Land department Bangplee office gave me FALSE information about the possibility of buying a house in my child's name

[Khabib]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

I have no idea whether that's a Bualuang Securities-specific restriction, but generally, foreigners can trade the two classes of company shares (Thai- and Foreign-ownsership) and also NVDRs (non-voting depository receipts).  (The Thai class does not allow dividends, the other two do.)

That is correct, I believe. You clearly understand this too.

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Can you recommend a good brokerage company that is linked to a good bank like Bangkok Bank, Krungsri or KrungThai?

Why would you specifically want a broker linked to a bank? Had you considered that an independent broker might be more focussed upon its job?

 

In any case, I can't because my two Thai brokerage accounts are not Thai bank related.  

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

I "own" a house standing on my Thai daughter's land. She has the chanote to the land, I have my name on the building permit. It seems the latter is in reality meaningless in terms of ownership, although it's not been tested, by for instance my trying to sell the house. I have a usufruct agreement with her, entered on the chanote. The local IO refuse to accept the house as my address, claiming my daughter is the owner. Welcome to the real world.

The name on the building permit has nothing to do with ownership. Only the name on the chanot is ownership. 

Say you want to sell me the house. How will you transfer "ownership" to me? Where will it be registered? AFAIK usufruct is non transferable. Once you sell me the house how can you guarantee I will have access to the house if I have to go through someone else's property? 

[Khabib]

1 minute ago, Oxx said:

Why would you specifically want a broker linked to a bank? Had you considered that an independent broker might be more focussed upon its job?

 

In any case, I can't because my two Thai brokerage accounts are not Thai bank related.  

Bualuang are excellent, that's for sure. Not too much to focus on for them, since everything is electronic.

[Justanotherone]

Thanks for the replies.

 

The land department officer that said it was ok, that was part of my due dillegence, was the same person that was gently forced to do her job, putting my child on the chanote , my ex wife owned, agreed in family divorce court in an agreement signed in front of the judge, but she never respected this made agreement and i had to go back to the court to petition them and force land department to do their job.  Even with this, they still tried to send us home, until i called my lawyer and suddenly it was possible but it took another 6 months and many visits to pay petty costs and signatures every time for the next step.

 

This officer knew the difficult situation but months later when we contacted her first, before even trying to find a house, to be sure this was not a pipe dream.

 

So if you cannot trust information about a buy/sale fron the land department, who can yo trust ?

 

The info we got weeks ago was, no problem as long as the child was Thai and someone PAID for it, no mention of approval of ex / mother of child, rather important or rather incompetence or lazy...

 

I will file a formal complaint with the department or ombudsman.

[Burma Bill]

17 hours ago, EricTh said:

Foreigner is allowed to have savings account that bear interest.

Yes indeed. I had a savings account with Bangkok Bank for almost 20 years into which all my monthly pension payments were credited. Having a linked debit card I treated like a current account. Like your good self, the interest was a dreadful pittance, less than 100 baht per year!!

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

This is a sad sad world...

 

Farang cannot buy a house in his name

 

Farang is not allowed to buy stocks (asked several banks where I am client for YEARS)

 

Farang is not allowed to have a saving account that give some interest...

 

Farang cannot give money to his child to buy a house in child's name without the ex that is knowhere to be seen ...

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, but a child need permission from it's guardian(s) to invest. Have you checked with a lawyer about the possibilities..?

 

However, I'm a farang-foreigner and I can own a house, but not the land under the house, which I for example can lease;

and I can buy as many stocks I like, just like any foreigner can under either the 49 percent limit, or with the NVDR-option;

and I can have Thai bank accounts in my name that pays me interest, just I have an address in Thailand, which is easy to obtain.

 

You might be able to buy the property with a company limited, where your Thai-child owns shares, even a majority - I never had any problems with that, I don't think the mum signed anything, check with an experience property-lawyer - you can control the company via preferred shares, there are more than one method to do that...????

[bradiston]

5 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Did the land office wanted both parents' consent before transferring to your daughter's name?

 

 

 

No, neither, as she was 19 at the time, if I recall. I had taken a very short lease, only 3 years, on the land, to avoid transfer taxes, and the seller and I agreed a clause whereby he would sell to my daughter at a later date.

 

But a word of caution. A clause such as this could well be struck down in a Thai court of law. The argument being, the agreement forms part of a lease, not a sale agreement.

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Pretty sure he'll need his wife's concent to "buy" shares in the company as well. Also there are many threads in this forum about the costs and procedures for selling a company owned house and dissolving the company. Can be a painful and costly procedure. 

