https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/02/europe/germany-lockdown-covid-restrictions-intl/index.html

Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

 

Germany on Thursday announced a nationwide lockdown for the unvaccinated, as its leaders backed plans for mandatory vaccinations in the coming months.

 

Unvaccinated people will be banned from accessing all but the most essential businesses, such as supermarkets and pharmacies, to curb the spread of coronavirus, outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel and her successor, Olaf Scholz, announced Thursday, following crisis talks with regional leaders. Those who have recently recovered from Covid-19 are not covered by the ban.

 

The pair also backed proposals for mandatory vaccinations, which if voted through the parliament could take effect from February at the earliest.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

For the majority of us who are vaccinated, we want the freedom to not have to worry about the unvaccinated making us sick.

For those of us who are vaccinated, we want people to have the freedom of choice.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

For the majority of us who are vaccinated, we want the freedom to not have to worry about the unvaccinated making us sick.

I am vaccinated, the problem with me is that regardless of my status, I am not segregated and I am seeing all the nonsense behind those decisions. Your assumption was that my post was written that way because I was the minority, rather, regardless of which side I am on, I am conscious enough to see what's happening and that's hard not to see.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

For the majority of us who are vaccinated, we want the freedom to not have to worry about the unvaccinated making us sick.

True, but as ever I'll try to shift the debate from a simple binary.

 

I'd personally rather spend time with a non-vaxxer who uses masks and distancing, than a vaxxer who parties without masks because they think the vaxx has turned them into superman/woman.

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

For those of us who are vaccinated, we want people to have the freedom of choice.

Which you already don't have.  There are soooo many rules and regulations you HAVE to follow.  Hardly freedom of choice.  Try driving around without a helmet.  That was a biggie when I was in California decades ago. 

3 minutes ago, sungod said:

For those of us who are vaccinated, we want people to have the freedom of choice.

Exactly. Anyone who's heard the actual news can quote what's been said: "We're losing patience over unvaccinated." Who are they to say so really? Governments _are not_ authorities, they serve to their societies, unless it's a socialist government. Clear as day.

2 minutes ago, blackprince said:

True, but as ever I'll try to shift the debate from a simple binary.

 

I'd personally rather spend time with a non-vaxxer who uses masks and distancing, than a vaxxer who parties without masks because they think the vaxx has turned them into superman/woman.

Understood.  But sadly, many non-vaxxers don't wear masks and don't social distance.  As shown by the increase in cases globally.

 

I'm vaxxed and still wear a mask when appropriate and social distance when appropriate.

Just now, JaydenL said:

Exactly. Anyone who's heard the actual news can quote what's been said: "We're losing patience over unvaccinated." Who are they to say so really? Governments _are not_ authorities, they serve to their societies, unless it's a socialist government. Clear as day.

Agreed!  And their societies are mostly vaccinated.  So, they're serving their society!  The minority who refuse the vaccine are the targets of this.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed!  And their societies are mostly vaccinated.  So, they're serving their society!  The minority who refuse the vaccine are the targets of this.

I believe this is a flawed logic. Citizenship determines that, and the right to vote and elect one's government depends on their citizenship. Not the vaccination status. As a result, governments serve their voters who elected them, and not those who are vaccinated and/or not.

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Which you already don't have.  There are soooo many rules and regulations you HAVE to follow.  Hardly freedom of choice.  Try driving around without a helmet.  That was a biggie when I was in California decades ago. 

There is a choice there, dont ride a bike if you dont want to wear a helmet.

Just now, sungod said:

There is a choice there, dont ride a bike if you dont want to wear a helmet.

Don't go out into public if you don't want to get vaccinated.

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Understood.  But sadly, many non-vaxxers don't wear masks and don't social distance.  As shown by the increase in cases globally.

I've countered this point many times. In fact you "liked" a post of mine yesterday that explains that non vaxx doesn't explain the surge in the UK (as c90% are vaxxed). The same case could be made for other vaxxed countries.

 

Outside of the developed world, the biggest problem is the availability of vaccines, not the rejection of them, so I have to say your reference to "global" cases is as misleading as the statements of the anti-vaxxers that you deride (hope that doesn't sound too harsh).

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Don't go out into public if you don't want to get vaccinated.

Don't breathe if you don't want to be infected?..

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Don't go out into public if you don't want to get vaccinated.

Back to my first post, WW2 was about freedom, now you are incarcerating people. 

 

Bottom line, if you are vaxxed then you have little to worry about, people should stop being scared of their own shadows and get on with life.

1 minute ago, blackprince said:

I've countered this point many times. In fact you "liked" a post of mine yesterday that explains that non vaxx doesn't explain the surge in the UK (as c90% are vaxxed). The same case could be made for other vaxxed countries.

 

Outside of the developed world, the biggest problem is the availability of vaccines, not the rejection of them, so I have to say your reference to "global" cases is as misleading as the statements of anti-vaxxers than you deride (hope that doesn't sound too harsh).

Great post. I think there's a huge misunderstanding, since whenever someone opposes this agenda is called an anti-vaxxer, regarding of their status. I don't know many people who simply oppose such plans who are anti-vaxxers, they just, same as me, state that there must be the right to choose what to do with our own bodies and health, there is an extremely low population of people who are actual "anti-vaxxers", in reality, people who see the ridiculous development of the economic world nowadays and criticize the potential mandates to vaccinate are just written off as "anti-vaxxers" to create even more hate, that's all.

4 minutes ago, blackprince said:

I've countered this point many times. In fact you "liked" a post of mine yesterday that explains that non vaxx doesn't explain the surge in the UK (as c90% are vaxxed). The same case could be made for other vaxxed countries.

