Extension of stay : OA Visa

[OJAS]

On 12/15/2021 at 11:38 AM, ubonjoe said:

The current corvid 19 insurance available for entry to the country is available to the age of 99 and it would only needs to be valid for the length of stay they get on entry.

The options for those aged 75+ needing to apply for such insurance are, however, extremely limited. For those aged between 75 and 79, a 30-day WorldTrips Atlas Travel Insurance policy, for example, would provide them with 100,000 USD cover at a premium cost of 285.60 USD. But anyone aged 80+ would be completely out of luck as far as that particular policy was concerned.

 

https://quote.worldtrips.com/atlastravel/?referid=28083&language=en-US

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

@ubonjoe

So, if I read this correctly someone extending, from an OA retirement, in January 2022 will only need to pay for the 40/400 insurance, which will cover them until Jan 2023 when they will then  need to obtain the 3M baht insurance ?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

@ubonjoe

So, if I read this correctly someone extending, from an OA retirement, in January 2022 will only need to pay for the 40/400 insurance, which will cover them until Jan 2023 when they will then  need to obtain the 3M baht insurance ?

That is correct until September 1st of 2020. After that day it will be the $100.000 insurance.

[pablo el sueco]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is correct until September 1st of 2020. After that day it will be the $100.000 insurance.

My next (and 16th consecutive) OA retirement extension will occur after September 1, 2022.  I am a klutz when it comes to understanding the complicated realm of medical insurance, and I have five questions about the way the new requirements in the "scheme" will affect me.

1. Does the "scheme" for 2022 and beyond still have no provision for immigration to accept foreign coverage in lieu of the required TGIA plans?
2. Does anyone know the cheapest available plan in the "scheme" for 2022 and beyond for each age-group?  I shall need to start amending my budget to accommodate the increased premium costs.
3. Premium quotes are always based on age.  If I am 75 years old when I start the coverage, but I shall turn 76 years old during the course of the coverage-year, will I pay the premium amount for a 75-year-old, or the premium amount for a 76-year-old?
4. Do the plans in the "scheme" increase premium amounts only at the announced changes in age; or do they also increase premium amounts when the insurance company has to pay a claim on the policy?
5. Can coverage in the "scheme" jeopardize or adversely affect  the working of my foreign insurance coverage?

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

My next (and 16th consecutive) OA retirement extension will occur after September 1, 2022.  I am a klutz when it comes to understanding the complicated realm of medical insurance, and I have five questions about the way the new requirements in the "scheme" will affect me.

I cannot answer any of you questions with any certainty since their is no info about it now.

1. That was mentioned when the new insurance was first mentioned but I have seen nothing about what immigration will require or accept.

Edit: The best suggestion I can give is to leave the country without a re-entry permit and enter visa exempt to apply for a non-o visa and a new extension based upon retirement that would eliminate the insurance requirement.

[DrPhibes]

On 12/15/2021 at 11:38 AM, ubonjoe said:

The current corvid 19 insurance available for entry to the country is available to the age of 99 and it would only needs to be valid for the length of stay they get on entry.

Hi Joe, very interesting.  About to get my Non-O marriage extension stamp and then leave for the US 2 weeks later for about 4 months with a re-entry permit in my hand.  Sounds like I can cancel my C-19 specific insurance while in the US and then start it up again once I get back.  Have other expense Ins in the US but they will not give a certificate for amount of coverage (unlimited passed my deductible) and that it specifically covers C-19 (covers everything but experimental treatment) and don't cover overseas unless on deaths door.  Sound about right to you?  Thanks as always!

[JimGant]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:12 AM, pablo el sueco said:

Premium quotes are always based on age.  If I am 75 years old when I start the coverage, but I shall turn 76 years old during the course of the coverage-year, will I pay the premium amount for a 75-year-old, or the premium amount for a 76-year-old?

Based on my experience with LMG, my policy began when I was aged 75 years, 8 months old. My premium was for age 75, no pro rating into my age76. Renewed at age 76, 8 months -- paid only the advertised premium for age 76.

 

Quote

Do the plans in the "scheme" increase premium amounts only at the announced changes in age; or do they also increase premium amounts when the insurance company has to pay a claim on the policy?