No parental consent needed for a child to own shares in a company, my adopted daughter owns my company and her mother couldn't be traced at the time of opening the company.  The house can be sold out the company or with the company, you then have the issue of shutting the company down which can be expensive.  We haven't got there yet.

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

The name on the building permit has nothing to do with ownership. Only the name on the chanot is ownership. 

Say you want to sell me the house. How will you transfer "ownership" to me? Where will it be registered? AFAIK usufruct is non transferable. Once you sell me the house how can you guarantee I will have access to the house if I have to go through someone else's property? 

Regarding the usufruct, I believe you are correct, it terminates with one of the party's demise.

 

Regarding access, as it happens, my daughter's land is surrounded by another owner's land. In Thai law, and I can quote chapter and verse, you have access, if so surrounded, via the shortest or most accessible route, to the nearest public road. I am also within my legal rights to construct a roadway/pathway to my house, but that's another story, and probably would involve a court.

 

And yes, selling the house without the land, and vice versa, would seem to be fraught with problems, even if possible.

[KhaoYai]

Why do people enter in to property sales/puchases in Thailand without using a solicitor?  Would they do that in their home country?  Certainly not in the UK.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Why do people enter in to property sales/puchases in Thailand without using a solicitor?  Would they do that in their home country?  Certainly not in the UK.

I only used a solicitor in the UK because I was forced to.

Cash at the land office is much easier, cheaper, and less risk IMHO.

 

My last house purchase in the UK .........

The solicitor 'forgot' to register the house I purchased, then the Law Society took me to court for not paying his bill ............. and lost. I had to hire a second solicitor to register the house, 6 months after I had moved in..

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by BritManToo

[bradiston]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I only used a solicitor in the UK because I was forced to.

Cash at the land office is much easier, cheaper, and less risk IMHO.

 

My last house purchase in the UK .........

The solicitor 'forgot' to register the house I purchased, then the Law Society took me to court for not paying his bill ............. and lost. I had to hire a second solicitor to register the house, 6 months after I had moved in..

 

Amazing, isn't it. I sold a flat to my daughter earlier this year in the UK. We "completed" on May 12th, but the actual title transfer still hasn't been completed. Bank, freeholder, and Land Registry. What a complete and utter shambles, solicitors and all.

[ericthai]

13 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

The land department officer that said it was ok, that was part of my due dillegence, was the same person that was gently forced to do her job, putting my child on the chanote , my ex wife owned, agreed in family divorce court in an agreement signed in front of the judge, but she never respected this made agreement and i had to go back to the court to petition them and force land department to do their job.  Even with this, they still tried to send us home, until i called my lawyer and suddenly it was possible but it took another 6 months and many visits to pay petty costs and signatures every time for the next step.

 

This officer knew the difficult situation but months later when we contacted her first, before even trying to find a house, to be sure this was not a pipe dream.

 

So if you cannot trust information about a buy/sale fron the land department, who can yo trust ?

 

The info we got weeks ago was, no problem as long as the child was Thai and someone PAID for it, no mention of approval of ex / mother of child, rather important or rather incompetence or lazy...

 

I will file a formal complaint with the department or ombudsman.

Good luck with that complaint....you must be new to Thailand?

 

This is normal for government offices. One day you get told this, next day you speak to someone else at

the same office and you get different information.  You'll learn that no IO is going to volunteer info, especially

things such as...."are your divorced sir?...if so you'll need your wife's permission."

Nobody in the government in Thailand is forward thinking enough to provide details that may be important but

you didn't think to ask. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Just offer the mother some money to sign for it and add a 30 year lease to the house for yourself, she can't take a loan out or sell the place and by the time the lease expires your child is adult and full owner.

 

I mean, I assume deposit on a house is quite a sum, and you somehow liked it, so might as well add another 50K to get it done then... Mother might even be foolish enough to think she can sell it and signs.

Edited November 23, 2021 by ChaiyaTH

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 11/22/2021 at 6:31 PM, Justanotherone said:

Farang cannot buy a house in his name

 

Farang is not allowed to buy stocks (asked several banks where I am client for YEARS)

 

Farang is not allowed to have a saving account that give some interest...

 

Farang cannot give money to his child to buy a house in child's name without the ex that is knowhere to be seen

With this pathetic attitude I reckon you'd be better off buying property elsewhere, not in Thailand.

Thailand has different systems to that of the west, you've got to assimilate, with all your negativity I can't see it working for you

[Justanotherone]

Good advice to buy a house for my child in another country, lol