The new requirement for insurance coverage of at least $50,000 to enter Thailand

[Tony M]

You are hopefully aware of the new requirement for all "visitors" to hold at least $50,000 insurance coveragein order to enter Thailand, even those of us who are on annual extensions of stay. I have no problem with requiring visitors to hold medical insurance for the period of their visit, and I do have health insurance already.  However, this new requirement means that those of us who live in Thailand on annual extensions of stay, and who already need to hold bank balances of up to 800,000 THB, must now purchase mandatory insurance for up to, possibly, 12 months even if we only leave Thaioland for one day and then return. You are, presuambly, aware of the cost of insurance coverage for elderly "visitors", and many of us are elderly. It looks like the newly required insurance coverage could mean a policy cost of up to 1,000 GBP (for 12 months coverage) just for having left Thailand for a day or two, or a week or two.  

 

Ways around this requiremnt have been suggested. For instance, don't obtain a re-entry permit/visa and abandon your annual extension of stay, apply for a new non-imm o visa outside of Thailand, re-enter Thailand and start the whole extension process again. Really ?  There will be discussion on this subject, for sure.  At least one thread is open in this visa forum (https://aseannow.com/topic/1238067-pattaya-retirees-feel-%E2%80%9Ctrapped%E2%80%9D-in-thailand-because-of-insurance/).  It is headed "pattay retirees", but applies equally to many "visitors" to Thailand.  My request to you is for the British Embassy to lobby the Thai government on this matter.   As stated above, I'm not against requiring visitors to hold insurance. It's something we should do in the UK too. But, many of us don't consider ourselves to be "visitors" to Thailand despite the Thai governments position on this. We are not visitors. We live here, own property, have businesses, etc.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the 800,000 THB held in the bank was to cover such things as medical emergencies ? 

 

It's time that Thailand recognised that many of us are not visitors to Thailand, and made some concessions to long-term "residents". In the alternative, perhaps the UK should consider reciprocity and require Thai visitors to the UK to purchase compulsory medical insurance or hold up to 20,000 GBP in their bank account while in the UK ?  I do, of course, realise that the Embassy's hands are somewhat tied, but surely the concerns of British visitors (and other nationalities too) should be brought to the Thai governments attention ? I am asking you to do this on our behalf.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Tony M

[Havenstreet1940]

A valiant effort doomed to fail, as no one in the Embassy is listening.  Wait for the silence!

[Eff1n2ret]

39 minutes ago, Tony M said:

I do, of course, realise that the Embassy's hands are somewhat tied, but surely the concerns of British visitors (and other nationalities too) should be brought to the Thai governments attention ?

To me that sentence would make more sense if it said "British expats"??? Visitors from the UK have a choice as to whether they want to fulfil whatever conditions Thailand imposes on their entry. Those of us advanced in years who live here and maintain funds in the bank don't want to face the choice of never going back to see friends and family or going there and being unable to come back because of the prohibitive cost of insurance we've never needed before.

I suppose everybody's circumstances are different. At 77 I don't expect to be able to get any insurance worth the paper it's written on, but apart from the funds I hold here I have the equivalent of several million baht in UK accounts, and that's before I've sold the house I still own there. I've been in hospital 3 times here and paid cash down. I don't intend or want to be a charge on the Thai taxpayer.

What I would ask the Embassy to lobby for is some 'grandfather' scheme which exempts long-term extension/re-entry permit holders above, say 75years from any insurance requirement if they've never been subject to such a requirement before.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

just enter Visa Exempt. then use Agents to bypass the whole Immigration <deleted>show.

[Eff1n2ret]

'Visa exempt' isn't insurance exempt.

[Tony M]

6 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

To me that sentence would make more sense if it said "British expats"??? Visitors from the UK have a choice as to whether they want to fulfil whatever conditions Thailand imposes on their entry. Those of us advanced in years who live here and maintain funds in the bank don't want to face the choice of never going back to see friends and family or going there and being unable to come back because of the prohibitive cost of insurance we've never needed before.

I suppose everybody's circumstances are different. At 77 I don't expect to be able to get any insurance worth the paper it's written on, but apart from the funds I hold here I have the equivalent of several million baht in UK accounts, and that's before I've sold the house I still own there. I've been in hospital 3 times here and paid cash down. I don't intend or want to be a charge on the Thai taxpayer.

What I would ask the Embassy to lobby for is some 'grandfather' scheme which exempts long-term extension/re-entry permit holders above, say 75years from any insurance requirement if they've never been subject to such a requirement before.