LMG, in their policy boilerplate, indicated advertised premium rates are subject to increase based on the policy's previous year's claims status, up to twice the advertised rate, to outright denial of renewal.

 

Quote

Can coverage in the "scheme" jeopardize or adversely affect  the working of my foreign insurance coverage?

In some cases, yes. My Tricare (US military) policy is payer of last resort, meaning, if I have any other policies, I must file first with them, then provide the results to Tricare before they'll assess their responsibility.

[Boomer6969]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:12 AM, pablo el sueco said:

Does anyone know the cheapest available plan in the "scheme" for 2022 and beyond for each age-group?  I shall need to start amending my budget to accommodate the increased premium costs.

465680444_Brochure-LongStayVISA100KUSD.pdfNEW.pdf

[KannikaP]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:56 PM, OJAS said:

The options for those aged 75+ needing to apply for such insurance are, however, extremely limited. For those aged between 75 and 79, a 30-day WorldTrips Atlas Travel Insurance policy, for example, would provide them with 100,000 USD cover at a premium cost of 285.60 USD. But anyone aged 80+ would be completely out of luck as far as that particular policy was concerned.

 

https://quote.worldtrips.com/atlastravel/?referid=28083&language=en-US

 

 

A 'travel insurance policy' would not pay out if the company know that you are here for over a certain length of time, maybe 180 days.

[pablo el sueco]

@JimGant and @Boomer6969  Thank you both for your helpful answers to my questions.  You provided precisely the information I needed.

 

 

[Boomer6969]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

In some cases, yes. My Tricare (US military) policy is payer of last resort, meaning, if I have any other policies, I must file first with them, then provide the results to Tricare before they'll assess their responsibility.

I am in a similar case, but my present plan performs up to my best expectations. So, if I had to get that LMG plan with 1 MTHB deductible, I'd just pay my premiums and forget it in some drawers. Never use it, would be the key here.

[pablo el sueco]

1 hour ago, Boomer6969 said:

I am in a similar case, but my present plan performs up to my best expectations. So, if I had to get that LMG plan with 1 MTHB deductible, I'd just pay my premiums and forget it in some drawers. Never use it, would be the key here.

 

Same here.  I have global coverage on a policy paid for by my pension provider.  I am inclined to take the approach you described -- pay the LMG premium every year and never file a claim on it.

 

However, when my pension plan asks whether I have competing coverage, as they do when a claim is filed, I think I have to tell the truth about having the LMG coverage.  Were they to discover that I lied to them on a claim form, I fear they might cancel my policy.

[JimGant]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:59 PM, ubonjoe said:

On 12/14/2021 at 5:00 PM, Mamasun said:

does that mean i will need to have an insurance (400000/40000) until 1 september and then switch for a 3000000 one ?

No

You will only need the one year 400/40k baht insurance valid for a year.

Need some clarification. Someone a month or so ago reported that LMG Insurance no longer offers the 40/400k OA extension policy, but now only offers the one year 3Million covid policy. If true, this suggests LMG will not offer split policies, so now it will only offer the the one year 3M Covid policy if such policy extends past Sept 1, 2022 -- when the 3M Covid coverage is slated to take effect.

 

Anyone out there encountered this when recently trying to renew their OA retirement extension LMG policy? Or any of the other 13 TGIA OA insurance companies? Seems unfair to charge for the 3M Covid coverage for those many months prior to Sept 1st, when it's not yet required (premiums increase fourfold). But, of course, the whole TGIA mafia requirement is corrupt er, unfair, so not much new here.

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Need some clarification. Someone a month or so ago reported that LMG Insurance no longer offers the 40/400k OA extension policy, but now only offers the one year 3Million covid policy. If true, this suggests LMG will not offer split policies, so now it will only offer the the one year 3M Covid policy if such policy extends past Sept 1, 2022 -- when the 3M Covid coverage is slated to take effect.

 

Anyone out there encountered this when recently trying to renew their OA retirement extension LMG policy? Or any of the other 13 TGIA OA insurance companies? Seems unfair to charge for the 3M Covid coverage for those many months prior to Sept 1st, when it's not yet required (premiums increase fourfold). But, of course, the whole TGIA mafia requirement is corrupt er, unfair, so not much new here.

