'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps the hesitancy fueling would be diminished if the official information was more sincere, more transparent, without withholding all the real figures, without demonizing and censoring opinions and knowledge of the real scientists, without ridiculing other kinds of remedy, etc.   

You mean not ridiculing ivermectin?

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps the hesitancy fueling would be diminished if the official information was more sincere, more transparent, without withholding all the real figures, without demonizing and censoring opinions and knowledge of the real scientists, without ridiculing other kinds of remedy, etc.   

Lies don't get equal time with the truth. If other kinds of medication are proven to work by ANY credible evidence then they deserve not to be ridiculed. Until that happens, the proponents of such treatments who don't post any evidence are risible in the extreme.

[Saanim]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

You mean not ridiculing ivermectin?

Not only. BTW, a ridiculing ivermectin with false reporting, false figures and events that in many cases had to be later quietly debunked - or not at all - does not diminish the hesitancy fueling, does it?  

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps the hesitancy fueling would be diminished if the official information was more sincere, more transparent, without withholding all the real figures, without demonizing and censoring opinions and knowledge of the real scientists, without ridiculing other kinds of remedy, etc.   

A fine example of non-transparency.  It does make one wonder what they are scared of / hiding.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

Not only. BTW, a ridiculing ivermectin with false reporting, false figures and events that in many cases had to be later quietly debunked - or not at all - does not diminish the hesitancy fueling, does it?  

Show where it was debunked or does "quietly" mean it was all done in secret?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

But that's what's fueling the vaccine hesitancy.  Conspiracy theories.  So yes, we do have a right to attack them.  And luckily, they dont last very long here on this forum.

Then again, if a person raises their concerns about getting vaccinated , attacking that person and calling them "liars" and trying to get their post removed and thus silencing their thoughts, would not help in convincing that person to get vaccinated 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, if a person raises their concerns about getting vaccinated , attacking that person and calling them "liars" and trying to get their post removed and thus silencing their thoughts, would not help in convincing that person to get vaccinated 

If they make false claims (lie) in ADDITION to expressing their reluctance then any course of action is justified to hold them to account.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If they make false claims (lie) in ADDITION to expressing their reluctance then any course of action is justified to hold them to account.

Although if the claims they make are true and correct , they may not feel like responding if they get accused of lying . 

[Phoenix Rising]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, if a person raises their concerns about getting vaccinated , attacking that person and calling them "liars" and trying to get their post removed and thus silencing their thoughts, would not help in convincing that person to get vaccinated 

When you say "a person raises their concerns" can you give an example? I have a feeling that's not how I would describe it.

[Phoenix Rising]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although if the claims they make are true and correct , they may not feel like responding if they get accused of lying . 

Again, examples would be nice. What "true and correct" claims have you made that were viciously and unfairly attacked?

Holding my breath here!

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although if the claims they make are true and correct , they may not feel like responding if they get accused of lying . 

The anti vaxers here are on record as having repeatedly posted theories which have been debunked many, many, many times and repeatedly been shown the evidence which contradicts their claims as well as been repeatedly challenged to back up their claims with alternative data. Not one has ever risen to the challenge. Never. It isn't a matter of being shy to respond, if they don't have the guts to put up them they need to shut up.

 

The simple fact is that they choose to post lies and run. Their agenda is political and not based on fact. Utterly reprehensible.

Edited December 7, 2021 by ozimoron

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Again, examples would be nice. What "true and correct" claims have you made that were viciously and unfairly attacked?

Holding my breath here!

I have already posted them in this thread 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have already posted them in this thread 

you forgot to prove them with any credible evidence.

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, if a person raises their concerns about getting vaccinated , attacking that person and calling them "liars" and trying to get their post removed and thus silencing their thoughts, would not help in convincing that person to get vaccinated 

I'm through trying to convince anyone to get vaccinated.  It's scientific fact that unvaccinated people are more likely to catch COVID and die from it.  So it's a survival-of-the fittest sort of thing.  Whether certain people decide to get vaccinated or not....up to them.  The human race will improve as a result....:-)

 

[Overall, in August, according to the tool, unvaccinated people were 6.1 times more likely than fully vaccinated people to test positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times more likely to die from it.]