 

Outside of the developed world, the biggest problem is the availability of vaccines, not the rejection of them, so I have to say your reference to "global" cases is as misleading as the statements of the anti-vaxxers that you deride (hope that doesn't sound too harsh).

Actually, in SA, they're returning vaccines because of vaccine hesitancy.  All because of misinformation.  Which is the same problem in the US.  I'm not aware of what's going on in the UK. 

3 hours ago, JaydenL said:

Great post. I think there's a huge misunderstanding, since whenever someone opposes this agenda is called an anti-vaxxer, regarding of their status. I don't know many people who simply oppose such plans who are anti-vaxxers, they just, same as me, state that there must be the right to choose what to do with our own bodies and health, there is an extremely low population of people who are actual "anti-vaxxers", in reality, people who see the ridiculous development of the economic world nowadays and criticize the potential mandates to vaccinate are just written off as "anti-vaxxers" to create even more hate, that's all.

I 100% agree you should decide what you want to do with your body and health, but here's the kicker, when you don't get vaccinated you are also deciding what happens to other people's bodies.  

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not true!  If you are vaxxed, you can still get infected, end up in the hospital with a tube jammed down your throat or die.  Though your odds are 10X++ better of this not happening than those who are unvaccinated.

 

This new variant cropped up, probably, in an individual who wasn't vaccinated.  The more who are jabbed, the less likely we'll get new variants.  Understand?  And the sooner life will return to "normal".

No i dont understand 'probably' .

 

So its also quite 'probable' it cropped up in someone who was vaccinated?

 

This is just paranoia............

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

This new variant cropped up, probably, in an individual who wasn't vaccinated.  The more who are jabbed, the less likely we'll get new variants.  Understand?  And the sooner life will return to "normal".

I would think the opposite ...... the more people vaccinated, the more the virus will mutate to get around the vaccines.

Just now, sungod said:

No i dont understand 'probably' .

 

So its also quite 'probable' it cropped up in someone who was vaccinated?

 

This is just paranoia............

The speculation among researchers is that for the virus to get as many mutations as is seen in Omicron is that it most likely arose in a person with a severely compromised immune system.  The speculation is that it was someone with HIV/AIDS.  Most people would have enough immunity to not allow the virus this much of an opportunity to mutate. 

 

But, yes, it is speculation.

 

4 minutes ago, sungod said:

No i dont understand 'probably' .

 

So its also quite 'probable' it cropped up in someone who was vaccinated?

 

This is just paranoia............

This is what scientists are saying.  They don't know where it originally came from, but this is what they think.  Hardly paranoia.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/lifestyle/health/covid-what-we-know-about-the-omicron-variant-101638246422033.html

 

Professor Francois Balloux, Chair in Computational Biology Systems at University College London, has been quoted as suggesting it's possible that the virus mutated during a chronic infection of a person whose immune system was already weakened by an untreated HIV/Aids infection.

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would think the opposite ...... the more people vaccinated, the more the virus will mutate to get around the vaccines.

That's not the case.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weeds 10-29-21&utm_term=The Weeds

https://www.businessinsider.com/unvaccinated-people-are-variant-factories-disease-expert-says-2021-7

Unvaccinated people don't only risk their own health: Their bodies become 'variant factories'

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

This is what scientists are saying.  They don't know where it originally came from, but this is what they think.  Hardly paranoia.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/lifestyle/health/covid-what-we-know-about-the-omicron-variant-101638246422033.html

 

Professor Francois Balloux, Chair in Computational Biology Systems at University College London, has been quoted as suggesting it's possible that the virus mutated during a chronic infection of a person whose immune system was already weakened by an untreated HIV/Aids infection.

Great other scientists are saying its mostly mild so far.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/23/africa/kenya-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-intl/index.html

 

Kenya's Covid-19 vaccine mandate draws praise and criticism

 

Health Minister Mutahi Kagwe made the announcement on Sunday. Public services affected include schools, transport services, immigration and other state offices, and hotels, bars, restaurants, national parks and wildlife reserves.

1 hour ago, JaydenL said:

First Austria, then Germany. Sounds similar to the beginning of WW2? First give identification signs to the Jews, then eliminate them in those "lockdowns". Same segregation and exactly same creation of hate in our society among our people in order to have clear reasons... This is when conspiracy theories become theories.

Maybe those who don't want to get vaccinated should have a sticker on their forehead: I am an Idiot.

Or would that be unfair of discriminating or racist or something like that?

Darwin will take care of them - good.

 

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

There you go again, we dont know the severity of it, you say that yourself.

But many are saying it's mild.  Which hasn't been proven.  So far, in SA, it's not looking good with cases and hospitalizations skyrocketing.

Nonsense baiting, bickering posts and replies removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1466540670164758530

And yes hospitalization is getting worse… notice that as time goes, more hospitalizations are backfilled. It’s getting worse if you follow the data daily. I’m not trying to sensationalize— but it’s the clear conclusion from the data.

 

This is why: South Africa’s weekly hospital admission counts are back-filled every day as new patient data comes in, so the figure for the week ending Nov 28 has been rising in recent days, from 580 in the data published on the 29th, to 788 in today’s report.

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

But many are saying it's mild.  Which hasn't been proven.  So far, in SA, it's not looking good with cases and hospitalizations skyrocketing.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-south-africa-doctors-see-skyrocketing-cases-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-but-symptoms-mild-in-omicron-hotspot-12484607

 

But symptoms seem to be mild so far thankfully.