Good stuff.   Let's inform the Embassy of our concerns.  

[bokningar]

All the way since they started to demand insurance for O-A visa. Further demand for insurance has been in the making. They recently raised the bar for O-A to 3 500 000 Thb.

My guess is that in a few years, all long term stay in Thailand will only be possible if you have insurance that has been stipulated by Thai authorities.

 

My plan was always to retire in Thailand when my parents are gone. Now I don’t think this will be the case anymore. Maybe they won’t go down that path. But now I’m looking at options. To settle down permanently, you need to feel quite confident that the rules are stable over time. And Thailand isn't providing that confidence.  

[British Consular Team]

On 11/4/2021 at 4:18 PM, Havenstreet1940 said:

A valiant effort doomed to fail, as no one in the Embassy is listening.  Wait for the silence!

We are listening and where we can we are responding, as you can see if you look at our answers to other queries on our pages here. And we will get back to Tony M. 

[British Consular Team]

Thanks for raising this @Tony M and for setting it out so fully. We'll have a look at your point next week and get back to you. 

[Denim]

10 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

We'll have a look at your point next week and get back to you. 

But as a sensible precaution , don't hold your breath.

[hotandsticky]

18 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

Thanks for raising this @Tony M and for setting it out so fully. We'll have a look at your point next week and get back to you. 

 

As one of many who have been critical of the embassy's support for expats, I applaud your initial response to TonyM's post. 

 

The reaction of @Denim is typical of the lack of expectation many of us have. You will understand that is based on experience, and perceptions, over many years.

 

Although anonymous, you appear to be showing a greater degree of empathy than we have seen in the past. In my opinion YOU have the opportunity to prove me, and the likes of Denim, wrong. I assure you that I will be the first to hold my hand up and welcome this new age of genuine understanding and support for expats.

 

You have picked up the baton and will be judged on your ability to follow through on TonyM's excellent request for you to lobby the Thai authorities. I genuinely wish you well and achieving that and I look forward to seeing your follow up response in the very near future.

[Havenstreet1940]

37 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

We are listening and where we can we are responding, as you can see if you look at our answers to other queries on our pages here. And we will get back to Tony M. 

No offence intended my comment was merely reflecting past experience with the British Civil Service and the Establishment over the years.

 

Good to know you will get back to TonyM

[Tony M]

2 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

Thanks for raising this @Tony M and for setting it out so fully. We'll have a look at your point next week and get back to you. 

Thank you for recognising the problem.  Hopefully, some pressure can be put on the Thai government to alleviate our concerns.

[Tony M]

3 hours ago, Tony M said:

Thank you for recognising the problem.  Hopefully, some pressure can be put on the Thai government to alleviate our concerns.

Some interesting thoughts and comments, on the subject, in this thread -  

 

[Tony M]

40 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Some interesting thoughts and comments, on the subject, in this thread -  

 

And this thread also shows the complexity of this issue :

https://aseannow.com/topic/1238210-elderly-expats-dazed-and-confused-over-insurance-‘retirement-visas’-and-covid/

 

[Robin]

I am 77 yrs old, married to a Thai lady for over 30 yrs, and we just want to enjoy the rest of our lives together in Thailand. I have been here on Non "O" retirement extensions snice that was introduced.  I have no problems with keeping the money required in my bank here, and in fact have made a point of keeping at least 2million Baht in the bank as a reserve for me or wife.

Before Covid, I would travel to UK once or twice a year, as I still have property there and income from that.  

Now with Covid and the new rules on health insurance, I feel I am trapped in Thailand.  At my age (77) and taking medication for high blood pressure, the health insurance requirement for re-entry is impossible or prohibitively expensive.  Every policy I have looked at has a 75 yr age limit..

I am at a loss to know what to do, and I feel I am not alone in this position.   I endorse the feeling of 'Eff12n..'  -:

" 1- |Despite claims to the contrary they really don't want any visitors to go to Thailand right now

2- They hired a bunch of idiots to set up the evisa application, maybe after a few bribes, and those idiots just made it harder to make it look like they actually deserve all that money."

and further think that Covid is being used as an excuse to raise the bar fro all visitors to Thailand to keep out those thought by the HiSos as 'undesirable.'

 

is there going to be any answers or concessions made  about this, or will it become a case of finding an 'Agent' who, for  fee, will provide a worthless bit of paper that will satisfy Immigration, or find an insurance policy as any cost, and this become another overhead of living in Thailand.