A friend of mine renewed his retirement extension, from an OA , yesterday at Sisaket IO , he too was concerned that he would be forced to get the 3M baht coverage but his 40/400k insurance policy , with a 200k deductible, from LMG was accepted without question.

 

If you need to contact LMG use this person, Miss Kannika Tepbootrdee:

[email protected]

My friend and myself both use her info and she is excellent.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

but his 40/400k insurance policy , with a 200k deductible, from LMG was accepted without question.

Ah, so LMG is still renewing the 40/400k policies. Good news.

[roobaa01]

Gday 

My understanding if one let his previous non-oa  become invalid by leaving the country. Then apply for a new non-o Single entry retirement in ones home country it is required to present a health 400k/40 k plus usd 50 k covid coverage.

 

Wbr

Roobaa01

[Andrew Dwyer]

5 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

Gday 

My understanding if one let his previous non-oa  become invalid by leaving the country. Then apply for a new non-o Single entry retirement in ones home country it is required to present a health 400k/40 k plus usd 50 k covid coverage.

 

Wbr

Roobaa01

Yes, leave the country without obtaining a re entry permit will invalidate your OA extension but returning visa exempt and applying for a non O visa ( and subsequent extension of ) in Thailand would be the preferred route to avoid the  40/400 k insurance.

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

My understanding if one let his previous non-oa  become invalid by leaving the country. Then apply for a new non-o Single entry retirement in ones home country it is required to present a health 400k/40 k plus usd 50 k covid coverage.

The insurance only has to be valid for the 90 days that your visa will allow.

You cans also enter visa exempt and then apply for a non-o visa at immigration that does not require any insurance.

[pablo el sueco]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:38 PM, ubonjoe said:

On September 1st of 2022 it will increase to the new requirement of $100,000 or 3 million baht of coverage.

According to a news article published two days ago, a Ministry of Health memorandum has announced a significant new provision to be effective October 1, 2022.  As I understand the reporting, O/A retirees must be able to obtain complete coverage under the TGIA scheme; those whose TGIA insurance coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions will not be able to satisfy this requirement.

 

I think this would affect me since my current LMG coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions, and I assume the same limits will be applied if I tried to convert my 400,000 baht policy to a 3 million baht policy later this year.  I need to know how to prepare for this eventuality.

 

The news article states that if an O/A retiree cannot obtain comprehensive coverage, he will be allowed to self-insure or provide proof of adequate foreign insurance coverage in Thailand.  The simplest way to accomplish this would be to prove deposits of 3,800,000 baht in Thai bank accounts (3,000,000 for the self-insurance and 800,000 for the extension requirement).  But there are other permissible avenues which include deposits in foreign banks, foreign insurance such as Tricare that provides comprehensive coverage in Thailand, and property ownership.  The logistics involved in proving foreign deposits and foreign insurance are likely to be quite complex.

 

For those whose next extension of stay is due this year, there is not much time to prepare, and we need to know the specifics surrounding this new provision.

[tonray]

8 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

According to a news article published two days ago, a Ministry of Health memorandum has announced a significant new provision to be effective October 1, 2022.  As I understand the reporting, O/A retirees must be able to obtain complete coverage under the TGIA scheme; those whose TGIA insurance coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions will not be able to satisfy this requirement.

 

I think this would affect me since my current LMG coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions, and I assume the same limits will be applied if I tried to convert my 400,000 baht policy to a 3 million baht policy later this year.  I need to know how to prepare for this eventuality.

 

The news article states that if an O/A retiree cannot obtain comprehensive coverage, he will be allowed to self-insure or provide proof of adequate foreign insurance coverage in Thailand.  The simplest way to accomplish this would be to prove deposits of 3,800,000 baht in Thai bank accounts (3,000,000 for the self-insurance and 800,000 for the extension requirement).  But there are other permissible avenues which include deposits in foreign banks, foreign insurance such as Tricare that provides comprehensive coverage in Thailand, and property ownership.  The logistics involved in proving foreign deposits and foreign insurance are likely to be quite complex.

 

For those whose next extension of stay is due this year, there is not much time to prepare, and we need to know the specifics surrounding this new provision.

You are overthinking this. They will not be reading your policy to determine if you have preexisting conditions. 

