Effectiveness of Pfizer vaccine against Omicron plummets, says Thai doctor - Sinovac study awaited

[mrfill]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

How many have died? The governments don't seem to release this info. It's in 89 countries so the death rate is still 1 ???

UK figure released 20 hours ago says 12 deaths and over 37000 infected

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/confirmed-uk-omicron-cases-rise-25738207

[Bundooman]

They all want their 5 minutes of fame and nonsense, don't they?

I was only reading today in UK news that the Pfizer vaccine is more than capable of dealing with the Omicron strain. 

I'd rather believe UK news that some Thai 'expert'!

I had Pfizer and am happy about it.

And happy to out my trust in it over any Chinese vaccine - any day!

Who cares what every Tom, Dick and Harry think in the land of smiles. think anyway?

 

 

 

[Sunderland]

Emergency vaccine = neverending boosters 

 

Come on you need a 3rd, 4th booster.

 

What do you mean some people in developing countries haven't even had a 1st shot? What do you mean they are not getting sick and dying? Hush! 

 

Boost! Boost! You need more of this emergency "vaccine".

 

What do you mean colds,. fevers and flu are less common than 3 years ago? Hush!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

This is a study from China itself

 

Sinopharm COVID-19 booster weaker against Omicron - study

 

BEIJING, Dec 20 (Reuters) - A COVID-19 booster shot produced by China's Sinopharm had "significantly lower" neutralising activity against the Omicron variant, Chinese researchers said in a paper, although they added the vaccine's efficacy against Omicron remained unclear.

 

The study - conducted by researchers from Shanghai Jiao Tong University and a Shanghai-based lab specializing in respiratory infectious diseases - compared the activity of Sinopharm's booster vaccine against an older coronavirus strainfrom Wuhan.

 

The neutralising antibody activity of a Sinopharm BBIBP-CorV booster against Omicron showed a 20.1-fold reduction, compared with its activity against a Wuhan strain, according to the paper published on Saturday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sinopharm-covid-19-booster-weaker-against-omicron-study-2021-12-20/

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, John Drake said:

Originally vaccinated with two shots in June. Got my third shot on 30 September. Going to need this every three or four months? Every other month? Or go through the entire thing again when they retool for every new variation? I do not want to spend the rest of my life organizing everything around the next round of Covid shots. The world will be in lockdown for ever. 

When I was in the RAF I had to have every vaccination renewed on a regular basis.

I can only assume that you would be ok if the military were unavailable in a crisis because they were short staffed due to infection.

[mikebell]

I've had two Pfizer jabs (Pattaya Central) - last one 09/09/21.  Anyone know how soon/where a booster is available?  

[sezze]

Was there not a person who said that the Covid virus did just slid of Thai people , not even touching them .

BTW yes vaccines for regular covid arent working as good for omicron as it used to be for "normal" covid. We all know that . I got my nr 3 planned this wednesday , and i expect nr 4 somewhere in summertime ( adapted version) .

Virus change , covid is still new but we do follow it very hard , all countries , in fact everything else is come to a standstill . Take care and watch out , before you know its on your doorstep ... but also , life is returning to normal , it is still a long way and will be but we are seeing light at the end of the tunnel .

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, mikebell said:

I've had two Pfizer jabs (Pattaya Central) - last one 09/09/21.  Anyone know how soon/where a booster is available?  

We were there on the same day..... no real information is around yet. Like you (probably) I read of a guy getting one at the Stadium, but I would prefer something better organized, like our first ones were. Watch this space.

[placnx]

20 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

But, as far as I am aware, you just can't go around willy nilly and produce vaccines without the explicit go ahead from the patent holder of the vaccine, so if Pfizer & Moderna have not given said permission it's a no go.