I had been hoping for constructive suggestions to appear on this sit.

[Chris.B]

Why does everyone forget the guys who can't get insurance? There is an age limit on many policies so if you are too old you can't get insured. Also, if you have an existing medical condition(s) you can be denied insurance.

 

Please don't answer that xyz insurance company will insure people upto XX years old. You will probably find if you have a single medical condition it's one strike and out!

 

So what are these guys to do? The health insurance requirement for Thailand Pass doesn't make allowance for guys who cannot get insured.

 

 

 

[Chris.B]

4 hours ago, Robin said:

is there going to be any answers or concessions made  about this, or will it become a case of finding an 'Agent' who, for  fee, will provide a worthless bit of paper that will satisfy Immigration, or find an insurance policy as any cost, and this become another overhead of living in Thailand.

I had been hoping for constructive suggestions to appear on this sit.

The health insurance is not required by Thai Immigration for your Visa/Extension. It is required by Thailand Pass which is run by MFA and MOPH, I believe?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Chris.B

[Eff1n2ret]

7 hours ago, Robin said:

Every policy I have looked at has a 75 yr age limit..

Today I renewed my car insurance via AA Insurance brokers, who are (or were) sponsors of ThaiVisa, and asked them about insurance to comply with the Travel Pass requirement, being the same age as you. They gave me this link:-

https://quote.worldtrips.com/atlastravel/?referid=28083&language=en-US

I put in the data based on a trip to the UK on 1st December (intending to return on a re-entry permit within about 2 weeks), policy to run till 21st Feb which is my extension date. The quote came back for over $700, although that reduces to less than $500 with deductibles. So you can get a policy at 77, albeit bl00dy expensive.

BUT the Covid cover says it's not available in your home country, so I asked what that means, he said it's the country of your passport. So it would only be worth booking for the one-way return trip. I have previously bought Thai travel insurance for a trip to the UK, almost worthless because it excluded nearly everything. 

Insurance for the Travel Pass seems to be doable, even for us extreme wrinklies, but at a very high cost.

[Tony M]

14 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Today I renewed my car insurance via AA Insurance brokers, who are (or were) sponsors of ThaiVisa, and asked them about insurance to comply with the Travel Pass requirement, being the same age as you. They gave me this link:-

https://quote.worldtrips.com/atlastravel/?referid=28083&language=en-US

I put in the data based on a trip to the UK on 1st December (intending to return on a re-entry permit within about 2 weeks), policy to run till 21st Feb which is my extension date. The quote came back for over $700, although that reduces to less than $500 with deductibles. So you can get a policy at 77, albeit bl00dy expensive.

BUT the Covid cover says it's not available in your home country, so I asked what that means, he said it's the country of your passport. So it would only be worth booking for the one-way return trip. I have previously bought Thai travel insurance for a trip to the UK, almost worthless because it excluded nearly everything. 

Insurance for the Travel Pass seems to be doable, even for us extreme wrinklies, but at a very high cost.

Don't worry, the Foreign Secretary is here this week. I'm sure she will bring this up with the Thai government, and all will be resolved.

[thonglorjimmy]

I suspect I'm not the only one who is reaching the tipping point here and seriously considering returning to the UK, that'll be a couple more on the NHS waiting list but an increase in my State Pension.

 

My only concern is that I might be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[theoldgit]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:39 PM, Tony M said:

Don't worry, the Foreign Secretary is here this week. I'm sure she will bring this up with the Thai government, and all will be resolved.

 

I remember having a similar conversation with a previous Foreign Secretary, though I mentioned frozen pensions and he smiled and walked away.

I can't remember his name, he was a very personable chap.

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, thonglorjimmy said:

I suspect I'm not the only one who is reaching the tipping point here and seriously considering returning to the UK, that'll be a couple more on the NHS waiting list but an increase in my State Pension.

 

My only concern is that I might be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Will the increase in your pension cover the iniquitous council tax, or will said tax swallow a chunk of your pension?

[Salerno]

17 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I put in the data based on a trip to the UK on 1st December (intending to return on a re-entry permit within about 2 weeks), policy to run till 21st Feb which is my extension date.

IF you regularly travel back, one option would be to get a one-way flight to the UK and then a return UK-Thailand with Emirates to get their free travel insurance (get the return flight a year out and change if needed to maximise cover). At the moment the free insurance offer is due to run out at the end of the month but it has been extended previously (ticket just has to be bought during the offer period).