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

According to a news article published two days ago, a Ministry of Health memorandum has announced a significant new provision to be effective October 1, 2022. 

The changes I was referring to were done in October of 2021. I have not seen any changes since then.

The latest info is here on the TGiA website. https://longstay.tgia.org/guidelineoa

You might want to consider doing what many people have done or plan on doing is to get rid of your OA visa entry by changing it to a non-o visa. The means leaving the country's without a re-entry permit and entering visa exempt so the can apply for a non-o visa at immigration and then a new one year extension.

 

[pablo el sueco]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, tonray said:

They will not be reading your policy to determine if you have preexisting conditions. 

I agree.  I believe they will, instead, search for my record on the database maintained by the TGIA insurers, to see if I've been issued a policy that satisfies requirements.  If comprehensive coverage is required, and my policy does not provide coverage for pre-existing conditions, then my policy would be missing from the database -- and my extension would be denied unless I can self-insure.

[pablo el sueco]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:18 AM, ubonjoe said:

The changes I was referring to were done in October of 2021. I have not seen any changes since then.

The latest info is here on the TGiA website. https://longstay.tgia.org/guidelineoa

You might want to consider doing what many people have done or plan on doing is to get rid of your OA visa entry by changing it to a non-o visa. The means leaving the country's without a re-entry permit and entering visa exempt so the can apply for a non-o visa at immigration and then a new one year extension.

So, it appears the news article I read is reporting a proposed policy change as though it were established fact.  Regardless, based on my reading of that article, I have already begun to prepare for self-insuring.  If I wait until this change is  announced in the official publications, I may not have enough time to prepare.  Any O/A retiree with pre-existing health conditions, and planning to apply for an extension after 1 October this year, should be aware of these possible rule changes in plenty of time to prepare.

I understand the procedure involved in getting rid of my O/A and applying for non-O.  I just think it will be far simpler to self-insure and remain O/A if that is going to be permitted.

[pablo el sueco]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:36 AM, pablo el sueco said:

According to a news article published two days ago, a Ministry of Health memorandum has announced a significant new provision to be effective October 1, 2022.  As I understand the reporting, O/A retirees must be able to obtain complete coverage under the TGIA scheme; those whose TGIA insurance coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions will not be able to satisfy this requirement.

 

I think this would affect me since my current LMG coverage is limited due to pre-existing conditions, and I assume the same limits will be applied if I tried to convert my 400,000 baht policy to a 3 million baht policy later this year.  I need to know how to prepare for this eventuality.

 

The news article states that if an O/A retiree cannot obtain comprehensive coverage, he will be allowed to self-insure or provide proof of adequate foreign insurance coverage in Thailand.  The simplest way to accomplish this would be to prove deposits of 3,800,000 baht in Thai bank accounts (3,000,000 for the self-insurance and 800,000 for the extension requirement).  But there are other permissible avenues which include deposits in foreign banks, foreign insurance such as Tricare that provides comprehensive coverage in Thailand, and property ownership.  The logistics involved in proving foreign deposits and foreign insurance are likely to be quite complex.

 

For those whose next extension of stay is due this year, there is not much time to prepare, and we need to know the specifics surrounding this new provision.

In another thread, @ubonjoe posted a link to RTP-Order-No.654-2564-1-1 dated December 27, 2021.  Here is that link https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=865656&key=f655ef0f2aed6f222098efa9db805511

 

Paragraph (6.3) of this Order appears to confirm that the O/A retiree seeking an extension of stay must be FULLY insured for 3,000,000 baht otherwise the retiree can self-insure with bank deposits totalling 3,000,000 baht.  To take advantage of this provision, however, the insurance company must certify that the retiree cannot be fully insured.  Since the insurance I obtained for my previous 2 extensions did not cover pre-existing conditions, I have requested my insurance company to send me a certification of partially denying coverage.   I have yet to receive a response from the insurance company.

 

If anyone else has been able to obtain such certification that was acceptable to Immigration, please post details.  If my insurance company stonewalls me in this, I will contact immigration to see whether the pdf of my insurance policy which itemizes the exclusions will be acceptable (though I fear it will not, ASEANNOW members have mentioned before that Immigration does not read insurance policies).