I am not talking about the WTO vaccine waiver. Rather, a project of the US, UK, EU, Japan, and some others to engage with Pfizer & BioNTech, Moderna, to produce much more vaccine in government-constructed facilities overseen by those companies. The idea is to have sufficient production capacity in each country (or in EU) including existing capacity to cover their whole populations in a month with boosters. The jabs would begin right after the 100 day lag for creating and testing the updated vaccine. To the extent that the entire population could not be jabbed in the initial month, the balance would be exported. The follow on would be vaccinating the world ASAP. There is of course more to the story. A lot of countries in Africa have still not developed the medical infrastructure to administer these vaccines outside major cities, so they need a lot of technical assistance to prepare. Try googling PEPVAR.

[Golden Triangle]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

I am not talking about the WTO vaccine waiver. Rather, a project of the US, UK, EU, Japan, and some others to engage with Pfizer & BioNTech, Moderna, to produce much more vaccine in government-constructed facilities overseen by those companies. The idea is to have sufficient production capacity in each country (or in EU) including existing capacity to cover their whole populations in a month with boosters. The jabs would begin right after the 100 day lag for creating and testing the updated vaccine. To the extent that the entire population could not be jabbed in the initial month, the balance would be exported. The follow on would be vaccinating the world ASAP. There is of course more to the story. A lot of countries in Africa have still not developed the medical infrastructure to administer these vaccines outside major cities, so they need a lot of technical assistance to prepare. Try googling PEPVAR.

If you had stated this originally then it would not have been commented on by me, but you didn't did you.

[placnx]

26 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

If you had stated this originally then it would not have been commented on by me, but you didn't did you.

I have been posting this idea now and then since April I guess, so I'm a bit tired of repeating myself. Sorry.

[placnx]

19 hours ago, rwill said:

I posted this in another thread.  But there seems to be good news if you do have a breakthrough infection.

 

Breakthrough Infections May Lead to 'Super Immunity' From COVID: Study (msn.com)

Here's the study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33948601/

This is another matter, i.e. people who get vaccinated after an infection have really good immunity thereafter. If you have a breakthrough infection, I hope that a new variant on Omicron does not happen! (Of course not likely in a single case, but with very many instances of this, there's no guarantee that selection pressure will not occur). 

[mikebell]

22 hours ago, jacko45k said:

We were there on the same day..... no real information is around yet. Like you (probably) I read of a guy getting one at the Stadium, but I would prefer something better organized, like our first ones were. Watch this space.

Thank you.

[sungod]

22 hours ago, sandyf said:

When I was in the RAF I had to have every vaccination renewed on a regular basis.

I can only assume that you would be ok if the military were unavailable in a crisis because they were short staffed due to infection.

The Taliban seemed to have done very well.

[steven100]

of coarse a Thai doctor would say Sinocrap is better     !   

[steven100]

22 hours ago, mikebell said:

I've had two Pfizer jabs (Pattaya Central) - last one 09/09/21.  Anyone know how soon/where a booster is available?  

do as i did,  contact the hospital where you received the doses from, they will inform you.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

do as i did,  contact the hospital where you received the doses from, they will inform you.

What information did you get from yours?

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

What information did you get from yours?

They informed me that a Moderna booster would be available possibly Q1 2022,  and they would contact me to make the appointment when due.

[KhaoYai]

Pfizer have already conducted studies that showed over 90% efficacy against serious illness if double vaccinated and boosted.

[mtls2005]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, webfact said:

A leading Thai doctor went on Facebook

 

On 12/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, webfact said:

Dr Chalernchai Banyaleephan - deputy chair of the senate health committee - claimed

 

Published on Facebook and an appointed Senator. I guess I should be impressed?

 

Given that the regime's entire vaccination strategy relies on Pfizer, he might want to offer up a lot more evidence.

 

I still don't have a good algorithm for avoiding these click bait threads.

 

 

[BangkokReady]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, webfact said:

Many people on online forums this year said they would not have Chinese vaccines like Sinovac or Sinopharm as Pfizer or Moderna were much better. They started getting the former and were willing to wait for the latter and even pay for it.

 

Based on little more than selected studies and the source country where the vax is produced this has been panned by some as "Vaccine Snobbery".

 

Now along has come the fast spreading and mutant laden new variant Omicron. This is changing perceptions. 

