has been tested almost 5 times so u r gonna see a lot of positives,the reality is that deaths are very low.lower than theyve ever been.so.........some people arnt willing to vax so they will be effected.it appears theyre anti vaxers minorities and young people,at 50k a day though it wont take long for that set to get natural immunity and a fair no die so problem solved!its up to them take your pick,if your young youll be ok,the others will do what theyve always done....blame someone else.

5 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

That is dangerously close to dictatorship, I understand what you indicate, however I have a problem with  mandating health interventions on a national scale. Eugenics comes to mind

Wasn't that Annie Lennox and another bloke ?

1 hour ago, wombat said:

let me give you a brief run down....

Let me give you a brief rundown.....
Fortunately it does matter if you are fully vaccinated.
Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected and transmit the virus.
Masks can be effective and stop transmission.

Covid is surging again in the UK because my stupid Conservative UK Govt., instead of keeping it mandatory on public transport, shops and indoor public gatherings, have  lifted all legal restrictions on mask wearing and made it a matter of choice. This gives licence to the many selfish, thoughtless, and/or purely ignorant people to behave as if the pandemic is over, and creates a social 'most people do what most people do' sheep paradigm which many feel pressurised to follow. OK, the compulsory wearing of masks outdoors in Thailand is OTT, but Thailand has maintained throughout, and will, I think and hope, sensibly continue to make mask wearing compulsory at indoor public gatherings, in shops, outdoors in crowded places and on public transport, This creates the opposite social sheep paradigm which most Thai people quite happily and sensibly follow. And this I hope will probably save Thailand from recurring surges like the the surge that the UK is likely to suffer in the coming Winter. I hope I am right about Thailand and wrong about the UK.

Worth a read.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/09/28/unvaccinated-americans-blame-everyone-but-themselves-children-vaccines-and-not-wearing-masks-for-covid-surge-poll-finds/?sh=5081fc189a82

 

Unvaccinated Americans Blame Everyone But Themselves—Children, Vaccines And Not Wearing Masks—For Covid Surge, Poll Finds

12 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Masks can be effective and stop transmission

Yes.

 

Wombat please note: As most virus transmission is airborne, mask-wearing obviously must considerably reduce transmission. It took the so-called advanced West a while to accept this but they finally got the message, and it is only the minority with learning disabilities (No disrespect meant to those with Learning Disabilities) who still refuse to accept this.

4 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

Yes.

 

Wombat please note: As most virus transmission is airborne, mask-wearing obviously must considerably reduce transmission. It took the so-called advanced West a while to accept this but they finally got the message, and it is only the minority with learning disabilities (No disrespect meant to those with Learning Disabilities) who still refuse to accept this.

My wife was just commenting how we've not had any common colds or the flu the past few years, nor has anyone she knows.  Makes you wonder why some question the use of masks, social distancing, washing your hands, etc.  These things work.  That's a proven fact.

This is now an endemic , we have to live with it for a very long time, only cure as of now are vaccinations to ease the situation.

48 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

This same anti vax group are covid deniers.  Against masks and think horse medicine is better than a proven vaccine.  Yes, the virus is to blame.  But so are those who refuse the vaccine and spread misinformation.  They are the main impediment now.  The virus will never go away.

 

A majority of us who've gotten the vaccine are hateful and angry towards those who won't get vaccinated for silly reasons.  Sorry, but that sword cuts both ways.

I was an early adopter of the Vaccines and I certainly am not hateful nor angry towards others who made different decisions to mine. For whatever reason.

Decisions to vaccinate should be made with informed consent and without coercion. 

People make decisions on many things to do with their health over the years and many decisions are complex decisions they make,  

I respect their right to make different decisions to ones I may choose to make, and if asked will attempt to give them facts and and supportive knowledge, to allow them make their decisions on their bodies and the responsibility which that decision entails.

 

 

The urge to open up regardless of surging infections is Tory politics pandering to capitalist lobbying  by their profiteering supporters and has nothing to do with concern for their fellow man.

Bojo continues to blither and blather not wanting to upset his hard right avoiding soft solutions such as masks home working hygiene which is all that's needed to slow down the infection rate and because of his dithering encourages the Covid deniers anti maskers superspreaders who are responsible for the current surge

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

I was an early adopter of the Vaccines and I certainly am not hateful nor angry towards others who made different decisions to mine. For whatever reason.

Decisions to vaccinate should be made with informed consent and without coercion. 

People make decisions on many things to do with their health over the years and many decisions are complex decisions they make,  

I respect their right to make different decisions to ones I may choose to make, and if asked will attempt to give them facts and and supportive knowledge, to allow them make their decisions on their bodies and the responsibility which that decision entails.