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95119

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I'm through trying to convince anyone to get vaccinated.  It's scientific fact that unvaccinated people are more likely to catch COVID and die from it.  So it's a survival-of-the fittest sort of thing.  Whether certain people decide to get vaccinated or not....up to them.  The human race will improve as a result....:-)

 

[Overall, in August, according to the tool, unvaccinated people were 6.1 times more likely than fully vaccinated people to test positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times more likely to die from it.]

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95119

 

Nobody would care if it was just them. The latest variant presumably came from Africa where there is major vaccine hesitancy which can only be attributed to anti vax propaganda. The same is true of US red states. And the Australian indigenous population where these deplorables are spreading indigenous language propaganda.

Edited December 7, 2021 by ozimoron

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I'm through trying to convince anyone to get vaccinated.  It's scientific fact that unvaccinated people are more likely to catch COVID and die from it.  So it's a survival-of-the fittest sort of thing.  Whether certain people decide to get vaccinated or not....up to them.  The human race will improve as a result....:-)

 

[Overall, in August, according to the tool, unvaccinated people were 6.1 times more likely than fully vaccinated people to test positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times more likely to die from it.]

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95119

 

Then again, vaccinated people have the possibility of having adverse effects from the vaccination , whilst unvaccinated people have no risk of suffering from having adverse effects from the vaccination 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, vaccinated people have the possibility of having adverse effects from the vaccination , whilst unvaccinated people have no risk of suffering from having adverse effects from the vaccination 

The unvaxxed may even get an award. How good is that?

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

And the Australian indigenous population where these deplorables are spreading indigenous language propaganda.

This sounds a bit like racism to me.

[Jeffr2]

39 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Not only. BTW, a ridiculing ivermectin with false reporting, false figures and events that in many cases had to be later quietly debunked - or not at all - does not diminish the hesitancy fueling, does it?  

Ivermectin  was proven not to work.  And actually hurt many as they tried to dose themselves.  Sometimes with the drug meant for horses!  Not very smart people...and they deserved to be ridiculed.

 

This drug was pushed by the fake news media guy Joe Rogan.  Sad so many fall for his lies and conspiracy theories.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

This sounds a bit like racism to me.

The deplorables aren't the indigenous population.

[Jeffr2]

37 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, if a person raises their concerns about getting vaccinated , attacking that person and calling them "liars" and trying to get their post removed and thus silencing their thoughts, would not help in convincing that person to get vaccinated 

Concerns are one thing and can normally be addressed by their doc.  Many anti vaxxers come up with crazy reasons for not getting the jab.  Pointing to conspiracy theories.  Which, are lies.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Then again, vaccinated people have the possibility of having adverse effects from the vaccination , whilst unvaccinated people have no risk of suffering from having adverse effects from the vaccination 

True.  But vaccinated people won't end up in the hospital with a tube jammed down their throat, or die, in such numbers are the unvaccinated will.  Plus, due to the latter, this pandemic is extending.  Time go get tough with them.  Period.

 

BTW.  Very few have had adverse effects from the jabs.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Concerns are one thing and can normally be addressed by their doc.  Many anti vaxxers come up with crazy reasons for not getting the jab.  Pointing to conspiracy theories.  Which, are lies.

Not wanting to die of a heart attack after getting a vaccination , seems quite a reasonable reason for not wanting the vaccination, to me .

   I don't consider that to be "crazy" 

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not wanting to die of a heart attack after getting a vaccination , seems quite a reasonable reason for not wanting the vaccination, to me .

   I don't consider that to be "crazy" 

Your odds of dying from a heart attack are minuscule in comparison to your odds dying from the virus.  Or, ending up in the hospital and potentially suffering from long covid.   No comparison. 