Seems to be a strong implication here that people were somehow foolish to choose the highest rated vaccine and now that there is a new variant the Chinese vaccines are superior.  They should probably wait until some actual evidence exists.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I still don't have a good algorithm for avoiding these click bait threads

Perhaps find one when there is one to block emails from Africa, of which I need not a one!

[Guest TerryS123]

22 hours ago, mikebell said:

I've had two Pfizer jabs (Pattaya Central) - last one 09/09/21.  Anyone know how soon/where a booster is available?  

I got a Pfizer booster yesterday at the Bangkok Youth Center. Was already in Bangkok so I just showed up. 

[mtls2005]

33 minutes ago, TerryS123 said:

I got a Pfizer booster yesterday at the Bangkok Youth Center. Was already in Bangkok so I just showed up. 

What was your vaccination history?

 

FYI, 

 

The main City Hall-managed vaccination centre at the Thai-Japanese Youth Centre will close from Dec 29 to Jan 4 during the New Year holidays, said the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA)'s Health Department on Sunday.

 

 

[Guest TerryS123]

37 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

What was your vaccination history?

 

FYI, 

 

The main City Hall-managed vaccination centre at the Thai-Japanese Youth Centre will close from Dec 29 to Jan 4 during the New Year holidays, said the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA)'s Health Department on Sunday.

 

 

Moderna-Moderna in the US over 6 months ago

[fondue zoo]

On the 8th Pfizer updated their site:

 

• Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage) while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers

[garyk]

No problem..

[Cherrytreeview]

•  

Pre-print from South Africa looking at omicron disease severity:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.21.21268116v1.full.pdf

Early assessment of the clinical severity of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant in South Africa

Results

Among hospitalised individuals, after controlling for factors associated with severe disease, the odds of severe disease did not differ between SGTF-infected individuals compared to non-SGTF individuals diagnosed during the same time period (aOR 0.7, 95% CI 0.3-1.4).

Compared to earlier Delta infections, after controlling for factors associated with severe disease, SGTF-infected individuals had a lower odds of severe disease (aOR 0.3, 95% CI 0.2-0.5).

Conclusion

Early analyses suggest a reduced risk of hospitalisation among SGTF-infected individuals when compared to non-SGTF infected individuals in the same time period. Once hospitalised, risk of severe disease was similar for SGTF- and non-SGTF infected individuals, while SGTF-infected individuals had a reduced risk of severe disease when compared to earlier Delta-infected individuals. Some of this reducton is likely a result of high population immunity.

 

So they found that omicron infections had a 80% lower odds of being admitted to hospital compared to non-omicron variants, but did not differ in the risk of severe disease once in hospital.

When compared to delta infections, omicron infections were associated with a 70% lower odds of severe disease.

They make the following point: 

“It is difficult to disentangle the relative contribution of high levels of previous population immunity versus intrinsic lower virulence to the observed lower disease severity. Our finding of no difference in severity in SGTF compared to non-SGTF infected individuals in the same time period, and the lower risk of severity in SGTF compared to earlier Delta infected individuals, suggests that this reduced severity may be in part a result of high levels of population immunity (due to natural infection and/or vaccination)”

So an explanation might be that omicron is able to evade immunity in order to infect a person, but immunity against severe disease is still maintained, therefore producing lots of mild cases. This puts the focus on the nature of a populations immunity to reduce the hospitalisation rate. In the case of SA, high levels of previous infection (up to 70% of the population) might somewhat explain their low peak hospitalisation rate.   

Three doses has been shown to offer 98.8% effectiveness against hospitalisation after 14 days (compared to unvaccinated) vs delta:

 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/monitoring-reports-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

So with relatively high levels of previous infection and very high three dose coverage, a population is likely to have a decent level of protection against hospitalisation

 

This is encouraging early data about the severity of omicron.

UK scientists are apparently going to confirm this with a major study later this week.

It explains why a booster dose is recommended.

[Cherrytreeview]

 

Early indications that England may have peaked already.

 

 

[KannikaP]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:43 AM, ikke1959 said:

The vaccines don't protect you against the virus that is known for months, but only to protect you against death or severe illness.

So why do places insist that you are double jabbed before you can go in?