 

 

You are in the minority then.  The majority of us who are vaccinated are angry at those who won't...mainly for ridiculous and selfish reasons.  Time to end this foolishness.  Time to get tough with the hold outs.  Their decisions have a direct impact on our lives.  So no, it's not up to them.

 

 

It will end when governments stop trying to control something they clearly cannot control.

 

I don’t understand why it’s going to take a decade and be far too late to understand  things that have been clear for a very longtime. You can’t stop Covid. You have to live with it. All Covid regulations and restrictions should be immediately stopped, that way we are just dealing with the virus, and not the virus PLUS the wake all these regulations leave for everyone.

17 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My wife was just commenting how we've not had any common colds or the flu the past few years, nor has anyone she knows.  Makes you wonder why some question the use of masks, social distancing, washing your hands, etc.  These things work.  That's a proven fact.

A friend has just sent me an email with a load of photos in it from past days/eras, and one which stands out, but I can't copy it as an individual photo, is one from the US 1918 Spanish flu pandemic and it has a pic of a group of American folk all wearing masks, with the caption.............

 

Look closer, the sign reads: WEAR A MASK OR GO TO JAIL. Spanish flu, California 1918...  

So this precaution has been around for over a hundred years now, so it shouldn't be a surprise, and IMO more people should follow it.

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You are in the minority then.  The majority of us who are vaccinated are angry at those who won't...mainly for ridiculous and selfish reasons.  Time to end this foolishness.  Time to get tough with the hold outs.  Their decisions have a direct impact on our lives.  So no, it's not up to them.

 

 

Your opinions are what you want to have a direct impact on lives of those around you. People who don’t want to vax want everyone to do exactly as they please. You have it backwards. The moment you truly make an effort to understand this distinction, is the moment you realize you’re wrong. The conversation may be different (and you may have a point) if it was a vaccine with a decade or so research behind it’s possible side effects. But that isn’t the case, and the vaccine also is not proven to provide long term protection vs people’s natural immunity (in fact the opposite seems to be the case at this point). 
 

why are they prohibiting the use of some of these vaccines in Denmark and other countries? Why don’t the companies that manufacture the vaccines take responsibility for possible side effect, as they do with other medicines? And a million other questions none of you will answers, because there are no answers except for the rhetoric the governments are feeding you and you ate hook line and sinker. I can’t get over that, who actually believes governments? 

Article about Ireland's county which achieved 99.7% vaccination rate (among adults) yet some of the areas in it show increase of covid cases (nothing mentioned about hospitalizations).

Does anyone have more details about this? 

5 minutes ago, sucit said:

Your opinions are what you want to have a direct impact on lives of those around you. People who don’t want to vax want everyone to do exactly as they please. You have it backwards. The moment you truly make an effort to understand this distinction, is the moment you realize you’re wrong. The conversation may be different (and you may have a point) if it was a vaccine with a decade or so research behind it’s possible side effects. But that isn’t the case, and the vaccine also is not proven to provide long term protection vs people’s natural immunity (in fact the opposite seems to be the case at this point). 
 

why are they prohibiting the use of some of these vaccines in Denmark and other countries? Why don’t the companies that manufacture the vaccines take responsibility for possible side effect, as they do with other medicines? And a million other questions none of you will answers, because there are no answers except for the rhetoric the governments are feeding you and you ate hook line and sinker. I can’t get over that, who actually believes governments? 

Don't agree.  You're in the minority.

26 minutes ago, sucit said:

The conversation may be different (and you may have a point) if it was a vaccine with a decade or so research behind it’s possible side effects. But that isn’t the case, and the vaccine also is not proven to provide long term protection vs people’s natural immunity (in fact the opposite seems to be the case at this point). 

And there you have it............. 

 

This is the type of rhetoric that is prevalent on anti-vaccination websites, and which attracts more sceptics with more misinformation, and this helps drive the people to make decisions against vaccination.

 

Research has shown that the type of misinformation as regards the safety of the vaccines, supposed side effects, time taken to develop them and sometimes involvement of "big Pharma" is prevalent in certain circles and stokes the anti-vaccination campaigners.

57 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You are in the minority then.  The majority of us who are vaccinated are angry at those who won't...mainly for ridiculous and selfish reasons.  Time to end this foolishness.  Time to get tough with the hold outs.  Their decisions have a direct impact on our lives.  So no, it's not up to them.

Not me, I don't care who is vaccinated and who isn't.

If you're vaccinated, you're safe, no need to worry about what anyone else is doing.