 

https://www.emirates.com/au/english/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance/

[Tony M]

17 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Today I renewed my car insurance via AA Insurance brokers, who are (or were) sponsors of ThaiVisa, and asked them about insurance to comply with the Travel Pass requirement, being the same age as you. They gave me this link:-

https://quote.worldtrips.com/atlastravel/?referid=28083&language=en-US

I put in the data based on a trip to the UK on 1st December (intending to return on a re-entry permit within about 2 weeks), policy to run till 21st Feb which is my extension date. The quote came back for over $700, although that reduces to less than $500 with deductibles. So you can get a policy at 77, albeit bl00dy expensive.

BUT the Covid cover says it's not available in your home country, so I asked what that means, he said it's the country of your passport. So it would only be worth booking for the one-way return trip. I have previously bought Thai travel insurance for a trip to the UK, almost worthless because it excluded nearly everything. 

Insurance for the Travel Pass seems to be doable, even for us extreme wrinklies, but at a very high cost.

I asked for an insurance quote from one of the advertisers on Aseannow.  This is the quote (attached) for me, 71 years old.  Yes, it includes dental, etc and there are deductibles that can reduce the premium. You might be forgiven for thinking that the premiums shown are annual, but they are monthly. The cheapest option, if I have worked it out correctly is a mere 10,000 GBP a year.  Yes, ten thousand Pounds a year !  The top option (of the three options) is pushing 20,000 GBP a year !

 

 

[thonglorjimmy]

15 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Will the increase in your pension cover the iniquitous council tax, or will said tax swallow a chunk of your pension?

No the increase in my State Pension will not cover the Council Tax payments, though I would no longer be paying  the monthly charge in our estate here, and the two would would be about equal, but the increase in State Pension would push me into the higher rate tax bracket.

 

I need to factor in the increases in Council Tax, along with those of water, gas and power, tv licence  - the list goes on, not to mention property, though I wouldn't need to pay for the use of NHS services as I'd be resident, assuming I could get an appointment.

 

A lot of thinking time ahead, and we're not rushing things, sadly the inconsistencies in the implementation of Thai Immigration by individual officers, along with the "what ifs" are pushing us towards the tipping point.

 

At my age I just want a quiet life.

[Chris.B]

18 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I put in the data based on a trip to the UK on 1st December (intending to return on a re-entry permit within about 2 weeks), policy to run till 21st Feb which is my extension date. The quote came back for over $700, although that reduces to less than $500 with deductibles. So you can get a policy at 77, albeit bl00dy expensive.

What pre-existing medical conditions did you state? Have you had any operations within the last 12 months and declared that? Have you been to hospital, seen a doctor or been prescribed medicines in the last 12 months and declared that? Have you declared any physical disabilities?

 

You cannot claim insurance is available when you haven't disclosed all the facts of your application!

 

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

I remember having a similar conversation with a previous Foreign Secretary, though I mentioned frozen pensions and he smiled and walked away.

I can't remember his name, he was a very personanble chap.

William Hague

[Eff1n2ret]

5 hours ago, Chris.B said:

What pre-existing medical conditions did you state? Have you had any operations within the last 12 months and declared that? Have you been to hospital, seen a doctor or been prescribed medicines in the last 12 months and declared that? Have you declared any physical disabilities?

 

You cannot claim insurance is available when you haven't disclosed all the facts of your application!

 

In the  interests of clarification I went on to the website previously quoted and followed the application all the way through to 'pay and submit'.  There was no request to declare any pre-existing conditions or treatment. Unsurprisingly, however, the "terms and conditions" on their home page do state that pre-existing conditions are not covered. That does not mean that the insurance is "unavailable", it just means that the cover would be limited, but you would have a policy which you could presumably use for the Thailand Pass.....

....except that their small print on the payment page says it's a travel policy, not health insurance:-

I understand that the insurance applied for is not a general health insurance policy, but is intended for use in the event of a sudden and unexpected event while traveling outside my Home Country. I understand that my insurance terminates upon my return to my Home Country

I was reading another thread where the OP, like myself, is not interested in health insurance, he found a policy for approx $50 to get through the Thailand Pass requirement. That sounds a far better bet than the above policy - I'm sure they won't mind taking $50 from a 77-year-old.

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

II was reading another thread where the OP, like myself, is not interested in health insurance, he found a policy for approx $50 to get through the Thailand Pass requirement. That sounds a far better bet than the above policy - I'm sure they won't mind taking $50 from a 77-year-old.

What thread is that?