 

I'm guessing you're getting this info about heart attacks from social media?  YouTube perhaps? LOL

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Your odds of dying from a heart attack are minuscule in comparison to your odds dying from the virus.  Or, ending up in the hospital and potentially suffering from long covid.   No comparison. 

 

I'm guessing you're getting this info about heart attacks from social media?  YouTube perhaps? LOL

I was about to reply to that post, and agree with what you have said, and I may add that investigation into the minuscule numbers of people who have died after a vaccination, invariably uncovers other root causes.

 

Maybe there is something that we are overlooking here; that the people who fight against vaccination are not just those who believe the conspiracy theories/computer chip/other nonsense about the vaccines, but are just too scared to get vaccinated because they don't like a little pain!

 

They could explain why a lot of them latch onto the conspiracy theories, because it provides cover for their fear of a little pain!

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Concerns are one thing and can normally be addressed by their doc.  Many anti vaxxers come up with crazy reasons for not getting the jab.  Pointing to conspiracy theories.  Which, are lies.

How about 1 rational reason.  It's my body, and I'll decide what gets injected into it.

 

Prefer not to inject something into my body that has no 'long term effect' research.  Having a 0.03% chance of dying from covid in Thailand (300 / per million) is NOT scary enough for me.

 

Being unvax'd is equal to being vax'd, as both can get & transmit the virus, so no disadvantage to anyone other than myself by being unvax'd.  As the virus is not prejudice.

Edited December 7, 2021 by KhunLA

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

I was about to reply to that post, and agree with what you have said, and I may add that investigation into the minuscule numbers of people who have died after a vaccination, invariably uncovers other root causes.

 

Maybe there is something that we are overlooking here; that the people who fight against vaccination are not just those who believe the conspiracy theories/computer chip/other nonsense about the vaccines, but are just too scared to get vaccinated because they don't like a little pain!

 

They could explain why a lot of them latch onto the conspiracy theories, because it provides cover for their fear of a little pain!

I've got a friend who started talking about heart attacks from the vaccine.  I asked him for info on this.  He sent me a dodgy YouTube video! ????

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

How about 1 rational reason.  It's my body, and I'll decide what gets injected into it.

 

Prefer not to inject something into my body that has no 'long term effect' research.  Was rushed to market and approved in most countries for 'emergency use only' and feel having a 0.03% chance of dying from covid in Thailand (<300 / per million) is NOT an emergency.

 

Being unvax'd is equal to being vax'd, as both can get & transmit the virus, so no disadvantage to anyone other than myself by being unvax'd.  As the virus is not prejudice.

Luckily, that argument is going away with mandates.  You seem to have fallen for the fake news/conspiracy theories.

 

That 0.03% is a fallacy.  But widely used by anti vaxxers.

 

You're 100% wrong about unvaxxed being equal to vaxxed.  Don't post misinformation.  Its against forum rules, luckily.

[blackprince]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not wanting to die of a heart attack after getting a vaccination , seems quite a reasonable reason for not wanting the vaccination, to me .

   I don't consider that to be "crazy" 

 Harvard Medical School doesn't think you're crazy either Mac (Nov 1 2021):

 

"In one of the largest studies of its kind to date, researchers found strong evidence that heart attack and stroke risk rises sharply in the weeks following a COVID-19 diagnosis."

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/covid-19-diagnosis-raises-risk-of-heart-attack-stroke

 

PS Mick McManus v Johnny Kwango, London, late 60s with my mum, she loved the wrestling!

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

How about 1 rational reason.  It's my body, and I'll decide what gets injected into it.

 

Prefer not to inject something into my body that has no 'long term effect' research.  Was rushed to market and approved in most countries for 'emergency use only' and feel having a 0.03% chance of dying from covid in Thailand (<300 / per million) is NOT an emergency.

 

Being unvax'd is equal to being vax'd, as both can get & transmit the virus, so no disadvantage to anyone other than myself by being unvax'd.  As the virus is not prejudice.

The emergency use caveat has long since been withdrawn and it is now against forum rules to claim that the vaccines are only for emergency use. Just a heads up, I suggest you edit your post to remove that reference.